the big breaking storey. Right now, Russia will radically reduce its military activity in northern Ukraine, including near the capital Kiev and the other city of Chen Eve after breakthrough in talks in Istanbul. Moscow's negotiators giving that news right now Visual storm continues to be with us on that Big storey were also being joined by boat on a high low. The acting Chief editor of the Kiev Post. Mr. Nyla, your first reactions to the developments out of Eastern Bowl right now. Do you believe these are significant? No, I don't think it's significant list. And don't be taken in by Russian propaganda. The Russians have invaded Ukraine. They say they are pulling back from Keven Shit. Knew they still want to occupy Crimea. And all of the Donbass. They are invaders. They are killing thousands of my people. They are bombing my cities and the fact that they are now peace agents of peace. You Indians should be taken in by this. You should know that this is much more serious. I Russian propaganda This with me for a sec. It is Russians and Russian speakers writing Russian invaders. Your propaganda this before me gave the impression that it was a liberating Russian speakers. Rubbish. Why do you'd have such people on your programme way? We are propagandists and I we get gets your crop again began There are different spec Cherie of cheque. But I don't try to be objective. We are we are objective and it only do two about a but Russia it share that with us. And the question is this Do see this as being a start to a peace. We are. We understand the point that you're talking about to get on here. I want to say to you that Russia is about to collapse on the sanctions under the fact that 18,000 of its people have been killed in action. Ohh is in deep shit as we stay in England and so they have to make the impression that they are going for peace. Now Russia is in big problems. The West is united against IQ. You guys are sitting on the fence. It's usually a you yourselves know that crazy man in the Kremlin with this finger on the nuclear button, which is also a threat to U. N six, China and Pakistan. So let's be fair and think about what's actually happening. Russia is having serious problems. It's not one an easy blitzkrieg over in three days. Try once a place saving way out, it's in deep trouble. Let's talk exactly about what you are talk talking about. Russia may be looking for a face saving way out of this. Firstly, a threat. Me. Ask the questions. I the it being don't speaks for government. You have independent journalists. You buy a this interview country that in only place if you are asking, you try to be neutral. You are on a commoner. I don't we don't. For anybody, we are independent. Journalist is proper. Regrettably, you too, because you're not willing to take questions. I'm sorry, sir, this interview ends right now. Killing, trying to ask questions. You aren't willing to answer those questions at all rank? Ada. What I do actually want to move on to over here is to look in fact at a map. And if he can just bring the map up, I want to actually talk about what might in fact, be a very important step forward in the path to peace. Now what we actually see. Let's let's bring the map of Ba hijacked. So what, you can actually see this is the These are the boundaries of Ukraine that you see on your screen right now, the areas and whiter areas where Russian forces have actually been dominating. These are areas which the Russian forces have held now within all of these areas there are parts which have been deeply contested. But in just the last 24 hours, plus or so in the area to the west of Kiev and to the area well to the east of Kiev in thrashed yon it's and in the air pin region What we had do actually see are huge sign of a fight back by Ukrainian forces and the liberation of er pin is particularly significant. Why? Because part of the strategy of Russia was to encircle the capital Kiev in the policy of of in circling is something which they've been trying to do laying a siege all across the area. Er pin was actually key to this because if Russian forces were to continue to add to the area that the whole presently outside Kiev, then it would have been a further problem for Kiev itself. So if this area has been liberated then and these areas over here let's zoom in for a moment. The areas over here to the north of er pin remain contested as well because there is Ukrainian counter offensives in this area. If you look to the east of Cave, zoom in over here because what I want to show our these areas over here These continued to be contested by Ukraine is human. If you can zoom in on the camera, please zoom in on the shots of the Reckon Actually show this right. These are areas which are contested as well. And so the Ukrainian counter attack happens over here Now what our previous guest was actually talking about If we just soup out over here is this area This area is zoom out refer of this place. This area is actually the Donbass area. This area is the Donbass area. These are the areas where a great deal of this is the area which is a separatist area, a Russian separatist control This there is that the two cities of Donetsk and Lugansk in this particular area. Vladimir Putin has declared the independence of these areas. Ukraine has always said that this is territory which is entirely there. Now it is along this front. It is broadly along this front, right going along. That's where the bulk of Ukrainian forces are deployed. And that is where the Russians are actually trying to move in. The Russians are trying to come in in this direction. West. The Ukrainians are holding the line. Russia, actually at this juncture saying that look, we need to move our forces potentially away from the Kiev area means that the might try and consolidate their forces over here, in other words, possibly encircle the Ukrainian forces who are deployed in this particular region by coming in in this direction and to try and cut them off. If they are able to do this, then their hold over this entire areas, the Donbass region, which seek to expand somewhat westwards, gets further consolidated. So that's what is one aspect of this. Another key aspect of this is something we were saying. Despite the siege of cities like Kiev or of towns like Kerpen, which has now been liberated, or of frosty on its or of cares on or of Mario poll, the fighting by the Ukrainians is has been quite something in these areas. They continue to take out Russian tanks, soldiers and armoured personnel carriers. So despite the siege, I mean, these are areas which have been encircled. The Ukrainians continue to fight. It is very much a David. Worse is go light area. Carson is an area which is contested at the stage. It was believed to be largely under Russian influence, but the latest information is that it is also a deeply contested area. So what we are actually seeing at this juncture it's a huge development coming out of Turkey y turkey because that's where these talks are taking place between Russia and Ukraine, the leadership of Turkey. Facilitating that. And there is this conversation now of a serious de escalation by Russian forces from the Kiev area. Now Ankara one final point beforehand, back to you. And I know that you know that that there's so much over here to talk about and I must they are. I am naturally excited in having covered this so closely because is this the beginning of a sign of peace in this area? It is. It is a cat assist. You know that that's the point, I'd like you to elaborate on a little further. In what way would you say this is sort of significantly different from earlier rounds of talks when also they have been sort of signs of encouragement. But in the last couple of days, we've also actually heard Russia saying, shifting the goalposts as it was saying that focus is no longer on Kiev talking about just liberation of Donbass and so on. So would you say that the Russians are working a different talk right now as well? The Russian started talk a walking a different talk a couple of days back when they started talking about that Donbass area, which I described and saying that their original objective was the consolidation of that Donbass area. Remember, they declared that area to be independent. These were separatist areas backed by Russian forces. Russia says they're independent states at this. We are an independent state at this juncture. So that was the first side again. Russia saying that remember what original objective was that gave an indicator that perhaps Russia was looking to move the bulk of their military forces to the east of the country? The question is What? Where would that leave give now If you don't capture Kiev, the you don't get Ukraine. That's the bottom line over here. So if the Russians were to re deploy their forces further to the east, they were actually in circle Ukrainian forces who are over there. So there would still be a military fight taking place over there. But the fact that the capital of Ukraine would potentially see far less violence going forward and the city of tentative that I would suggest is the biggest and most important statement made by the Russian so far. Will they actually continue to walked? The or you know will be be having this conversation, perhaps a week 10 days later, one of the questions that were being raised by the Ukrainian journalist we had earlier on the show, dismissing it as a Russian propaganda. But let's actually find out at this point exactly what transpired at those peace talks in Istanbul were being joined by Melinda Nucifora, journalist from Istanbul. Melinda, thank you for speaking with NDTV. Can you Can you can you give us details of what? What has now been said by both sides? This has been a very interesting in development because unlike previous negotiations, when for its sides of wraps up which hopes, saying it's been a very difficult day of discussions today we had the Russian and the Ukrainian delegation leaving the meeting sank. It was constructive and we also heard from the Turkish Foreign minister Navon Chamu hollowed saying that this is the most progress that the delegations have made to this point. So all signs are pointing towards very positive outcomes in the next short while what we know is that Ukraine has agreed to set up a security guarantee agreement and that would allow up to eight other countries, including Turkey, the US, France, Canada and Poland, to be guarantor countries. What that means is that it's an aggressor, comes in and attacks you crime. They have three days to find a diplomatic solution. If no diplomatic solution can be reached, those guarantor countries need to Stepien militarily and support you Cry, you're trying, said it's willing to take that move and also assume and mutual status that may end. It will not be joining NATO and it cannot have foreign military bases on its territory. He's quite the concessions from new crime. But we have also had the Russian side saying Villa brie, de escalate attacks on yev and in the neighbouring. So this is setting up the stage now for the foreign minister We were going to be coming together very short latest Russia East agreement and then we hear that is going to be taken to the leaders of both countries very soon have for interrupting. But is there any possibility of police to face meeting between the Russian and Ukrainian president, something Zelinski has been asking for for some time now? It does seem like that. It does seem that that could be where we get once the foreign ministers agree on the wording. All this deescalation agreement once they've agreed Chua the actual formulation of what it will say they're going to take it to their leaders. If they approve, we do expect to see the latest of Russia and you prime sitting down in the same room together, discussing this agreement. The foreign minister of Turkey says that could happen soon, right? Melinda, just to get back to what you were talking about, the security guarantees which Ukraine would possibly seek if it does involve if it does mean the involvement of countries like Poland or other countries, some within NATO. Wouldn't that be really problematic for Russia to accept? It is definitely going to be an issue with a lot of dry areas that really needs to be thrashed out. It sounds good in theory, but exactly the wording of how this is going to actually be constructed is going to be the devil in the details. Apparently, the Ukrainian delegation says it's going to take two weeks now to put together what it would like to see its best case scenario and begin negotiations with the guarantor countries. It's up to all of them to agree on what it will look like, and then that's going to be put to the foreign ministers to discuss, certainly by no means a done deal man. If he is definitely a step closer than anything we've seen from previous negotiations, these guarantor countries going to be too. We know at this state up to 80 guarantor countries. The countries that have been nine at this stage are Chuckie, France, the United States, Canada and Poland's potentially Israel as well. But that's not to say that both countries have already officially agreed to sign on. That is, just who the Ukrainian side has flagged would potentially be involved. All right, at what about the next time lines you mentioned? A meeting of foreign ministers after this round of talks is is sorted out pub and and signed. Possibly. When is that going to happen? Which I don't know when the foreign ministers are going to meet the Turkish foreign minister, Metro Chapelle show. Lee said he expects it happen soon. But what soon mains is anyone's guess, especially as you have this conflict. Continuing to ride they wanted to send a rather than later I should mention, is to be a with soon not 100% sure that the second day, who for seed Now that we've had this announcement after day one. Alright, Well, Melinda, thank you so much for joining us. The sharing those details. It is a very important day, 30 for or days into this conflict and the first real signs of peace. Let's just hope that leaders from both sides who walk the talk and the leadership of both sides actually agrees with his thank you very much, once again for being with a Santa, we will take a very quick break. At this point. We back with lot smoke or write a major breakthrough in peace talks between Russia and Ukraine currently taking place in Istanbul, in Turkey. And we heard many more details about that and possible negotiations that could now continue for the next fortnight or so. Of course, Vishnu, it's going to be very important to see what happens on the ground in Ukraine while those negotiations are being hammered out. In fact, I got a buyer. Beaches go back to that. Maps of the reckon explain to our viewers what exactly we are looking at. So this is It's a map of Ukraine showing a couple of areas which have assumed a great deal of significance in the last 24 to 48 hours or so. This is Kiev. What the Russians are now saying is that they are not going to go to deescalate tensions over here. And Kate, there's been a great deal of fighting over here, the capital of the Ukraine, it it's been surrounded in the north, but it's not been surrounded in the south and areas to the west and to the east are contested areas. In other words, the Ukrainians are fighting over here and er pin has actually been liberated, which is huge, absolutely, in terms of relative capabilities of the Ukrainian forces the size of the Ukrainian forces and compare it with the Russians. The fact that the these areas are contested er pin has been liberated is absolutely huge in the context of this war. These forces in all of these areas in white white areas where the Russians have actually come in the ST says that on the basis of what the Russian statements have been, they would start redeploying a lot of these forces to this area over here, to this area over here, which is that Donbass region. And I just needed a map out to show what the Donbass region is because what Russia is trying to do after declaring the independence off the Donbass region is to push this area this entire area westwards. And this is where the Ukrainians are fighting along of front. So the bulk of Ukraine's forces are actually deployed in a front in this entire area trying to prevent Russian forces from moving in this direction. The senses that if Russia decides to move away from case because it's untenable for them at this juncture, for various reasons that we can discuss, they would try to come over here and encircled in circle all the Ukrainian forces who may be fighting over here. So the Ukrainians would be facing Russians from here, and they could potentially be facing Russians from here as well, if that redeployment takes place. So that would be catastrophic, potentially for Ukrainian forces. But that's not happened so far. The good news is that Kiev and the city of Chennai here and will bring up a map pointer on that in just a little while. Those areas the Russian say they are going to actually deescalate now. It is very important to assert at this stage that while the military campaign has been going disastrously for the Russians, the Russians continue to have overwhelming firepower in this area across the country. The Russians have not deployed the heavy bomber fleets in any substantive manner. They have not brought in very substantial, did not brought in very substantial replacements or additions to their force, and they have not really bulked up their forces nor have they destroyed Ukrainian cities with the exception of Mario Paul in the south over here, which is seen actually a a lot of the fighting. But the Ukrainians continue to fight over here, relatively speaking, and I repeat, relatively speaking in Kiev, the centre of cave is still by large intact. Lots of these areas have seen a lot of damage, but they have not been 100% obliterated, which is something which would have actually taken place had the Russians stepped up their offensives offensive and and, by and large, the number of civilian casualties which we are actually seeing. And even though the numbers are large, several 1000 it could have been much, much larger. Therefore, in a situation like this, it's important to once again reiterate that Russia has still not deployed a lot more of what they have. And that is possibly because they realise that if they were to do that, if they were to destroy Ukraine cities, they would that need to hold those cities. And for that there are calculations which have been done. The Russians would need upwards of five lakh personnel, whether it's the army, police, soldiers, whoever it is to hold the key Ukrainian cities. Given the fact that this is already in one cents turned into a gorilla battle inside some of the Ukrainian cities, it would possibly be very difficult for the Russians going forward to actually hold these areas. So if there is a calculation which has taken place, it is this that the agenda number one of the Russians, which was to ensure that this area, the Donbass region, is actually strengthened and moves further in this direction that is where they will prioritise their forces. It was getting unrealistic for them to try and get hold of cave itself without destroying it. What is that achieve? How they do they have the funds to rebuild Kiev or for that matter, any of the other areas. The answer is no. At this juncture, so reinforced their positions over here Donetsk Lugansk, which are located over here this entire area called the Donbass region. The entire area over here called the Donbass region and and see where they're actually go. So that's up a broad understanding and you know, these are basic maps. Will try and work of these maps bring our viewers more details but for the moment, it's back to the show very quickly before I let you go on this larger point of the peace negotiations now Kiev Ukraine says it wants legally binding security guarantees that will offer Ukraine protection now from a group of allies in the case of any future attack. How is this going to play out deeply problematic and kita? It's going to be very difficult for Russia too, except that because as our colleague in Turkey was actually mentioning a few days back, the countries whose names have actually been proposed include Poland, which is a part of NATO, include a France which is a part which army it. It has an independent policy, but it is. It's essentially linked to to NATO as well, and several United States of America, the heart of NATO itself. Russia would never accept that, so I don't think that that is the policy is going to work. Would they be other countries who would come to the defence of the Ukraine of there? Is any future Russian invasion hypothetical? Who were those countries? Be 11 doesn't know at this stage include Israel. Once again you know what is the likelihood of Israel becoming a security guarantor for well, Israel is played a keeper. Naftali Bennett, the prime minister of Israel, has been one of the international leaders, along with with Erdogan, of Turkey and Macron of France in reaching out of Vladimir Putin, not once, but over and over and over again, saying that. Look, let's deescalate, Let's bring down tensions. Let's work towards an actual solution. So will be actually see Israeli forces or it's only it's all in the realm of of something hypothetical. And I would I would I would say that at this stage, perhaps Vladimir Putin may not be willing to accept very much of any of some of the suggestions with that statement. All that we should really focus on now an kita is the statement. Why? Because it comes from Russia, it comes from an authority saying they are going to de escalate into cities, one of them the most important city of them all, in a sense, Kiev, the capital of the Ukraine. Let's go to to to to to this map once again because updated the map, let's first bring you some of the key areas in the Ukraine and then we'll talk about all of these areas. That's the capital Kiev. You can see Odessa, the key port. The Russians have been trying to attack Odessa. No rail progress over there. Mario Poll this the Storey of Mario poll. Absolutely remarkable. It is a city under siege because, remember, this is an area the cry be a which was which was taken over by the Russians in 2014. And so the Russians are very heavily built up over here Militarily. They have been fighting over here against the city Ukrainian city of Mariupol, which is also see that seats taking place from the north with the Ukrainians continue to fight in Mario poll. But of all the cities which have seen damage in this ward in the Ukraine, I would suggest that it's Mario Pool which has been worst hit, or Desa is where, and it's the biggest sport in Russia and I beg your pardon in Ukraine. It's where the Russian forces are now trying to get to. But again we haven't seen that level of of damage which has taken place. The Ukrainian defences of Odessa have been fairly strong and on route to a Desa. There is the battle of Carson which is taking place, another important a city again under siege. But again over here. Despite the fact that there were reports that the Ukrainians were that the Russians at moralistic in over cock Carson, it is now considered disputed. In other words, there is a strong counter attack. Taking place is far as the Ukrainians are concerned. And again, just look at the white areas. These are Russian influence areas and there is a fight which is happening in the middle again. The siege of these cities hasn't worked out quite in the way that the Russians have would have wanted another key area, Sumi To the north. This is an area which is seen extensive Russian bombing and, of course, K f. So let's talk about Kiev for a moment. Let's focus over here the lines that you see over here, these lines are are areas which are contested areas. In other words, despite there being Russian military forces over here, we are actually seeing the Ukrainians push into the into a lot of these areas at two key west of Kiev as well. Again, these lines indicate areas where there has been a counterattack. The goal of the Russians has been true strategically in Circle Kiev completely right. They have not been able to do that. They have not been able to have bring in soldiers forces to the south of Kiev. And the fighting of the end to the east of Caves, as I have been reporting as we've been seeing over here, remains intense. So that's that's where the Russians have actually been stuck. Sana. Let's move to the next page and this is the Donbass region that we been talking about. Let's zoom in over here. This is so very important now because Don dies is absolutely critical. Donbass have absolutely critical to to wear. This entire bear battle is actually going. The war is actually going. Remember. This is an area we and their two cities over here, Donetsk and Lugansk. Russia has always said that these are separate from Ukraine. That's been the heart of the fight between the Ukraine and Russia since 2014. In the last couple of weeks, Russia Putin has gone to the extent of saying that this entire area is now independent, are on the basis of their own will accept et cetera. These are Russian speaking areas, and therefore there is an affinity to Russia that needs to be said. But there is what is effectively a line of actual controller, I mean to to use the words of use over here. Over here in this entire area, the Ukrainians hold one part of the line. The Russians hold the other part of the line. Russia trying to move in this direction to consolidate their hold, perhaps push it more in this particular area. The Russians may want to do that because they are stretched. They are stretched in Kiev militarily. They are stretched in the Sumi area south of Sumi as well. The fighting continues in Mario poll. No progress is far as Odessa to the south is actually concerned. So what do the Russian forces at this juncture want to do? They want to go back to their core area and their core concern, which is the Donbass region over here. Remember, this is the area that Vladimir Putin had initially said was what Russia really wanted to focus on. That rhetoric has in fact, come back in the last couple of weeks. One final point a last one weaker. So when they're saying that, look, Donbass is where we need to focus one final point trustee, Annette's Care Song three areas which have seen extensive fighting in the last 24 to 48 years, if in, has been liberated, it's been liberated from the Russians that is absolutely critical, without help in the census, that Kiev is much more secure right now south of Sumi Trust Janette is an area is it's a city. It's a town city which has now been liberated as well. So the Ukrainians really taking the fight, and perhaps the Russians reorganising their forces to move elsewhere to this area. As as as I have been describing, Let's move to the next. A couple of important points now, part of the Ukrainian defence off their own country, and the fact and this is this is important that this entire area is disputed airspace. In other words, the Russian air force doesn't control the skies over the Ukraine, not even 30 For a days after the war began. The fact that the Russians have been unable to do that. The fact that the Ukrainians actually have an air force, which is flying. They certainly got surface to air. Missile units over here is partly because the Ukrainians have been given world class weapon systems. Where you go to see now is the Star Streak surface to air missile system. It's the fastest missile of its class in the world. It can be fired from the shoulder of soldiers. As you can see, it flies at a speed of upwards of mark three or three times the speed of sound. It can be mounted on vehicles as well. This is slow motion, and you know what's interesting. As you can see, it's got projected. Has got three projectiles on head of the missile itself. These are made of tungsten and this missile. Actually, these project has come off the body of the missile as it is actually used to to blow up a particular helicopter ordered aircraft. It's free. In other words, countermeasure systems used by helicopters or used by aircraft are relatively less effective, if at all effective against this particular weapon system. The Ukrainians adjustment trained to use this and it's already been deployed in the fight. And thanks a macho for that very comprehensive round up. We will take a very quick break. All the other news of the day when we return in just
