"Don't Know What The Next Thing Is": Rishi Sunak On Life After UK PM Role on Nikhil Kamath Podcast

In a three-hour episode of People by WTF, Zerodha co-founder and billionaire Nikhil Kamath hosted a candid conversation with former UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and his wife Akshata Murty. The discussion moved fluidly across leadership, failure, identity, artificial intelligence, and India's rapidly evolving consumer economy. Notably, Rishi Sunak and Akshata Murty are the first couple guests on the popular podcast. 

In the episode, Kamath engaged Sunak in a discussion on the implications of losing high office, deriving lessons from failure, and guidance for young Indians navigating careers in finance and politics. Meanwhile, the conversation with Murty explored the challenges of inherited success, achieving balance amidst success and adversity, and family expectations. The couple also shared anecdotes about everyday disagreements, including differing ice cream preferences, adding a relatable touch to the discussion.

Here are some of the most shared and talked-about moments from the podcast:

Life After Power: The 'Blank Canvas'

Sunak described stepping down from office not just as a political loss but as a rare psychological reset. After two years in government and months as prime minister, losing the 2024 election thrust him, for the first time in his professional life, into an unscripted future. "I don't know what the next thing is," he told Kamath. 

He shared that this lack of structure is "actually exciting" because it forces him to think about what he actually wants rather than focusing on professional progression.

"For the first time in my career, I don't know what the next thing is. There's no predetermined track. No expected milestone. No Google Calendar reminder about what I'm supposed to be doing. And that's actually exciting," he added. 

Reframing Failure: Control vs Acceptance

Kamath asked Sunak how he's handling the political loss without victimising himself or downplaying it. Sunak replied that framing failure matters and seeing oneself as a victim takes away agency and hinders learning. 

"The story you tell yourself about failure matters enormously. If you tell yourself you're a victim, you've given away your agency. You won't learn. You'll just feel bitter. If you tell yourself it was entirely your fault, you spiral. The truth is usually in the middle. You had agency, but you weren't omnipotent. You can improve, but you can't control everything," Sunak said. 

Murty added that focusing on duty, like Krishna advised Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita, helps in doing what's right. 

India's Consumption Boom: A Generational Shift

Kamath then shifted the conversation to India's economy, asking Sunak about his observations. Sunak highlighted India's growing consumption story and pointed out the young generation's changing spending habits, driving demand for new, authentic, and indigenous brands.

"India's story right now is consumption. Your GDP is growing at 6-7%. Your consumer sector is growing at 12-13%. That's not a rounding error. That's a signal. A generational cohort—the 200 million young people—is borrowing and spending at rates their parents never did. And they're not buying what their parents bought. They want new brands. They want indigenous. They want authenticity," Sunak added. 

Kamath also shared that he started his own venture, Foundry, where he's helping young founders create consumer brands, focusing on making them heroes before their products launch. 

On Education and 'Disappointing' Indian parents

The discussion turned to how education is often viewed by Indian parents as a key to a better life. In one of the most viral moments of the podcast, Sunak joked about "disappointing" his parents - a doctor and a pharmacist - by not pursuing medicine. He revealed that his parents had encouraged him to become a doctor, a common aspiration among many Indian-origin families, but he opted for politics instead.

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Education, AI, and the Skill Reset

The discussion then tackled a global anxiety: the future relevance of education. Kamath shared his insecurity about not attending college, wondering if it's even relevant today. Murty countered that it's not about college but about learning ability.

"It's not college that matters. It's the ability to learn. I took a liberal arts path in California. Not engineering. Not business. I studied philosophy, literature, and art because I knew that path—the India-to-engineering pipeline—wasn't me. That willingness to be non-linear, to trust yourself enough to say, "This isn't my path"—that's what matters now," Murty said. 

Sunak added that while he uses AI tools like Claude for research, he values the discipline of original thinking and writes his own speeches and arguments.

Balance and the Middle Path

Murty shared how reading Hermann Hesse's Siddhartha during the pandemic resonated with her, particularly the idea of finding a middle path. "Not renouncing desire entirely. Not being consumed by it either. The Buddha doesn't say desire is bad. He says clinging to desire is bad. There's a difference," she explained. 

When Kamath asked if she's avoiding extremes, she replied that it's more about drifting between poles, anchored by her values and self-awareness.  

Identity Beyond Labels 

When Murty was asked about being defined by her family ties, she firmly stated that's not her identity. She described her identity as being "defined by impact, not labels."

"That's not my identity. I'm very much a Bangalore girl with a British accent. I grew up in Jayanagar. My father built a company. My husband was prime minister. But I am not my father's daughter. I am not my husband's wife. I am my own person defined by impact, not labels," she said.

She also spoke about navigating life between India and the United Kingdom, describing herself as a "living bridge." Sunak also chimed in, sharing how Akshata pushed him to stay true to himself, even when he became PM. 

Should young Indians enter politics?

Kamath asked Sunak if young Indians should join politics. Sunak said yes if they've got resilience, patience, and a service-minded attitude. "Yes. With caveats. You need resilience. You need patience. You need to be motivated by service, not ambition. But if you have those three things, the leverage is enormous. One clause in one law affects 1.4 billion people. That's not hyperbole. That's actual compounding power," he noted. 

He highlighted the impact one can make in politics, citing William Wilberforce's 40-year fight to abolish slavery as an example of changing civilisation. 

The Consumer Economy and 'Foundry'

Kamath further elaborated on his own venture 'Foundry' and explained its model. He shared that 20-30 founders live together in Alibaug and get resources and mentorship to build consumer brands fast.

Sunak asked if they're filming it, and Kamath revealed it's a 7-episode TV show aiming to make entrepreneurs heroes and look business cool. 

Balance and holding paradox

Kamath asked Sunak how he handles paradox, being a quant who likes clarity. Sunak said he's learning to be less rigid, inspired by Akshata's intuitive side. 

"He's the one who thinks things through before acting. I'm the one who sometimes just acts and figures it out later. Together, we balance. And on the biggest decisions - I trust his analysis. And he trusts my instinct," Murty replied. 

Sunak candidly stated that he "could not function" without his marriage, describing his wife as his foundational support.

Here's the full video: