The full transcript of NDTV's exclusive interview with Evan Williams,
Twitter's Co-Founder at their headquarters in San Francisco.
NDTV:
It's a word on everybody's lips. You can hardly pick up a newspaper or
a magazine without somebody talking about Twitter and we are very
pleased to have its CEO Evan Williams join us.
Evan, first and foremost, why the name Twitter? In hindsight considering how big it has become it sounds almost flippant.
Evan:
We chose the name twitter because it means communication between birds,
which is why birds are also on our branding and our logo. It started as
a very simple way for people to communicate and it seemed like a light
and simple term that reflected the nature of the service.
NDTV:
Light and simple may be how it started but now it is huge, from it's
debut at the music festival South by South West where it helped friends
coordinate their plans, to helping a revolution take place in Iran. But
Twitter isn't making any money yet? The company has no discernible
revenue?
Evan: Before I get to that I think that it is
important to understand what we are trying to do. Twitter is all about
fostering open communication and letting as many people exchange
information very quickly and letting people find out what is going on
about the things they care about. That's what we are trying to do at a
global level. That can happen either via businesses or individuals and
we are still formulating the business part of it. But there are a lot
of opportunities when it comes to helping people find out what is going
on and there are definitely commercial opportunities there as well.
NDTV:
15 minutes before the New York Times had the story on the crash of the
plane into the Hudson on its website, it was on Twitter. Francis from
Bangalore has written in on ndtv.com with a question for you. He says:
Is Twitter altering conventional journalism trends?
Evan:
I think it is another element in the ecosystem of media. It does not
replace journalism. There is a place for deep thought and investigative
journalism and more lengthy pieces. Twitter is limited to 140
characters. But what it does is that it gives people the opportunity to
share information with a large number of people as and when they want.
So the man standing on the banks of the Hudson was able to post a
picture of the plane as it landed and it gives an immediacy and
personal touch to it--that the media could not do immediately. But the
media then picks it up and it becomes a story. So it makes media more
immediate and stories richer.
NDTV: And nothing
illustrates the need for immediacy and a personal connection than what
happened during the Mumbai attacks. Mumbai was a watershed moment for
Twitter, wasn't it?
Evan: Yes, it definitely was. It
represented a milestone for what Twitter could be. In the US, it was
Thanksgiving for us and we have a feature where we can monitor what
everybody is talking about and it was all about Thanksgiving and turkey
and all. But suddenly we were like Mumbai, what? Why? Almost
immediately, as it happened we saw these reports from people on the
ground. So someone who has the honesty and perspective does not have to
be a journalist to share something interesting and bring real time
awareness to a situation that is new and profound.
NDTV: So where does India stand in your plans for Twitter? Do you have a specific plan for India?
Evan:
We have a lot of plans for India. We are really excited about India
right now. From the beginning we sought to create a global information
network and you can't even consider that without considering India, not
only because it is such a huge domestic market there but also because
it is the biggest democracy. There is such a strong youth contingent
and it is so vibrant and our hope is that it connects both people in
India and India with the world with more immediacy and intimacy.
NDTV: And the fact that the growth of phone users is enormous in India - is that part of your strategy?
Evan:
That is a huge part of our strategy. We started with SMS so that is why
tweets are limited to 140 characters. That's why we have simplicity to
tweets. Even though a lot of the growth has come from the web, we have
always had this vision that we wanted to spread Twitter to the weakest
connection in the world. In India with 500 million phone users we can
go from SMS to smart phone and so we think that it is really a big deal.
NDTV: But a lot of this growth in phone users in India is from rural areas. How are you going to get around the language barrier?
Evan:
First of all, people can tweet in any language. And they are all over
the world and we want to make it better. We have launched a few
interfaces and new languages. Last year we launched many new languages.
NDTV: So are we going to get them in Hindi, Malayalam or any other Indian languages?
Evan:
Yes we want to support all those languages eventually. We also want to
use our user base to help translate the site but then there are
probably already people tweeting in all those languages. We just want
to make it a little easier for them to get started.
NDTV:
We have a very famous tweeter in India, the Minister of State for
External Affairs Shashi Tharoor. Are you guys paying him, because he is
a walking talking advertisement for Twitter in India!
Evan:
No, we are not paying Mr Tharoor or any user to use Twitter. We are
very pleased that he is. We are excited that he is. We are very pleased
when politicians and people who have unique perspectives are sharing
that with the world and removing barriers between people in power and
their constituents. I think that is a very powerful idea.
NDTV: You've introduced the concept of showing local trends. When will it be available for India/Indian cities?
Evan:
We are working on that right now but I don't have a date for it. We
just launched the local trends last week so that's why it may take a
little time but I think it will be soon. The local trend is based on
volume. They require a certain amount of volume in the market in order
to generate the trend since they are statistically generated and I
think our user base in India is growing very healthily and so when it
generates volume I think it will catch on.
NDTV: Twitter
recently changed the way you represent "suggested users" but still
there are only 2 Indians on it. One is Shashi Tharoor and the other I
think is Vir Sanghvi. When are you going to add some more and what
about NDTV?
Evan: I cannot promise anything directly
because our suggested users are algorithmically based. Another way we
want to improve the experience in India is to have local suggested
users and to have local trends. If there is somebody who has a broad,
large following then we want to inform more people about them, but it
is not purely editorial.
NDTV: And most start-ups have a lot of Indians. Is that also the case at Twitter too?
Evan:
Absolutely. We have a significant contingent of Indian Twitter
employees and they have all been really enthusiastic to help our
efforts in India, which have just been getting started, but it has been
more enthusiastic than other countries that we have been expanding to.
NDTV: So why is India interesting a place to use Twitter? What is the potential?
Evan:
There are all sorts of uses for Twitter in India similar to the rest of
the world, but we know of specific uses like cricket scores that are
shared over Twitter and a number of users subscribe to that. Knowing
when trains are on time or delayed I am told would work well in India.
That's happening here, and I am told this could be a killer application
in India. People working with humanitarian aid say that in the villages
where it is hard to get access to information, it can be sent out
through Twitter via SMS or a phone. Our goal in expanding globally is
to grow not just where there is the most people but also where we can
really change lives.
NDTV: Being updated on late trains is definitely something we can use in India. You also had Mallika Sherawat here in this office.
Evan:
Yes, Mallika has been an active and interactive user of Twitter for a
while now and she dropped by our office a few months ago. It was quite
fun. She taught us how to do some dancing and showed us a clip of her
upcoming movie. I think everybody really enjoyed it.
NDTV:
Yes, it does look like a fun place to work. All right, a lot of our
viewers wrote in on NDTV.com with questions for you. One of them asks:
what would you like to see Twitter used for most?
Evan:
Well, we try to be pretty agnostic about the specific uses of Twitter.
One of the beauties of Twitter is that it can be used for anything.
People bring their own needs and wants to Twitter and it can fill all
roles. Our mission really is to foster open communication in a way that
can change people's lives. Not just for chatting with people all over
the world but in ways that makes their lives better. It could be a
simple thing like where to get lunch today as you could get a daily
lunch special tweet from your favorite restaurant to getting
information about a global event--going back to Mumbai. Hopefully, it
is all of the above.
NDTV: But when you started Twitter,
you envisioned it for use on mobiles - that's why the 140 character
limit. But now with many people going on Twitter on their computers at
office, does that become redundant?
Evan: We did start
on mobile. Specifically SMS. One of the things we did not necessarily
plan but has become a big success for Twitter is the Application Programming Interface (API) where
third party developers have written hundreds of applications and ways
to develop them on the desk top and the mobile and that has been a big
driver of our success. But mobile is clearly the future in terms of
reaching the most people and being the most use to people in their
daily lives. So we have never strayed from that vision, but have always
held the view that it should be ubiquitous and available however people
want it.
NDTV: When you say ubiquitous and available
the obvious question that comes to mind is China and the problems
Goggle is having in China. Where does Twitter stand on this issue?
Evan:
We are still figuring that out. We have users in China, we have users
who use Twitter in Chinese, but so far we do not have an office in
China or a service in China so they have to decide how the internet
works in their country. We are generally in favor of the open exchange
of global information. We think that that has a positive global impact.
We do not like impediments to that, whether technical or legal,
NDTV:
But Twitter's big moment was the Iran election, when in the face of a
media crackdown, the average man on the streets of Iran had Twitter.
What began as online chitchat for college kids, after Iran, started
being taken more seriously. So surely you have considered how to deal
with his problem in the future?
Evan: The Iran election
was a big deal for Twitter in terms of a major event where this type of
communication was useful. We were very happy that people were able to
use it and get out critical information at that time. But we were
blocked and we don't have a lot that we can do in that particular
situation, but we hope that in the long term some of these impediments
to open communication will go away either through technical means or
legal or political means.
NDTV: Well, the State Dept is
not usually concerned with dotcom start-ups. But during the Iran
elections they reached out to you and asked you delay your maintenance
upgrade so as to not disrupt service to Iranians, which you did. Did
you ever think that Twitter would be a part of US foreign policy?
Evan:
To be clear we did not change our maintenance schedule simply because
the State Department contacted us. A lot of people contacted us. It was
critical that we need to take the site down for a scheduled maintenance
and with a lot of peoples input we decided that we could move that
maintenance window--with some difficulty-- in order to help
communication flow more freely in Iran. The Obama administration or the
State Department does not have direct influence over what we do but I
think that what they have indicated--through their own use of Twitter
and support for other start ups--that they think that technology is
good for American and the rest of the world to foster communication.
That is an ideal that they can get behind.
NDTV: The State Department also used Twitter to raise money for Haiti?
Evan:
Raising money on Twitter is one of a number of things that we have seen
that can happen when people have a very easy way to express themselves.
One of our beliefs is that more good things can happen. People want to
do good things, they just need a prod sometimes, and what Twitter and
other technologies that connect people are showing us is that if you
make it a little easier for people then you will enable them to do what
they want to-do, to help people out, to form groups and do good. In the
best case what people will say about Twitter is that it is not a
triumph of technology but a triumph of humanity.
NDTV:
So why is Twitter the medium of the moment? Why does it seem like the
time is right for Twitter or that Twitter is right for the times we
live in?
Evan: I think Twitter is popular and growing
because it serves some basic human needs. From the basic, this is
valuable information that helps one make choices and keeps one
informed, to the desire to express oneself and reach other people and
have influence. These are things that people have always wanted to do.
They are innate and universal. Biz (Stone and I have been working on
this for over a decade--tools that allow people to do this. So it's
sort of a natural evolution. It's getting easier, more widespread and
more global.
NDTV: But it is not all laurels for
Twitter. In the US, there was a controversy over a woman who tweeted
after her son died. Is micro bogging being overused or do you welcome
all sorts of tweets?
Evan: We certainly welcome all
sorts of tweets and everybody has to decide what they are comfortable
sharing. Collectively, society is learning new norms about what to
share and what not too. Because Twitter taps into some basic human
needs--the desire to connect, people are going to have different
standards for that. So a woman tweeting after her sons death is
obviously a tragic situation and she was probably look for what all
people look for-- a connection and empathy, and that is perfectly
understandable. We do not place any judgments on that. It goes back to
our belief that sharing information in general has a positive effect.
NDTV:
But considering that we are not really talking to people we know many
say this is just a platform for self-promotion. Is that also a basic
human need?
Evan: It is partially that for some people.
Again, people bring their own needs and wants to twitter. Part of the
beauty of Twitter is that you can say things and those who want can
tune in and you are not obligated because you know someone you have to
listen to what they have to say and vice versa. It is part of the way
we set it up. So it really is a meritocracy where the information
hopefully gets to whoever is interested in it. Connections are formed
sometimes based on real world scenarios and sometimes based on just
some one who shares the same interest as you, and it does not have to
be self promotional.
NDTV: All right, Evan. Lets try go
back to the piece of information that everybody wants from you, how
does a company like Twitter run. Where does the money come from?
Evan:
All right, there are a few ways that we plan to make some money. We are
making money right now through deals that we have done. We have not
rolled out our real long-term revenue generating services but the
thesis is pretty simple. First of all, there is a lot of commercial
activity on Twitter today. When you take the concept of immediate
information and communication tool it is natural that it is used for
businesses and people are tuning in. There are major brands that are
using it from Coca Cola, Comcast to Jet Blue to other major airlines
who are sharing information with their customers, to other local
smaller businesses who for the first time are getting a communication
channel to people who come to their flower shop or restaurant for
example. It is a two-way communication. That is vital. It is not just
advertising but it is a way to get feedback and information from your
customer base, which you were not able to do before. So thousands of
businesses are doing that and finding value in it. The customers are
finding value in it because the nature of Twitter is that if people are
not opting in to see what you have to say then you are not reaching any
body. That is happening organically with the tools. It has happened
almost from day one. If we are able to create that value then there is
definitely a business there for us. So it is definitely an evolution.
We are building better tools for those businesses. We are also building
a way to get information back to you. A lot of the information you are
interested in is commercial in nature. The way Google does it that I do
a search for some thing and it shows up and it happens to be an ad that
some one paid for. We are trying to do the same for Twitter because I
am explicitly saying that I am interested in this because I am
searching for it so there is clear value there and clear intentions and
so there are ways to make money
NDTV: So are you considering embracing Twitter ads?
Evan: We are definitely looking at ads and we are trying to do so in a way that is very organic to Twitter and adds user value.
NDTV: And these big companies you mentioned, are they paying for this service?
Evan:
They are not paying for it today, no. We have plans to make a better
product for them. To try and make what they do easier and more
efficient and transient and also gives them feedback. Because if you
get feedback from your customers it's a signal, so there are analytics
in that. So if they are adding value to users there is a product for
that, and they will definitely pay for that.
NDTV: All
right, you are clearly keeping your cards close to your chest on that
one. OK so Twitter is growing so fast that short outages are not
unusual. What do you say to Venture capital firms and your users who
raise this issue?
Evan: We are making progress. We are
not where we should be. Our goal is to make a very reliable product, a
communication service that you know is always there and we have not
reached that goal yet. We started out as a very small startup. As you
said it grew very fast and the big challenge is to make it work at
scale and that is something that we will get to. The charts have shown
that we have gotten better over time. Soon, we think it will not be a
question any more.
NDTV: Ok, lets go back to a question
our readers of ndtv.com had. Kunal asks what do you feel about the role
Twitter is playing in news gathering and news creation?
Evan:
I think it adds to news gathering and news creation. Not just does it
add to what already going on. It also gives a better form for certain
types of information like cricket scores being sent to on twitter. It's
a great format for that because it is very short and it is very
immediate. It is some thing that you can get throughout the day and you
don't need a paper for that
NDTV: But how do you verify
the authenticity of Tweets. How can it be a part of news gathering if
it is impossible to authenticate sources?
Evan: Part of
it is that people are able to opt in to whatever information they
trust. There is no way to guarantee authenticity across the board
one-way or the other. Traditional news is often full of mistakes but I
think that people are getting more sophisticated in knowing what to
trust and what not to trust. My strong belief-- in being in blogging
before Twitter-- is that in trying to create more information out
there, in trying to create the democratization of media in general, is
that the more voices there are out there then the likelihood is that
the truth bubbles up to the top. Because if you only have a few voices,
even if they are not corrupt, if they are wrong, which happens on
occasion you have fewer people to correct them. So in general while
there is a lot of misinformation out there the forces of
democratization help truth find the light.
NDTV: But
Twitter has become an important marketing tool for celebrities and
politicians. It gives you a level of intimacy with these stars that was
never possible before but that's also why there are so many
impersonators out there. How does the reader know that when SRK says he
enjoyed ringing the bell at the NASDAQ it is really him?
Evan:
Impersonation is against our terms of service. We have a "verification
of accounts" process that we do, where we get in contact with a person
behind the account - If it is a famous person - and we verify whom they
are and we take down other impersonations accounts when we are made
aware of them. So look out for the blue check mark on the persons
account. We cannot do it for everyone but we are looking at ways to
scale that. But trust also builds up over time just like it does in
the real world. If you are talking to someone who you just met on the
street for the first time you will have a trust filter as compared to
some one which you know very well. The same thing happens on Twitter.
You have different levels of trust for every tweet that you see based
on the context and whom it has come from.
NDTV: Twitter
forced an undisclosed number of users to change their passwords this
week after it was hacked. How do you tackle that problem?
Evan:
That is definitely one of the unfortunate aspects of systems like
Twitter. It is not unique to Twitter. Every major communication tool on
the Internet has spam and abuse problems. All email services, blogging
services and social networks have to dedicate a significant amount of
resources and time to fighting abuse and protecting their users. That
is nature of the business. We have a significant team at Twitter -
called the trust and safety team - which works on fighting both manual
and technical abuse.
NDTV: So one of our readers on
ndtv.com Priya asks--how powerful a force is Twitter in terms of
shaping the way the Internet is used today?
Evan: It is
hard to say how powerful it is. It has definitely influenced a lot of
companies and tools and is being built into a lot of other tools and
services. The Internet is a very big ecosystem where a lot of things
influence everything else. A part of the beauty and complexity of all
these services is that they can talk to each other now so I would say
we all influence each other.
NDTV: Tanmay from Dubai asks what is the most surprising step in Twitter's evolution for you?
Evan:
There have been many surprising steps. Twitter really evolved since
what we thought about it from the beginning. Early on we thought it was
mostly a social communication system for sharing SMS's and status
updates from people you know. Since then many milestones have been
passed. Users and developers have taught us new uses for it. From
Mumbai, to raising money in Haiti. South by SouthWest was a big
milestone early on--a music and technology conference where a critical
mass of people were sharing information about the event as it was going
on. Whether or not you know the person, if you were interested in the
event or were part of the event then these tweets were interesting to
you. That taught us that sharing information real time has information
beyond the social context. There have been many other milestones.
Eventually we brought another company called Summize- a real time
Twitter search engine that we have since built into the product and
that led us to all sorts of new scenarios. For example there was a gas
shortage in Atlanta and people were using Twitter to inform others of
where gas was available using a hashtag (#atlgas). A hashtag is again
one of the things that users invented. So we had complete strangers
helping each other. Things like that have happened over and over that
we would have never thought of and we see them every day.
NDTV: What
do you say to criticism that Twitter is dumbing things down and
shortening already short attention spans. How does one say anything
meaningful in 140 characters?
Evan: We don't take that
lightly. Our goal at twitter is to improve people's attention and place
attention on the right things. There is definitely a lot of potential
with technologies like Twitter. With the incredible amount of media we
are exposed to we get a little bit caught up with what is the new
thing, what's the new info. That is not what we are into. We hope that
we can build technology and better filtering that will allow people to
really focus on what matters to them. That is really the long term
product and technology pattern for Twitter getting better and better at
harnessing this information, not just to put more stuff in front of
people. So there is constantly something new but what out of this
morass is really valuable to me? What is the meaning that is coming out
of all this information?
NDTV: The Internet has been nominated for the '2010 Nobel Peace Prize'. Do you think this is a legitimate entry?
Evan:
It seems strange because the Internet is really people. The world is
the Internet. It is a living-breathing organism. It goes back to what I
was saying that Twitter is going to be a triumph of humanity rather
than of technology. To say that the internet is the prize winner would
be put technology before the people who make it what it is so that does
not make that much sense to me.
NDTV: Twitter now is three years old. In dog years and the life cycle of startup is quite a long time. What's next for Twitter?
Evan:
In so many ways we feel like we are just getting started. We have had
three amazing years. We have built a substantial user base and a
substantial team-- although we are still just over 120 people working
on Twitter, which is huge compared to how big we were a year ago, but
tiny compared to the size of other companies that are trying to have a
similar impact. So our long term plan is to build a sustaining company
of enduring value. It will probably be a large company because the
potential is so big and because the needs of things to build and the
users to support are so large. We are just getting started with the
technology itself. We started with a very simple idea of sending these
short messages but now that we have a bunch of people sending
information there is so much more that we can build out of that. We
have a billion ideas. We are just trying to do them one step at a time.
NDTV: Finally how good of a tweeter are you and how many followers do you have?
Evan: I have just over a million followers but I could be better. There are much better people than me.
NDTV: How does one get better? How can be witty consistently in 140 characters?
Evan:
It should just be natural. I encourage people to not put too much
thought into and just really share what is on your mind. If you start
thinking about it too much or worrying if it is a good tweet then you
lose the spontaneity and the authenticity of the medium, which is
really what makes it shine.
NDTV: And who do you follow? Any recommendations?
Evan:
Gosh, I hate to recommend any one in particular. I follow friends,
family, industry people, Mallika Sherawat, and Bollywood people, Indian
people, a wide variety.
NDTV: All right, lets end with a
question from one of our viewers. Nishant asks do you ever feel that
you're living out the script of the ultimate start-up company story?
Evan:
Well, we definitely feel that we are very fortunate. I don't know if
there is an ultimate start up story. A lot of people here have had
amazing rides. But Twitter really has had a trajectory that we would
not have predicted and we definitely think that we are just getting
started.
NDTV: Evan Williams Thank you and all the best for you chapter in India.
Evan: Thank you, we are very much looking forward to expanding in India.