trade, economy, defence and cultural cooperation were the main topics of discussion between Prime Minister Modi and Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman al South during the latter state visit. During the high profile meeting at Delhi's Hyderabad house, the two leaders co chaired the first leaders meeting of the Strategic Partnership Council. A bilateral agreement between India and Saudi Arabia, signed by the two nations in Riyadh in 2019 for India Saudi Arabia counts as one of its closest biggest strategic partners is what the prime minister said India Saudi Arabia partnership is crucial for stability, welfare of the region and the world. As far as the G 20 is concerned, we have also seen a huge presence of Saudi Arabia Over there. There is cooperation to build the future of our country and create opportunities. Today we are working on the future opportunities. There is a huge agenda to be working with. We are working through this council to achieve these accomplishments and these are promising and I congratulate you on the management of the G 20 Summit and the initiatives achieved, including the economic corridor linking the Middle East, India and Europe which require that we work diligently in order to create it into a reality. Indians in Saudi Arabia had a large part in the economic growth of Saudi Arabia. Today they are 7% of the population of Saudi Arabia and we consider them to be a part of Saudi Arabia. We watch and take care of the like. We take care of our own citizens. We hope that this council will meet the aspirations of our people and we wish our success joining us now to focus on the India Saudi Arabia relationship. I'm joined by Dr Shubha Choudhary, editor for the Centre for India West Asia Dialogue. Thanks very much for being with us. Dr. Rana is director for the Centre for India West Asia Dialogue in New Delhi and very happy to have with US Professor Zur Rahman, the former ambassador and director of the India Arab Centre. Let's start with the big news on the possibility of, in fact, it's not a possibility it's going to happen. A massive mega economic corridor between Europe and India. Firstly, let's talk about the basics. How exactly, sir? Is it going to work? This is a game changing thing which is going to happen. In the last many years, especially, the region has been attracted by the Chinese BR I and many countries they any of us saying that they are easily connected with them and they were being promised with the huge benefits of the BR I. But the these benefits did did not come as they were expected. So, uh, in the last few years, India and Middle East trade, especially non oil trade, has expanded much. And with this in view, India and Europe relations India and Middle East relations and especially India's fine balancing between India, Saudi Arabia, all the Arab countries and Israel has also worked very well. So it was an opportunity for both India and West Asia, especially the Arab countries, to to have a connectivity project in which all countries can play a role in a way that also answers or which also reduce the dependency of smaller countries on this Chinese project. So this is happening in a way that is democratising the trade space among the countries which was dominated by China. Let me just get you in on this in simple terms. What does this imply? Are we looking at at fuel flows coming into India. Are we looking at a more stable Internet through under sea cables? What exactly how exactly will this work for us? So this is not energy or, you know, Internet, etcetera. Let me tell you what exactly it is basically the revival of spice root. If you see that in the past there was a route that Indian Indian spices, Indian silk and, uh, you know, Indian pears were being purchased by the Arabs, and the Arabs were taking it to, uh, from India to their own country. And from there they were exporting it to Europe. This was exactly the, uh, system that was going. It was only, you know, in the 19th century that the British had tried to take, uh, you know, in their own hand. And they tried to be intermediary. And instead of directly having a trade between India's Arab world and Europe, they had taken and they had controlled it, right? So, II, I so So it is just a revival of the old spice route in order to ensure that all the trade it is not only the energy, all the trade that starts from India, all the trade, which are, uh, you know, they are in the Middle East or in the, uh in the West Asia. So we should continue and we should start again, reintroduce the same thing, see how from India the whole thing will go or the or the Indian products. Indian producers will go from here to United Emirates and from U it will go to Saudi Arabia, from Saudi Arabia to Jordan, from Jordan to Israel. You know, E A and from there to European countries. So just to be sure, its data to oil, gas to goods. So it is all of these. It is all of these, right? It is. It's more than just the original spice fruit. It's very substantial in terms of what it proposes. So now, of course, with the with the new things that are coming up. So it is more than that. Energy is a part of it. So that's what I was pointing out. So, ma'am, what else in specific terms would India stand to gain from this and vice versa. So the first question, I think, why did it happen and the timing of it. So when China was involved in creating a rapprochement or easing our tension between Iran and Saudi Arabia. That is when the NSA advisor of US, India and all met and decided that there has to be an economic corridor along with a new cord in the Middle East or West Asia, which includes Israel. In the new court, it will be Israel, Saudi Arabia, U. If there there is a peaceful part of Ibrahim accords, then the I two U two. Now what exactly is this happening for? First, the diaspora of India? 2.6 million Indians who are there in Saudi Arabia connected The Gujarat coast will be connected to the coast of Jeddah. It is investing, costing an investment of $18 billion along with it the natural hydrogen clean energy cables that would be set up underground, which would be connecting the Indian Ocean. Because, as I said before that, the ripples of what happened in the South China Sea all the regional powers and superpowers are scared about it, and the third most important thing is that in today's effort in today's day and time, when the US is trying to take a step back from West Asia in terms of military. It still still needs to create some kind of power, which is not geopolitics but geo economics in today's. So these are very essential when it comes to navigating what it means. And it's going to make a massive investment for India well as well as all the countries that are involved, because it is also the emergence of a world which does not or would not like to trade in dollar. It is also the emergence of a world which is much more multipolar, much more symbiotic, realistic nature and also the identities and interests of people much more a fluidity. When it comes in a world which is in a world which is now fighting for economic protectionism, it is trying to create its own narrative. Dr Anna, What I find interesting is also what the US president had to say. And I quote, This is a big deal. This is really a big deal, a game changing regional investment, building sustainable, resilient infrastructure, making quality infrastructure investments and creating a better future, a future that presents far greater opportunity. You know, when we talk about resilient supply chains, it's a phrase which is used for everything from semiconductors to fuel, et cetera, et cetera. But this is actually ensuring that a lifeline, the economic lifeline which exists between India and several of the countries we've discussed is protected and enhanced. First of all, I think that what we need to understand is that India is going to be the central country of this entire project. India is going to be the hub of all things. Things will be produced here. China used to be, and it still dominates the entire supply chain. So any brief disruption in this supply chain can can question the food security to everything. So, uh, replacing, uh, I'm not going to say that India can replace China immediately, but we indeed need a country where other countries can can rely more. So India is going to be that kind of a place for the entire region, especially for West Asia and from West Asia to European countries. So in this sense, yes. What we are going to become and what this project is going to become is to provide a secure and resilient infrastructure for for, uh, from food security to to to other infrastructure, including digital infrastructure, which we are talking about. So in this sense, this project is indeed as president. Biden has also said game changing. So what I find interesting is that if you look at maritime safety and security and which is incredibly linked with economic prospects, the Chinese have already got a base in Djibouti. They're looking to step up and create infrastructure. They already are in Wa in Pakistan. India is countering that with an investment in jab in Iran. And now India is perhaps countering that with the creation of this linkage with Jeddah directly, Uh, so therefore is could you tell us a little bit about the maritime domain? Uh, how? This is part of an effort at controlling the growth of China in the Indian Ocean region. Look, it's not only controlling the growth of China, but we have to What we are looking we, as as Indians we are looking is the larger Indian interest. Basically, our larger interest is that our maritime links should be with the West Asia as as with Europe. Now, you know, in the past, also we had, you know, through the Red Sea, the trade if you see thousands of years back, you know Indian pearls and Indian. You know, precious stones were being exported to Egypt during the time, so there was a maritime trade between India and the Red Sea countries. So this is an old thing. The only thing is, as I am very right from the beginning, I'm saying that we should not see it as a new initiative in order to see we should see it as a revival of this initiative. So, uh, doctor, um, could you tell us a little bit about how there are changed? Geopolitics now in West Asia, also with Israel, the relationship between, for example, the UE and Israel is changing. It is. And I think India has a small stake in that in In the evolution of that relationship, it's unthinkable. It's unthinkable. Uh, you know the status today and what it was even what three years ago? How is that actually the cog that needs to be sorted for this to really work? It is very important because, as you know, the Middle East Food corridor, which is going to be established in which both Israel and U, along with India and US, are involved. It is very essential because this entire region is in the desert and the food security is very very. The tensions over there are very palpable. With the Ukraine Russia conflict. It is the amount of rice that they import the cost of it. It has gone very high now coming to how India for the past. Since Prime Minister Modi's decoupled visit to Israel and Palestine separately, India has not only in intelligence, military and technical alliances with Israel but also in agriculture, food imports. Organic farming created a certain kind of bilateral paradigm with Israel. With U a India is the largest partner trading, so it's very, very essential that both of them come together and they are able to navigate these specifically through the Indian Ocean, the power balancing properly because, as you said, along with Jeddah, India is also investing a lot in Tanzania and Zanzibar. So Mauritius, Madagascar and your entire eastern coast of Africa all of them are very important when it comes to this entire navigation. Now we have always been known for creating peace in the domain for harnessing or not being aligned to any power zone by being a silent broker or being a mediator silently in these kinds of deals. We are getting a higher leverage when it comes to geopolitics. But at the same time, India is trying to become a regional power hub in the South Asian region itself. We are selling B 52 artillery missiles to Saudi Arabia, Larsen and to has gained $4 billion contract in Saudi Arabia. We are investing a lot in this entire paradigm, which is changing its face. The geopolitics of emotions are not changing into much more practical insights of how, along with soft power, artificial intelligence, intelligence, digital free zones and the entire navigation of technology can help in countering the Western oriented approach at which, or the Orientalist approach at which all these countries were always looked at. Dr. Anna, let's just break this down a little bit more with undersea pipelines. What are we looking for? We are looking for the flow of crude from the Middle East to India. I mean, as I understand it, resilient infrastructure networks as well. Um, And then there is the rail link. Is India going to have a role in the construction of the rail network? If so, I mean, it's a mega project, definitely India. India has a big stake in building infrastructure in the entire Persian Gulf region. Of course, there was an Iran Pakistan India pipeline which has been left because of impractical issues which were involved there. So India sought some alternative ways and this is one of them because the Persian Gulf, and especially the Gulf nations, are the fastest growing region in entire West Asia, and especially in terms of non oil GDP. Also, they are growing much, and India is the fastest growing economy in Asia in South Asia. So if these two regions are going to be linked and coming closer, so these two economies are going to be integrated. So this integration of economy of two economies is going to create a new reality in all domains, from food security to digital infrastructure, to trade and non oil trade and of course, security, which is one of the most important things which I think the Western world really needs, that India play an important role in securing the region. Sure, we'll just take a short break at this stage. It is a fascinating project, an economic link between a direct one between Europe in the West India to the east. But I think when we talk about India and Saudi Arabia, there's a lot more in this relationship. It's a historic relationship, so we'll come back with a few more details of where that relationship stands. Welcome back. We are looking at our special programme connecting countries. We are talking about India and Saudi Arabia. It's a historic relationship, a relationship ultimately built on people in Saudi Arabia and in India. You know, there's that historic link with the HUD, of course, Professor Raban. But the role of Indian immigrants to Saudi Arabia is also something that we need to talk about. Um, you know, the transfer of of wealth investment from Saudi Arabia through NR I to India is huge. Absolutely so. Two aspects of my question. There's the HUD number one and number two, the role of Indians in helping to be a part of and in building Saudi Arabia. Well, Haj has always played an important role in strengthening ties between India and the Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is the Arabian Peninsula is the biggest peninsula, and Saudi Arabia has the huge waste like weight, like in like in the subcontinent. India has that is one number two is that the pilgrims which were going right from the beginning of the Islam Till now, you know, today. Today we have around 100 and 75,000 only hu pilgrims which go each year. And then there are around 200,000 pilgrims, which is a semi, as you can say so, 300 to 400,000 every year they go to and Medina and to Saudi Arabia. And there are a lot of, uh, you know, economic. It brings a lot of economic prosperity, even in Saudi Arabia, to the to the traders, to the businessmen and all those things. So therefore, these relations have always played an important role in strengthening the bilateral relations between the two Indian community, of course, has participated. What we see today the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The contribution of Indians, Indian engineers, Indian scientists, Indian doctors, Indian paramedics, the huge contribution by them to see uh, the to ensure the progress and prosperity of Saudi Arab. They have They have already participated in that we had you know Ibrahim Qazi? Yeah. Who was the director? First director of NSD. He was a Saudi national right. So he had I mean, his His contribution to Indian art Indian Theatre, you know, is is huge. No, no, Absolutely. So that historic link is so very important. Would you like to tell me a little bit about futuristic cities? Because in as much as we value the past, let's talk about the future as well. Uh, either the city of new, uh, is something is a city which is being developed. Saudi Arabia has a real vision of its cities. A real idea. Uh, could you tell us a little bit about that? Go ahead, sir. Uh, let me say first of all, India and Saudi Arabia, relations have been quite strong, even from before Islam as well and very historical relations. And I must also say that we as Indians and of course, in Saudi Arabia we have not paid much attention to research these relations. How strong they were from here, We What we can say is that Saudi Arabia, and especially the Crown prince vision for 2030 to rebrand Saudi economy. What? I say that Saudi Arabia is trying to make a post oil economy. Saudi A P does not want to rely does not want to be dependent and vulnerable to oil economy because the entire energy economy is changing. So these futuristic cities, be it N or other cities with Saudi Conn. Is trying to planning to build, are going to play an important role in bringing out a new Saudi Arabia, which will be I should not say it will be. They will be similar to to to to Dubai. But they will indeed be based on a skill based, knowledge based economy and a new kind of knowledge economy, which is going to emerge in the desert. Sure, ma'am and ma'am, since I'm running out of time, could you tell me a little bit more about these futuristic cities? Cities like New? What do they aspire to be? So what exactly is the meaning of neon? So neo is a Greek word, which means that paradise or new paradise and M is from the Arabic bird Mukalla, which is the future they are going to. They have already invested 400 billions in the formation of the city. It will be larger than the size of Israel or Quebec. They are going to have helicopters which are made by Germany, uh, which are personal air taxis. They're expecting 12 million Indians to start coming to because tourist visas are now available easily. Apart from that, there are also there will be no carbon footprint. They are there will be no cars, zero carbon emissions, green hydrogen plants will be fulfilled. And all of these are the visions that they are going to have no cars, only helicopters Now. The point is, my and other cities which are in the hindsight of the development of Saudi Arabia and MB project the future, which is obviously they are very aware of the depletion of oil resources. So they are creating it, and it is a mixture of artificial intelligence, smart cities and zero carbon footprint. Fantastic. Look, I'd like to thank you all very much for being with us. It is such an important relationship for India at so many levels. There's a historic aspect of all of this, but there's also the futuristic relationship and of course, trade and the economy centre to it all. Thank you very much for being with us for the moment. It's time for this short break
