Ralegan Siddhi: While cameras never stopped chasing Anna Hazare after the Lokpal movement, he went into a self-imposed silence. Breaking it after months, he spoke extensively to NDTV in an exclusive from Ralegan Siddhi. Sreenivasan Jain: Sir you are now a well renowned public figure across the country and the world, but you started your journey from this particular village, Ralegan Siddhi, which was a drought prone village that you changed. It is a kind of model that you want to take out from here. So along with politics, which is an important issue, this concept of village self-governance is also a very important idea. How did you come upon this idea and start your journey?
Anna Hazare: Ralegan Siddhi is located in a drought prone area. Here almost 80% of the people were starving. This was barren land.
Sreenivasan Jain: All this green we can see right now...all this was barren land?
Anna Hazare: Yes, this was barren land. 80% of the people would eat only once a day and then sleep hungry. They would travel 6 km just to go and break stones. There was no work, no food, so they started producing alcohol. Soon there were 30-35 liquor shops in the village. So when I came back from the army I came upon the works of Swami Vivekananda and was inspired by it.
Sreenivasan Jain: Which year was this?
Anna Hazare: This was in 1975.
Sreenivasan Jain: In 1975...
Anna Hazare: Yes, 1975.
Sreenivasan Jain: When you left the army?
Anna Hazare: Yes. That was when I thought I would start from my own village itself. Even earlier I used to see the state of my village when I used to come back during my leave. That's why I thought I would start from my own village. And in the village, the rainwater that used to flow away in to the river would then go in to the dam and from there in to the sea. I thought, what is the use of this water being wasted, ending up in the sea. If we had to provide work and food for the village then we should save this rainwater. This is why I started rain water harvesting in the village.
Sreenivasan Jain: What is now known as water shed management.
Anna Hazare: Yes, water shed development and water management.
Sreenivasan Jain: And it wasn't well known in those days?
Anna Hazare: It wasn't understood or known those days. But when I started storing the water and people saw that there was water in the wells. That's when people understood and started working for it. They saw the results.
Sreenivasan Jain: How did you persuade people to accept change? Usually people do not accept change, everyone is busy with their own work, and people lack discipline as well.
Anna Hazare: The reason is because there was a need. If there is no need then people continue will doing their own thing. When there is a need, when they see they have no drinking water, no food to eat, no water for irrigation....when they saw the change, then they understood the need for this new system. Then they came forward to work. We started building dams....First people used to say that the government will come and then they will do the developmental work. Then we explained to people that when government has to spend a single rupee they will take time.
Sreenivasan Jain: So people's power is important? We should not always depend on the government?
Anna Hazare: People's participation. Today our work has failed because we give away everything free of cost. Everything is free and so people sit and wait that this person will come and develop our village, that person will come & develop our village. If that was the case then why are so many villages still in such a poor state?
Sreenivasan Jain: This dependency that the government will subsidize everything, will give handouts...we don't need this. People can transform their own lives...
Anna Hazare: We are the cause of this habit. They were fine in the beginning, but because we wanted to buy votes so we made them like this. You don't have to do anything; we will bring development to your village. And so people sat and waited.
Sreenivasan Jain: How did you tackle the problem of drinking that was here?
Anna Hazare: In the beginning to address the problem of drinking was not possible. When they used to run liquor shops so as to be able to feed themselves...what right did we have to tell them that alcohol is bad, don't drink, don't run liquor shops - how did we have the right? Until we could provide the means for him to feed himself, we had no right to say anything.
Sreenivasan Jain: So what happened after that?
Anna Hazare: So first we did this water shed development, water management. Then they saw results, there was water in the fields, the fields were green, produce increased- only then I addressed the issue of alcoholism...after 2 to 3 years.
Sreenivasan Jain: How did you do that?
Anna Hazare: Now the village was getting the benefits of our programs. So the village panchayat decided that no one would run a liquor shop. Earlier you had a need, now God has given you opportunities, so now why do you need to make alcohol? So the village had decided, but some people surreptitiously continued to deal in alcohol. Then about 40-45 youth of the village came together.
Sreenivasan Jain: Like a united force?
Anna Hazare: Yes. And they went around shutting down these operations. Now people could not come up against these youths, nor could they go and complain at the police station...
Sreenivasan Jain: Because it was an illegal operation...
Anna Hazare: So because of this people had to shut down the liquor shops.
Sreenivasan Jain: But even then did some of the villagers continue to drink?
Anna Hazare: Yes some used to hide and drink...the liquor shops in the village had closed, but some people used to drink outside and then return. Then they used to disturb the peace, behave badly. So it was decided in the village that if anyone misbehaved after drinking then they would be warned the first 3 times because after all, he was one of us.
Sreenivasan Jain: And if he did not see reason?
Anna Hazare: If he did not reform even after being warned 3 times then he would have to go to the temple and take a vow that he would never touch alcohol. Even then if he did not correct his ways then he would be tied to the electric pole outside the temple. This was started by the youth.
Sreenivasan Jain: Tied and...
Anna Hazare: He would be tied and then beaten. Not a lot, a little bit. By tying him up he is also being shamed.
Sreenivasan Jain: So in front of everyone he is being tied up, everyone is watching...
Anna Hazare: But we did this for his own good.
Sreenivasan Jain: If he is being shamed, beaten...then he will understand that what he is doing is wrong.
Anna Hazare: Yes. Today people say that if at that time we had not been tied then they would have ended up destroying their lives.
Sreenivasan Jain: People say it now?
Anna Hazare: Yes that is what they tell me now. But not everyone can do this
Sreenivasan Jain: Yes, it is a very tough job...
Anna Hazare: Yes, it is difficult. For that one has to become like a mother. A mother carries her child for 9 months & suffers all kinds of difficulties during that time. And that child when he grows up and commits a mistake then the mother gives her child a slap. But if a neighbor's child commits a mistake, albeit a bigger mistake, the same mother will not say anything. She won't have it in her to punish another's child because she hasn't done anything for it.
Sreenivasan Jain: He won't even accept it and it'll probably result in a fight.
Anna Hazare: He won't accept it. They'll say who are you to say anything? Then you won't have an answer. So first you have to be a mother to the people.
Sreenivasan Jain: So did you ever punish anybody for breaking the rules?
Anna Hazare: Yes I had to - as a mother.
Sreenivasan Jain: You are the mother, father, headman of the village...
Anna Hazare: Yes. I did not have any ulterior motive in doing it. The village was being destroyed, they were poor, due to alcoholism they were being robbed, children were going hungry, and wives did not have proper clothes to wear. So for their own good I had to do this.
Sreenivasan Jain: Like a little bit of beating, whatever it took.
Anna Hazare: Yes, I had to do it. It is against the law.
Sreenivasan Jain: Yes, beating someone is against the law...
Anna Hazare: It is not right, but I had to do it for their own good. Like a mother whose child is playing in the sun. She tells him "why do you want to die in the sun...come here and die in the shade". She doesn't want him to die...she is after all a mother.
Sreenivasan Jain: So it's because of concern. And it is a mother's right to discipline a child if required.
Anna Hazare: So the volunteers in the village did their work like mothers. Then only change will happen. But you will have to become a mother first.
Sreenivasan Jain: Annaji, you have addressed the problem of alcoholism here in this particular village, but a lot of people believe this is a problem that affects the entire country...so do you think we should take up this issue of prohibition on a wider scale as well?
Anna Hazare: There are 2 things one has to do for this. One is educating the people and creating awareness.
Sreenivasan Jain: Against alcoholism?
Anna Hazare: After all, why do people drink? It's not like there is any proof that if you drink, you will become very healthy. Drinking causes TB & cancer. Even then why do people indulge in it? It's because people have no understanding about life. They don't think about things like who they are, where do they come from, what is their duty in life, where do they have to go. They have a limited view. They think life means just eat and drink, after all eventually you have to die. This why he eats and drinks anything. That is why they need education and awareness.
Sreenivasan Jain: So firstly we need education?
Anna Hazare: Yes, education and awareness. Once he understands the meaning of life then he will automatically mend his ways. But it will take time.
Sreenivasan Jain: Only if this happens then prohibition can be imposed on a national level?
Anna Hazare: When a person's behavior does not change then you need fear...
Sreenivasan Jain: You need the law?
Anna Hazare: Fear. But not everyone can do it, for that you need to become a mother first.
Sreenivasan Jain: How will that happen on a national level?
Anna Hazare: Like a mother goes through so much hardship for her child, and if the child makes a mistake then she even slaps the child. So like that when the volunteers took on the roles of mothers...we have to burn like a lamp & suffer for society and then if someone makes a mistake then there is nothing wrong in punishing him.
Sreenivasan Jain: So you have punished the person, but even then the law allows the sale of alcohol...
Anna Hazare: Not everything can be done by the law. This is the biggest mistake of govt. On the one hand they have opened a department to combat alcoholism, and on the other they have a department for excise.
Sreenivasan Jain: For the sale of alcohol...
Anna Hazare: To impose tax on the production of alcohol. So how does this make sense?
Sreenivasan Jain: And through this they earn crores...
Anna Hazare: So this is a huge mistake on the part of the govt.
Sreenivasan Jain: That is what I am saying...
Anna Hazare: These 2 things are directly opposed to each other. Why do they run both these departments? Close at least one of them. They only run alcohol factories so as to make money. The largest amount of money the government earns is from these alcohol factories.
Sreenivasan Jain: And from the sale of alcohol...through excise...
Anna Hazare: Exactly. And that is all the government sees. But they don't realise that while they may be earning a lot through the excise tax on alcohol, on the other hand there is a much more dangerous trend of the destruction of society and our country. They only keep in mind their 5 years in office and how to stay in power.
Sreenivasan Jain: So why don't you make this an issue? Why not have a national ban or campaign on prohibition?
Anna Hazare: I have made this an issue and taken it up with the govt. There is a booklet we have made. Read it. It is about what the government has done to address the issue of alcohol due to our campaign.
Sreenivasan Jain: Would you want this to be banned on a national scale if possible?
Anna Hazare: Yes, it should be done. Because it is not essential for our bodies. Food is essential, alcohol is not.
Sreenivasan Jain: Alcohol is different, it is for pleasure...
Anna Hazare: It is destructive.
Sreenivasan Jain: Annaji, you have also brought about another change in the culture here by putting a stop to TV, beedis and cigarettes....
Anna Hazare: We don't want to be strict on these matters of beedi, cigarettes, khayni. Only emphasis is on people's education & awareness. What happens to people after eating khayni, how it causes cancer, how it rots your mouth. This awareness has to be spread. Change that is brought about by force is not permanent.
Sreenivasan Jain: So for this awareness is needed?
Anna Hazare: Yes, awareness is needed
Sreenivasan Jain: And what about TV?
Anna Hazare: Again awareness is important. It's not that people should not watch TV. TV is also needed. So many nice programmes on agriculture come these days.
Sreenivasan Jain: Your own campaign was telecast on TV. If that had not happened then so many people would not have got to know about your movement.
Anna Hazare: TV is necessary.
Sreenivasan Jain: But what are the negative aspects of watching TV? We ourselves are from the media so we should understand this...
Anna Hazare: Like if there is a doctor and someone gets cancer. So then the doctor operates and removes the infected part. Similarly TV is not bad. People should concentrate on the good aspects of TV. They should watch the programmes on science, development, on RTI.
Sreenivasan Jain: So what is it that people shouldn't watch on TV?
Anna Hazare: The kind of programmes that exposes children to sex should not be watched. Today all these cases of crime against women, girls being kidnapped, are all a result of TV.
Sreenivasan Jain: Like adult programmes...
Anna Hazare: This is wrong. Now, like teenage girls are getting raped and abused. Why is this happening? This is happening because of TV. This exposure to sex is leading to the abuse of girls and women. It is wrong to show these things but then how will you put a stop to it?
Sreenivasan Jain: Annaji, one problem is that people believe that we are not a very disciplined country. There is a lack of discipline in everything. You have been very adamant that discipline must be enforced at all costs. Do you think this is one of our weaknesses?
Anna Hazare: In our country because of the army's discipline we still have something left. If they weren't disciplined then by now Pakistan would have entered our country. Discipline is necessary.
Sreenivasan Jain: Army teaches discipline.
Anna Hazare: Yes. But you shouldn't do it with force. You shouldn't pressurize people to be disciplined. Discipline here should be brought about through educating people and spreading awareness, not through strictness. The case at the border is different.
Sreenivasan Jain: The strong stand we take against Pakistan is a different matter?
Anna Hazare: That is a different matter. What we have to do during war is a separate matter. Here bringing in education and awareness is important. Right now the most important issue is that we give our children good values. People think that by sending their children to good educational institutions they will imbibe good values. Children don't get good values from institutions. Each family needs to become an environment for imparting the right values. When this happens, only then will children develop the right values. The values of the family, the educational institutions, the general environment is what leads to children becoming good human beings.
Sreenivasan Jain: Are religious values also important then?
Anna Hazare: Religion is important. But just wearing a garland or holding sacred beads in your hand or putting a tikka is not being religious. All faiths, leaders of all faiths say that helping the poor is equal to serving God. If you want to find God, then in addition to looking for him inside the 4 walls of a temple, a mosque, a church or a gurudwara, you must also see your village and your country as a temple. And by serving people, you are serving God.
Sreenivasan Jain: Now you stay in a temple, so people attribute a religious aspect to you, that you represent a particular region...is that the case?
Anna Hazare: I live in a temple, I wear a mala but I don't have time to recite verses or pray.
Sreenivasan Jain: You are so busy...
Anna Hazare: By just closing your eyes and praying nothing is going to happen. To serve those who are unhappy, who are suffering, that is actually serving God. That is the kind of prayer that I do.
Sreenivasan Jain: People of other faiths like Muslims and Christians look at you and wonder if there is space for them also in this revolution of yours?
Anna Hazare: It is for everyone. This temple of ours is open to everyone. It is open to people from all faiths, from all walks of life, whether they are Muslim, Christian...anybody.
Sreenivasan Jain: What you are saying is right. But when the RSS said that they support you then people got worried. Is it like that?
Anna Hazare: What RSS? In front of God all are equal, whether it is the Koran, the Guru Granth Sahib, the Bible or the Geeta all follow the principle of humanity
Sreenivasan Jain: But there are those who do not follow this belief. Some believe that the RSS is one of those who do not follow this principle, that they encourage the divisions in society. What do you feel?
Anna Hazare: True. That is why I stay away from them.
Sreenivasan Jain: You stay away?
Anna Hazare: We must think of all people as one. And I don't agree with those who try to encourage differences amongst people. All of us together have to build this nation.
Sreenivasan Jain: Do you believe this group, the RSS, instigates differences in society?
Anna Hazare: I don't say this about them. I don't believe it is right to blame anyone. It is a free country. Everyone has rights. Everyone can behave the way they want to. So who am I to stop them?
Sreenivasan Jain: So you are saying that let everyone do what they want, but you will stay away?
Anna Hazare: Yes. What I think is wrong I stay away from.
Sreenivasan Jain: It is amazing the change you've brought about in this village. A lot of people study the model of Ralegan Siddhi, some have even done their PhDs on it. But now you have become much bigger than Ralegan Siddhi. You have now become a national leader. On one hand your beliefs and teachings are available to a larger audience, but on the other there are also negative things that are brought up, which you may or may not have anything to do with. So do you think there are pluses and minuses to your situation? Has this kind of thing happened to you?
Anna Hazare: These things keep happening. I don't worry about it. There are a few things that are important. Like this campaign we have.
Sreenivasan Jain: On Lokpal...
Anna Hazare: Everyone is doing a different thing. So many charges are leveled against people, and then counter charges are put forward. I am not concerned with all that. If you have good intent, good thoughts, a clean life, charity, the ability to swallow insults, and if you are following the path of truth, then no matter what anyone says, it doesn't make any difference.
Sreenivasan Jain: What drew you to this movement? When Arvind and the others came to you...how did you get involved? I know you have worked for the Right to Information Act, especially the Maharashtra Right to Information act, a long time and are responsible for it in a big way, but what drew you to this movement?
Anna Hazare: I've been working for this for many years. But this time I realised that corruption is not only limited to Maharashtra, it is all over the country. Arvind had also been working for the Right to Information act for a long time. So we started working together. Then when I read the draft for the Jan Lokpal, which was being made to stop corruption, then I realised how much strength it had. That's when I said that this has to be done. Then we all came together, and then we kept working to promote the draft. So I felt this draft was very important to put a stop to the corruption rampant in the country.
Sreenivasan Jain: So you felt this was a big issue, and that you had to expand your base from just Maharashtra to the entire country?
Anna Hazare: This Jan Lokpal bill is important for the country. So we started this campaign...each job is a teacher. Whatever work you take up you will see that that the work itself will then teach you how to move ahead and show you the path. I am not an engineer, but I did the water shed developmental work here. What an engineer couldn't do, I did. Now people are copying our techniques across the country.
Sreenivasan Jain: So it kept spreading...?
Anna Hazare: Exactly. When we started work on the Jan Lokpal bill then we came across the right to reject and realised that it was also very important. Right to...
Sreenivasan Jain: Recall...
Anna Hazare: Recall is ofcourse further ahead, but decentralisation is also very important. It is very important to bring about a change in our election system
Sreenivasan Jain: Electoral reforms is a very important issue.
Anna Hazare: Very important issue. As we started understanding these issues we started taking them forward.
Sreenivasan Jain: On the issue of Jan Lokpal, Parliament is about to start this week - are you satisfied with the stage it has reached or do you still have some doubts?
Anna Hazare: As of now we don't know. The Standing Committee is still discussing it.
Sreenivasan Jain: Yes. You had also gone for that.
Anna Hazare: From the Standing Committee it will go to the Parliament. We will then see what the Parliament and the Government accepts and rejects from the bill. If it is not drafted in a way that benefits the people, then we will again go to the Ramlila grounds, we will again protest. If we have to make India corruption free we will have to protest.
Sreenivasan Jain: If they bring a weak bill...?
Anna Hazare: Yes. If they bring a weak bill then we will protest again.
Sreenivasan Jain: You even wrote a letter to the Prime Minister that you have some doubts. Your own ministers are saying that what you had promised said does not seem to be coming through.Anna Hazare i: We have decided, infact I have sworn that until I am alive, I will continue to fight against corruption. People die of heart attacks but I will be honored to die in the service of the nation and its people.
Sreenivasan Jain: No no Annaji by the grace of God nothing like this should happen to you.
Anna Hazare: No that is what I have decided.
Sreenivasan Jain: You will not move away from this movement?
Anna Hazare: Not at all. If a weak Jan Lokpal is brought in and it is not for the welfare of the people...
Sreenivasan Jain: Do you think they will bring in a weak Lokpal?
Anna Hazare: We don't know that yet. It is still being discussed. The day the Standing Committee report goes to the Parliament and the debate begins there, then we will have a better idea.
Sreenivasan Jain: You still stick to your position that the lower bureaucracy, that is from top to bottom, needs to come under its purview?
Anna Hazare: Absolutely. It is a question of the poor. Many countries have corruption but many like America and Russia have it at the top level. In our country it is down to the lowest level - for ration or gas. These issues impact the poor so to remove that the lower bureaucracy has to be included.
Sreenivasan Jain: Some people say that you can't control it through this as you would need 10,000 people for the Central Lokpal and each Lokayukta would need 7,000-8,000 people so ultimately you would need about a lakh and a half officials for Lokpal.
Anna Hazare: This is just to divert from the topic. It shows a lack of sincerity. If you say we'll do it, then you'll see what a difference it will make.
Sreenivasan Jain: You think you can find so many honest people?
Anna Hazare: We don't need to find honest people. We can use the people we have currently. Right now the people who are under the Government collude. If we find a strong Lokpal, who will fine those who don't work properly or find out information on time. If there is strictness, everyone will work properly.
Sreenivasan Jain: You have to be tough...
Anna Hazare: Unless you make a strict law, the corruption won't stop. The law has to be tough. There are corrupt people because the laws are not strict. Even after 65 years they have not managed to make a tough law.
Sreenivasan Jain: You had once said that sometimes you feel they should be hanged.
Anna Hazare: I felt that way when I used to see how difficult it is for poor people to survive. Then I would feel these people should be hanged at crossroads.
Sreenivasan Jain: Whether it is politicians or others?
Anna Hazare: But now our position has changed. Everyone feels hanging is not correct as I follow Gandhi and also mention hanging. So now maybe not hanging.
Sreenivasan Jain: But you do feel sometimes that they should be hanged?
Anna Hazare: Yeah.
Sreenivasan Jain: Annaji there is not much clarity on one thing. You said that all those who do not support Lokpal, you will start a campaign against them. But earlier you had clearly said that you would be against Congress as it is a Congress Government. In Hisar you campaigned against them. What will you do in the forthcoming elections?
Anna Hazare: Not only Congress, we will see the Parliament proceedings. Whichever side and party does not support it, we will campaign against them.
Sreenivasan Jain: You will?
Anna Hazare: Yes. We will tell the people why they are voting for them? When these people are against the anti-corruption law of Jan Lokpal, why are you voting for them?
Sreenivasan Jain: Whether it is the BJP or Congress?
Anna Hazare: Whoever it is. I will go around the country.
Sreenivasan Jain: You will take names and then campaign against them?
Anna Hazare: Yes we will find out soon who all are supporting and who are not. When the national elections come, I will tour the whole country and tell everyone.
Sreenivasan Jain: But before that are the Assembly elections.
Anna Hazare: I will go to the 5 states but we'll also have to go during the national elections.
Sreenivasan Jain: You will have to do it?
Anna Hazare: Yes.
Sreenivasan Jain: Lastly I just want to ask you, are you satisfied with your team, when you hear things whether it is about Kiran Bedi or Arvind?
Anna Hazare: Many people have spent crores of rupees to break our team. Crores of rupees. People in electronic media, print media, everyone was pitted against us.
Sreenivasan Jain: We are not opposite you.
Anna Hazare: But I want to say that nobody in our team is a bad person or corrupt or steals from others or working for their good. We don't have anyone like that. No matter how much they tried to break our team, it won't break.
Sreenivasan Jain: When you heard the allegations against Kiran Bedi and how she kept the ticket money, did you believe them or not?
Anna Hazare: It is all made up. Ok I accept there might have been a difference in the amount, even she agreed to that but did she spend that money in her house? Did she do it out of greed?
Sreenivasan Jain: You're saying she did it for a public cause?
Anna Hazare: She is spending all the money for the benefit of the people. She does not keep anything for herself. If she is spending for the good of the society, then what is the harm? People point fingers at Kiran Bedi but all the parties according to the law don't need to declare donations above 20,000 and today they have collected crores of rupees through this.
Sreenivasan Jain: Black money...
Anna Hazare: Changed black money into white and then roam around in helicopters. Why do you not raise that issue?
Sreenivasan Jain: Then why are you reconstituting your team? You have said that you will bring in more people, what is the reason for that? Do you think something is missing?
Anna Hazare: No no if we have to work for the whoel country, how will just 5 people do? We will need more people. So we will add more people who will work in the entire country.
Sreenivasan Jain: So you will get more Muslims, Dalits and all others?
Anna Hazare: Yes yes all castes will be there but not because of their caste. They should be good persons and qualified as well.
Sreenivasan Jain: You are clear on one thing, you will not fight elections neither will any of your team members. If the public demands that you should stand?
Anna Hazare: No matter how much people tempt us, we will not fight elections. We will not go with any side or party.
Sreenivasan Jain: Is there any current politician whom you respect? Whom you think is not corrupt, like Manmohan Singh. Though you fought him on the issue of Lokpal but many people find him clean. Do you agree?
Anna Hazare: We have not received any complaint.
Sreenivasan Jain: He is fine?
Anna Hazare: No complaint against him has come regarding corruption.
Sreenivasan Jain: He hasn't done any himself, though there might be corruption within the Government. That is a separate thing.
Anna Hazare: That is different.
Sreenivasan Jain: Personally he is clean...
Anna Hazare: What can he do alone?
Sreenivasan Jain: Any other politicians? Rahul Gandhi is at the forefront these days. Any thoughts on him?
Anna Hazare: What should I say about him? When I see his work, I will say something.
Sreenivasan Jain: So are there any clean politicians?
Anna Hazare: I don't know that since I have never gone into politics. When I see it closely, I will know.
Sreenivasan Jain: At the end coming to Maharashtra, you have spearheaded many movements here. What do you think is the situation here?
Anna Hazare: Compared to other states, Maharashtra is slightly better.
Sreenivasan Jain: In conclusion, you have been a follower of Vivekananda, I read in your biography that there was a point when you contemplated suicide and Vivekananda's teachings gave you strength. Tell us a little about that time as it is unimaginable for us to think that.
Anna Hazare: The thing was that I saw people toiling all around, working from morning to night. All their life people keep working and at the end, nothing. What was the point of all that was the question infront of me.
Sreenivasan Jain: But you felt suicidal? It was there somewhere in your biography. That you wanted to end your life?
Anna Hazare: No no when I was thinking of these questions I realised that nobody can escape death and everyone will die empty hand. One didn't bring anything and won't take back anything, then what is the point of life in the middle. The point of life. That is why I thought I should commit suicide.
Sreenivasan Jain: Then?
Anna Hazare: When I read Vivekananda's book, then I realised that humans got life to serve others. Service of the nation and society. what is the benefit? There is pleasure in service.
Sreenivasan Jain: And then your feelings changed?
Anna Hazare: Yes and then my thoughts on suicide changed and then I decided to dedicate my life in service of the nation and people.
Sreenivasan Jain: That is our good fortune to have that and thanks very much for talking to us. All the very best for your movement. Thank you very much.