The NDTV Dialogues on Child Rights with Nobel Laureate Kailash Satyarthi: Full Transcript

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Nobel Laureate Kailash Satyarthi on 'The NDTV Dialogues'


On 'The NDTV Dialogues', Nobel Laureate Kailash Satyarthi answers questions about his fight for the cause of children in India. He is also joined by an audience of children from different backgrounds.

Here is the full transcript:

NDTV: Hello and welcome to The NDTV Dialogues, a conversation of ideas. This week as we mark Children's Day, it is a time to move beyond platitudes and empty dialogue and look at the reality of how we treat the future of our country. Joining me on this special episode I am glad to welcome Nobel Laureate Kailash Satyarthi. Thank you very much Sir for joining us. Mr Satyarthi has been fighting for the cause of children in India, against all odds, quietly away from the headlines and with us today is an audience of children from different backgrounds and lucky enough to go to Delhi's best schools. Some who haven't even been to school but they are all here today, as young children asking questions along with me. Thank you very much Kailash Satyarthi ji for coming in today.

Kailash Satyarthi: My pleasure.

NDTV: Kailash Satyarthi it was really, I think, a tragedy that many in India didn't know who you were, didn't know the work that you did or that it was such a serious problem before you got the Nobel Peace prize. Has anything changed beyond the headlines, beyond the individual fame, has anything changed in terms of policy since you won the Nobel Peace prize?

Kailash Satyarthi: Well I have no complaint or regret about it because I have been working for the most invisible people, most marginalized. You can call them, in Gandhi's language, as last person of Indian society. It is not an adult who is the last person, maybe poor, but the child, especially the girl; the girl who has been trafficked and sold and bought like animal, sometimes lesser price than the animal. The girl who has been forced to work as a child prostitute, child labourer, child domestic help, she is the last person. So I have been working for the most invisible people, so if I remained invisible it is obvious, it was common. Sometimes people like you and others used to call me for some TV shows or sometimes media but I never cared for that.

NDTV: Are these children still invisible?

Kailash Satyarthi: They are still invisible but definitely after the announcement of Nobel Peace prize there is much attention, there is much talk about it. We have to translate these talks and concerns into concrete actions, it will take some time, it is not going to happen overnight, but definitely there is much more interest on this issue. So from the media and the public I am getting hundreds, thousands of mails where the ordinary are not only congratulating me, expressing their willingness to join the cause against child labour and child servitude. So this is good sign and even the children, many children are writing poems and sending me small letters and I am so happy, overwhelmed, because these are the, as I say that children are our present, not future. So I am working with the present.

NDTV: Aman, aap school nahi ja rahe hain. Aap poochiye Kailash ji se apko kya poochna hai?

Aman: Sir vo hum Shadinagar Kendriya Vidyalaya mein gaye the jab to humein pehle bhagaya gaya, pehle bole dress mein aao pfir dress mein aye to to fir parents ko bulaya fir parents ko leke gaye fir admision nahi diya unhone, bole ab time nikal gaya jao.

Kailash Satyarthi: To ye bahut dukh ki baat hai aur ye apraadh hai. Bharat ke kanoon mein ye apraadh ho gaya hai ki agar kisi bacche ko koi admission nahi deta, bacche ko bhagata hai, koi bhi sikshak kahi bhi ya koi bhi management ka admi to ye galat hai aur bahut acchi baat hai ki tumhare andar ek aag hai, tum padhna chahte ho agey?


Aman: Yes sir.

Kailash Satyarthi: Kya padhna chahte ho?

Aman: English, Sanskrit, Science

Kailash Satyarthi: Sabhi cheeze padhna chahte ho na? to bahut badhiya tum padhke kya banna chahte ho?

Aman: Ye socha nahi Sir.

Kailash Satyarthi: Aman agar bhagwan na chahe, allah miya aa jaye aur tum se pooche ki Aman lo tumhe jo banna hai, banna chahte ho to kya banna chahoge? kya sapna noga tumhara?

Aman: Engineer.

Kailash Satyarthi: Engineer? Arey main bhi ek baar engineer ban gaya tha dhoke se aur... lekin fayda hai dekho, engineer banne ka sabse bada fayda ye hai ki ek na ek din apko Nobel prize mil sakta hai. To accha rasta hai.

NDTV: You will leave engineering fir shayad....

Kailash Satyarthi: Lekin humne abhi apne saathiyo ko kaha hai aur bol raha hu main aur jitne bhi bacche yaha pe baithe hain aur jinko school mein dakhila nahi mila hai main nivedan karunga Delhi ki sarkar se unka dakhila turant karein aur agar tab bhi nahi karte to hum koshish karenge aur hum tumhare saath tumhare sapne mein shamil hona chahenge.

NDTV:Kishan aur Vijay bhi hain... Vijay kaun hai? Vijay aap school nahi ja rahe to aap kya kar rahe hain?

Kishan: Ji main chai ki dukan mein kaam karta tha, fir kapde ki dukan mein kaam karta tha fir baitha raha ghar pe, baitha hua tha ghar mein.

NDTV: To jab aap kaam ke liye gaye the to vo dukandar ko pata nahi tha ki aap bacche ho, ki ye apraadh hai, ye illegal hai ki aap kaam karenge kisi ne poocha nahi ki aap kitne saal ke hain? aap school mein kyu nahi ho?

Kishan: Poocha tha.

NDTV: To fir kya hua fir dukandar ne kaise apko rakha?

Kishan: Fir hata diya tha baad mein.

NDTV: Acha to fir abhi aap ghar mein baithe hain. To abhi aap Kailash ji se kya poochna chahenge

Kailash Satyarthi: Aap bhi agey padhna chahte ho? Kuch padhayi kari hai pehle?

Kishan: Pehle nahi kari

Kailash Satyarthi: To agar sachmuch padhna chahte ho, kitne saal ke ho gaye ho?

Kishan: 14

Kailash Satyarthi: 14 ke. To ap 14 saal ke thode din baad agar sachmuch 14 ke upar ke ho chuke ho to kuch padhayi ke saath-saath kaam bhi dhanda bhi seekh sakte ho. Agar tumhari iccha isme hai to main tumhari madad karne ko taiyar hu, apne sathiyo se bolta hu main abhi yaha maujood hain vo log ki vo tumse hi sampark karenge aur poori jankari leke agar tum chahte ho to tumhari madad karenge hum apne aap se to tum par nahi thopenge lekin tumhari jo iccha hai usme hum log madad kar sakte hain.

NDTV: Kailash ji this some ways is also a lost generation, children who are not at the age where they can join a school, then 12,13, 14 and many ask, their parents themselves say that why can't these children work for us? We are from a poor family what help will the education give them? Let them contribute to the family income. Let them end poverty. This is something you very controversially contested because you said making children work actually adds to poverty.

Kailash Satyarthi: Well first of all we must know that we are living in a different age. Earlier the power lies in land, power lies in arms, power lies in money. Now, the power lies in knowledge and information. So we are living in the age of knowledge and information and that cannot come without education and good quality education. So education is key to get rid of poverty, education is key to becoming prosperous, education is key to fight injustices and gender biases and so on. So education is key, so denial of education is a violation. It is a denial of human rights but it is a violation in my opinion as far as the scenario is concerned.

168 million children means about 70 crore children working in full time jobs globally, whereas 200 million, around 20 crore adults are jobless. And there are many examples which prove that the children who are working in full time jobs, perhaps they are working for more than 300, 400 days in a year, because they work 12 hours, 14 hours a day. So they work more, more working days. Their parents remain jobless and children are preferred because they are cheapest source of laboUr; children are preferred because they cannot fight for their rights. They can sleep at the place they are working and forced to work. So they are more vulnerable physically and mentally. So their vulnerability and poverty is further misused or manipulated by the vested interests, those who want greed, greedy employer, those who wanted to use a cheap or free labour and their parents remain jobless. So poverty, and there is a relation between poverty, child labor and illiteracy, it is like a chicken and egg relationship, poverty and child labour.

If I ask you one question, that which comes first, chicken or egg, tell me, chicken or egg? Chicken, egg, chicken; you said egg and you said chicken. Who says egg? Ye bataiye ki murgi aur ande se pehle kaun hai?  Egg?  You can also try. Does egg comes first or chicken? Think and tell me, everyone will try. I will handpick anyone. Egg or chicken; chicken? How of you many think that chicken comes first and how many think that egg comes first? Which comes first? Egg? And the rest think that both chicken and egg came just out of sky, Everyone should try, everyone should think. Actually, the question is the beginning of learning. It is essential for your brain that you keep on questioning and you keep on responding, if you don't question and you don't respond then you cannot be an equal power in global economy, in global politics, in global technology or whatever you call that, advancement of the world. Question and answer, both should come from your mind at this age, this is the age. Abhi sochna chahiye, to ye dono cheez bahut difficult hain answer. Nobody can answer clearly which comes first. Poverty or illiteracy both are interlinked, poverty and child labor both are interlinked, illiteracy and child labour; so there is triangle relationship, triangular relationship. Each one of them is cause and consequence of other and that is why it goes on.

NDTV: How do you change the mindset Kailash ji, which sees children working as acceptable in some sense, where it says that if I keep a child working in my house at least he is not starving in his own home? If I bring him from Jharkhand to Delhi I am giving him a better life. Or people who say that it is acceptable in India, these are western concepts that child labour is not alright. What is wrong if a child is making carpets at home? How do you answer to those who say that this is acceptable in India?

Kailash Satyarthi: I tell you if you go through the history of apartheid, when some people started fighting apartheid in Africa, the simple allegation was that it is western mindset, it is not the local thing. When the women stood up in the world, about 50 years ago, 60 years ago, they said we have equal rights in the world, not only in the East or the West or South or North, everywhere the women wanted to acquire power. People said this is a western concept, this is not the thing, ye to hamare yaha to Devi hai, India mein to Devi hai bhale hi uska kitna bhi exploitation karo, but women stood up against all odds and they demanded their position in the society. Equal position, equality and that has happened, that has. is happening. I won't say that it is completely done. So is the case of children. Children are considered either pitiable, miserable. Give them some money, give them some help, thoda unko dan dedo and feel yourself very big, great person because you are donor and they are recipients. So your hand is always up and their hands are down and you are very happy, walking on the roads and going to temples inside or outside of temples or mosques you put some money in the hands of those children.

This is ill mindset I would say. Another ill mindset is that we exploit children because they are cheap labour, we exploit children because their bodies can easily be misused for anything, their minds could also be ruined and their souls could be ruined and that is happening everyday, every other day in India and globally also. And the third mindset is about our own children, we make them happy, we do everything to pamper them, we don't spend time, we are not friendly with them, but we are pampering them with ice creams and chocolates and pizzas and burgers. We don't have time to talk to them and share with them as friends. This is not justified. We have to think and work for new culture, a new mindset where the children are our friends, children have their rights; children have their dignity. We have to interact with the children with sense of dignity and interest with them. Not we know everything as we are adults and children don't know. Hamare yaha to agar bada admi bhi koi choti-moti galati karde to usko kehte hain bachpana kar raha hai, bachpana means foolishness. Arey bachpana to simplicity hai, bachpana to power hai, bachpana to potential hai aur hum sochte hain ki bachpana means foolishness. We have to change this mindset and I am fighting for that, are you prepared to fight against that mindset?

Audience: Yes Sir....

NDTV: Let me take some questions now we have Faisal from Anmol Education School, What is your question Faisal? Aap Faisal ho? Faisal aap prashna pooche

Faisal: Sir, my name is Faisal Khan, hum Anmol charity se aye hain aur hamara school bahut chota hai humein poori suvidhayein nahi mil pati ki hum ache playground mein khele aur hum bus mein jaye aur hum kabhi dusre school mein naam likhvane jate hain to bolte hain ki T.C. do aur fir mana kar dete hain ki tumhara admission nahi ho payega?

Kailash Satyarthi: To Faisal ji apki baat ab poora Hindustan sun raha hai, Delhi bhi sun rahi hai, Delhi ki sarkar bhi sun rahi hai jo aap bol rahe ho aur main ye bharosa karta hu ki jo log apki baat sun rahe hain vo isko ek chunauti ki tarha manenge jinke haath mein taqat hai, jinke haath mein paisa hai, sarkare hain un logo ko apki baat sunni chahiye. Aap apni awaaz ko band mat hone do jo aap aaj keh rahe ho barbar kaho, sab log kahe ye baat aur hum apki awaaz ke saath apni awaaz milate hain.

NDTV: Why does the current atmosphere of previous governments of the administration system make it so difficult for children to get, what is in a sense, their fundamental right?  Because interestingly the Women and Child Welfare Ministry is never seen as politically important ministry, in fact it is never given to top politicians, it is always given to a woman leader, there is always some hesitaion. You had come on an NDTV show when there was a child who had died in a factory in the heart of Delhi and the Minister said, "Oh there is no child labour in Delhi", and you said Madam please come tomorrow, I will take you and show you the factory where there is child labour under the Delhi Police's nose, under Central government's nose. We have a new government, you met Mr. Modi, he congratulated you very warmly after Nobel Peace prize; politically will anything change? Because around us in Delhi, the heart of government, we see laws being violated everyday, we see children working on the streets...

Kailash Satyarthi: As I said before that it is not going to change overnight. But the warmth, the openness, which I have found in the Prime Minister, is commendable and I have lot of hope in him and his government. It is new but we will interact in the future also and we will see that how we can see the concrete results on the ground. So on one hand we cannot expect everything from the government, but on the other hand governments have to have good laws, they have to implement the laws, that is their responsibility, but the society as whole should work towards creating a culture of Childhood Rights.

NDTV: Similar movement as the Swachh Bharat movement, would you like to see something like that happen for child labor?

Kailash Satyarthi: I have. When I met Prime Minister I said that definitely we all want to see India as a proud India, prosperous India, clean India but that will remain sustained when we also have another component, what we call the Child Friendly India. So it should be proud India, prosperous India, clean India and child friendly India. So lets see.

NDTV: We have Swarit also, Swarit to ask a question, Swarit go ahead with your question.

Swarit: Sir as Ma'am said your winning the Nobel Peace prize has given a huge boost to your cause and till a few years back all state governments and the Indian government did not, I mean as you said, regarded you as nuisance but now you are getting...

Kailash Satyarthi: No no look, she has answered the question herself that, she invited me and the then Union minister of Children and Welfare something like that, and I requested her, I did not challenge. I requested her to come with me and see that the children are dying everyday in Delhi. She did not turn up of course, she accepted at that time but she did not come next day, but what do you believe from a minister? She will tell you next time that if you invite Kailash I will never come or my officers will never come, so that is the problem.

Swarit: So Sir now that you have got recognition from the government as well as global recognition, where do you hope to take your movement from here and what more do you think needs to be done to make this even bigger than it is right now?

NDTV: And did you feel sad that you never got recognition from the Indian government, actually Mr Satyarthi has never got recognition from the Indian government, but he has got recognition from the Nobel Peace prize. So did you ever feel that now that it is a bit ironic?

Kailash Satyarthi: No, I always believe in my work, I always believe in the people, but most important are our children and youth, like yourself. I trust them, I believe in them, I work with them and they love me. Wherever I go in India, when I meet, I tell you, whenever, wherever I meet children and youth like you for the first time they will become my friend forever and that is my country, that is my nation, that is my constituency, I work with them. So it is not because of Nobel Peace prize, it has been happening from last 34 years, so as far as your question is concerned let me tell you that I am a very ordinary person. My father was a very ordinary police constable. My mother was illiterate. My father died at a very early age so my mother was a widow, but she had a dream that her child becomes engineer and I became an engineer. She had to sell her ornaments. My brothers also helped me in my studies. So I am very ordinary in that sense and that is very deep in my heart and soul. So I feel, i have been telling it all the time that this Nobel prize, the first desi Indian, Indian born desi khaati Indian got the Nobel Peace prize in the history. It is a prize to each one of you, if you don't feel the pride I would not be happy I tell you. Every Indian and every child in the world, every activist who are fighting for the rights of the children anywhere in the world, Africa, Latin America, Asia must feel pride that it is prize for them. So it becomes bigger moral responsibility if you are happy with that pride. Are you happy with that pride?

Audience: Yes sir.

Kailash Satyarthi: Sure? Are you feeling happy with that pride?

Audience: Yes sir.

Kailash Satyarthi: Then it is much more bigger moral responsibility, I tell you that I am overwhelmed. Main daba ja raha hu ki moral responsibility se aur main aap logo se dost maine apkko banaya hai, aap se main ye appeal kar raha hu ki mere upar ye wazan hai naitik responsibility ka ye aap share karne ke liye taiyar ho?

Audience: Yes sir.

Kailash Satyarthi: Jhooth mat bola mere samne. Scchi, mera naam hi Satyarthi hai Main uska artha nikal lunga jo bologe. Sachmooch kuch karoge baccho ke liye?

Audience: Yes sir.

Kailash Satyarthi: Share kar rahe ho mera burden? Kaun-kaun kargea haath upar karo.... haath upar karo sacchi dil se.

NDTV: In fact Kailash that is a very important point because you have talked about how society must change as governments can't do this, politicians can't do this. But you can talk about what children and what the President and what the people must do who are watching this programme and how to actually eradicate child labour. Everybody may not become an activist and go to mines but how can an average person change the mindset or make their own contribution towards ending child labour?   

Kailash Satyarthi: I told you that I am also an ordinary person so I have been going to mines and factories as an ordinary person, not as a government officer, not as a policeman, but I used to go as a very simple person, ordinary person. So, but first of all the youth and the people must start thinking for other children who may not be their biological children, but the children in the neighborhood, children in the vicinity, children in the community. And these children who are not known to us, not known to me, let me begin, let you begin thinking that how are you going to make that child smile who is unknown to you so far? That is the beginning of a new personality in anyone who does it like that. When you are passing through the road smile, give a smile to a child who is unknown to you. You are making the world more full of smiles and a better world for children. And then many other things, like many of you are on Facebook, many of you must be on Twitter, many of you are now at least from these two schools, many of you must be in social media, you have some connect.

Delhi is going to have elections, ask all your politicians, whosoever, from from any party that what are you going to do for children, tell me what budget will you put for children in Delhi, for their education, for their health? What are you going to make that none of these three children have to ever complain that they are not admitted in school, ask this question. You have listened to these questions. Write on your Facebook, not about Kailash Satyarthi. Kailash Satyarthi will be in you if you start asking this question to all your politicians, to all your religious people, to all your friends and colleagues and parents. That will begin so anyone in Delhi or anyone in the country start having concern for other children, action for the children, raise the voice, break the silence.

Politicians, businesses, if you are passing through a restaurant and you see that there is a child, young child is working like he has been working before, then you should politely tell to that restaurant owner or a tea shop owner that I am not going to have a cup of tea sat your place this is my personal contribution and tell with some courage, show some courage and tell that if you are not going to employ an adult person in place of that child we are not going to drink here. So it is with the child domestic labor, is you see that somebody is hiring, somebody is using a child domestic labor at home that could be your own friends, that could be your own family members. Politely tell them, no I am not going to touch a glass of water in those houses where a child domestic labour is languishing, a modern day slavery. It is a modern-day slavery. This is not something merciful to the child, but it is robbing the childhood and education opportunities and so on. So say something, connect yourself with the children who you don't know then you will make a child friendly India and child friendly world. So actions are needed.

NDTV: When you had actually started Rug Mark that is the time I think you have faced the most opposition because we were talking also about corporate support. Because we have seen that corporates could have such a huge role to play in this, sustaining children and making sure that fair wages are paid to adults. When the Rug Mark had come out that was seen, as they said, that this is a part of western agenda towards the Indian carpet industry. Why do we not see such similar labels actually coming up on Indian goods, whether it is crackers, whether it is any other thing where you have seen child labour being involved? Why has that not happened in India yet?

Kailash Satyarthi: It has happened actually in India, the Indian government and some of the Indian Industry groups also introduced some labels at that time also. But labeling is not the solution; I would say it can give the choice to consumers anywhere in the world. In India or anywhere in Delhi they can find and differentiate that this particular thing is free of child labour. But you are right that at that time people had a lot of fear and apprehensions and doubt about my work and lot of allegations on me as well. But can they answer now that why Government of India, the Indian Parliament has introduced a law that is called the Law on Corporate Social Responsibility? I am a person who could see much beyond that, I could see it 25, 30 years ago that there would be something like Corporate Social Responsibility when this phrase was not yet invented. The phrase was not yet coined but I was doing something in practice that corporations also have some moral and ethical responsibility towards the producers, towards people, towards consumers; that it was a philosophy, which had translated in action, and now it is taught in universities in many countries in the world but what....

NDTV: Indian universities will catch up with it we hope, we hope. Well now let me have another question, Rosie. Rosie aap prashna poochiye aap, abhi-abhi apne school join kiya na? Aap prashna poochiye. Apne school kab join kiya?

Rosie: Main vaise first class mein padhti hu vaise aur main chahti hu ki mera admission government school mein ho aur main kuch bade hoke kuch banna chahungi lekin maa-papa ke paas itne pasise nahi hain. Thank you.

NDTV: Acha, aap Kailash ji se kuch poochna chahengi?

Kailash Satyarthi:Poocho. Tum jab pehle din school gayi thi Rosie to tumko kaisa laga tha?

Rosie: Baqhut ajeeb feel ho raha tha ki koi meri friend nahi hai lekin last mein meri friend bani thi.

Kailash Satyarthi: Ban gaye? Arey wah! Apka sabse pakka friend kaun hai? kya naam hai apki sabse pakki friend ka?

Rosie: Naaz.

Kailash Satyarthi: Naaz, vo bhi ayi hai yaha? nahi ayi.

Rosie: Vo gaon mein rehti hai.

Kailash Satyarthi: Vo gaon mein rehti hai? aur 2-3 friend ban gaye? Kitne hain apke paas friend?

Rosie: Six.

Kailash Satyarthi: Six? To agar aap seven kar dogi to kaisa lagega?

Rosie: Acha lagega.

Kailash Satyarthi: To main seventh hu apke liye. Main ek cheez aur bata du Rosie ko. Rosie main isiliye pooch raha hu ye ki main jab pehli baar apne school gaya Jab main 5-6 saal ka tha, to Vidisha mein paida hua, choti si jagah hai Madhya Pradesh mein, to sarkari school tha aur jab main school ki sidhiya chadhne ko tha pehle din, bilkul pehle din to mujhe darwaze par ek baccha meri umra ka jooto pe polish karta hau, joote saaf karta hua mila. Uske pitaji ke saath vo dono kar rahe the, mujhe bada jhatka sa laga, bada bura laga. Main jab andar ghusa to maine apne sikshak se poocha, teacher se poocha ki sir ye baccha bahar kyu baitha hai? hum log school ke andar kyu hain? To teacher ko bada atpata laga aur headmaster sahab ko bhi atpata laga. Unhone kaha dost banao naye ye kya hai tarika, aise aaj bhi kehte hain log ye to 50-55 saal purani baat hai, to mujhe samajh mein nahi aya, maine apne ghar walo se poocha sab ne kaha arey ye to aam baat hai, gareeb kebacche hain, kaam kar rahe hain kya isme naya hai? ye to aam baat hai. Sab ne yahi kaha. Fir maine roz himmat kari, dekho himmat ka kitna fayda hai, maine roz himmat kari aur ek din 10-15 din baad maine us bacche ke pita ke paas chala gaya school se lautte waqt. Dheere-dheere gaya, socho main bhi 5-6 saal ka tha, maine kaha ki babuji aap apne bacche ko school kyu nahi bhejte? To vo itna chauke bole nahi babuji to aap hain kyunki gareeb admi humein babuji keh raha hai to bole to babuji aap hain, hamare to dada, pardada, pitaji sab bachpan se kaam karte the aur mera beta kar raha hai koi nayi baat nahi to mere man mein kuch aya nahi jawab fir vo bole ki... jo dusri baat vo bole ki babuji aap jante nahi hain hum to kaam karne ke liye paida hue hain. So this cobbler gentleman replied me that look we are born to work and that made me very angry inside, I was not frustrated. I was in pain. But my pain and compassion has turned out to be an anger that why some people are born to work? Kuch log kaam karne ke liye paida kyu hote hain? aur hum jaise log school jake bade-bade sapne dekhne ke liye paida kyu hote hain? That was the very first day of my schooling which began with a question and I am struggling to find an answer and certain solution to that problem, because I believe that there is no problem in the world which is unsolvable. Every problem has an answer in itself, we have to dig it out and fight for it and achieve it.

NDTV: In fact I would like to throw that open even to the children here, a lot of you here are very lucky to go to good schools, when you see children working on the road do you all feel that there is something you can do about it? What do you all feel when you see children working on the road or not going to school, anyone i mean if has an answer what do you think about it?

Kailash Satyarthi: Aap batao beta. Bahut badhiya. Kya naam hai apka?

Pawani: Pawani. Jab hum log dekhte hain ki bacche ya fir tea stalls pe ya fir road pe hain to once or twice maine unse interact kiya hai baat karne ki koshish ki hai and we have also observed that some of them don't want to got to school because ya fir unke experience in school hasn't been that pleasant or people are giving them money everyday so that they are thriving on that money. So I have no taste I told them ki main aao chalo main apko help kar sakti hu, apko kisi scholol mein bharti kara sakti hu but they said nahi thank you, hum yaha pe hi sahi hain. So that is what I don't like, that is what, I even have a little question to you as well, that what do you think we can do as children who are better, who has the resources, what do you think we can do to get them, encourage them or probably tell them somewhere that, yes you know, education is what is important for you as well?

Kailash Satyarthi: Very good question, very good Pawani and I applaud your concern and your initiative, which you tried to do. What we can definitely do that, you might be having some friends 2,3,4 make a small group that has happened in many places so I am just, I am not giving you any advice, which is not untested, it is done. So a group of young people like you, bright young people can know more about that child it cannot happen in one go because these children don't have choice, they don't have alternate. They are born and grew up in a situation where they are kept in a box, their minds are in box. They cannot think more than that. I have answered partly in the first part of my life the first day that the father and son, they might be thinking that they are born to work because they don't have any choice; the choice has not been given to them. So you are giving a choice for the first time, which is not digestable for them, it is not comprehendable for them. So if you go 1,2,3 times and try to know what is the family background, if you can also manage to go to the family of that child and talk to the mother, talk to the father and see that what else could be done. If you are able to convince that schooling is free nowadays, the mid-day meal is free nowadays, if the child belongs to Below Poverty Line or certain caste or the child is a girl child, then there are many schemes of the government and central government, central and state governments both. So you can try to work with that but you should have some idea about that how are you going to convince the parents and giving them some better alternative to the children. So that is very much possible.

I will give you an example, we work in about 700 villages in India and in those villages school going children form such groups and they are knocking the doors of those people every morning who are unable to send their children to schools but the children must be working in fields and farms and looking after animals and so on. So these are young groups what we call Baal Panchayat, the Baal Panchaya to ne jagah-jagah ja karke logo ko convince kiya aur vo bahut apne aap mein leader hain aur vo icons hain. To tumhare andar to already ek hero hai, sach keh raha hu main. Agar tumhare andar vo hero na hota to ya heroin na hoti to tum ye karti nahi, usko thoda aur bada karo. Iska matlab ye nahi tumhare fan aur followers badha lo, colleagues badhao, teammates badhao aur ja karke isko akhir tak le jao. Jo cheez shuru kari hai usko beech mein mat roko, agar tumhare andar itna abdhiya compassion hai, itna concern hai it is very special, this is a spark don't let it die. Thik hai? karogi?

Pawani: Thank you, Yes sir I will try my level best.

Kailash Satyarthi: Thik hai.

NDTV: Is there a lack of faith in these laws, Right to Education says it is over 90% enrollment, but you and I and everybody can testify how many children we still see out of school. Is there a lack of faith in implementation of these laws, what is the point of a law, which can't be implemented?

Kailash Satyarthi: Well laws sometimes, I say, are like weapons or tools. But if you have to use those weapons you have to have hands, you have to have heart, you have to have mind and you have to have action to use those weapons and you have to have strategy. So that is needed so laws will remain on paper and people will keep on having conferences and meetings and discussions on laws. So there are many avenues where people can make their carreer and their living out of discussion and discussion about the laws. I am not the one. I wanted to use always, always any law in favour of children must be used as weapon to fight. So that is why I appeal to everyone that law should not remain the pieces of paper or the discussion subject, it should be used by everyone. We must know some basic understanding and basic knowledge about our legal rights and we have to fight for it and only then it will work. So the operative part of the law will be successful only when the people are conscious, the people are aware, the people are active. So there is some sort of moral responsibility of society as well. So we cannot leave everything on the government and the enforcement agencies.

NDTV: But when you see that in the winter session, the discussion is, will then Assurance be passed, will the Pension be passed? Will the GST bill be passed? You ever ask that what about the Child Labour Abolition Act; when is that being passed? Where is the voice? Where is the media pressure for that?

Kailash Satyarthi: We are all born a child but the children are still lagging behind and their issues are lagging behind. So sometimes the issues, which are good for the adults they are put on the forefront in the society, in the politics, everywhere, but the issues of children remain in the back and that is why our fight is that we have to create a culture of children first. Child-centric politics, child-centric economy, child-centric religions, child-centric society where the best interest of the child remains in nucleus and rest of the things revolve around it and it is possible.

NDTV: And today's child is going to vote at 18 so quite soon. You will have to remember that when you will vote....

Kailash Satyarthi: Yes some of you must be 18 or will become 18 soon so get ready for it. But when you become 18 suddenly you start thinking that you are an adult person or 60-year old. You start thinking on those terms. You should remain connected with the children and the issues of childhood and their protection.

NDTV: And of course interesting that this year's Nobel Peace prize was shared by you and a young girl Malala and the same thing that we have seen, the Pakistan private schools association has said that Malala is not welcome there, you will also be not welcomed in many places. Do you think both of you will have to fight more to be acceptable to your own societies?

Kailash Satyarthi: I will never fight for my acceptability. I never fought in the past because my acceptability lay in the youth and children like them. If they accept me as friend, as brother I am more than happy. Thik hai ki nahi hai?

Audience: Yes sir.

Kailash Satyarthi: Agar aap mujhe dost mante ho to mujhe aur acceptability ki kya zarurat hai. Hai kuch zarurat?

NDTV: Apko government seminar, government award nahi chahiye?

Kailash Satyarthi: Nahi, mujhe bahiya koi kuch dega aur sabse zyada baccho ki mohabbat chahiye, pyar chahiye kyunki mujhe lagta hai ki ek poorana sher hai ki "vatan ki ret mujhe ediyan ragadne de-2 mujhe yakin hai ki paani yahi se niklega" aur vatan ki ret ye bacche bane hue hain mujhe lagta hai yahi se sab hoga.

NDTV: I think that is a wonderful note to end the show but Kailash ji aap keh rahe the ki apko baccho ke saath baithke baat karna hai to abhi agar apko yaha baithna hai to baithiye, jaise bhi apko karna hai aap kariye but it is a wonderful note to end the show...

Kailash Satyarthi: Ab to show khatma hone ke baad ho raha hai ye kyu bhai? Agey se mera ye request rahega ki kuch aisa kuch karo aap ki baccho ke beech mein saath mein main baith saku, main zarur ana chahunga apke aise program meinjisme bacche honge aur maine sabse kaha hai ki meri prathmikta hamesha se bacche rahe hainaur hamesha bacche rahenge.


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