hello and welcome to no spin. I'm Navy Raj Don. It is now a toxic political blame game over the toxic air we are breathing. Deli is currently the second most polluted city all over the world and as air pollution in the national capital rises. The Aam Aadmi Party today blamed the BJP and the Centre for Rising Farm Fires from Punjab, saying that farmers are not being adequately compensated for stubble burning farm fires. To be fair or not, the main reason for air pollute in the capital and surrounding cities. It's mostly because of pollution from vehicles and from industries, but nevertheless it is a significant contributor to the problems. According to data from the Indian Agricultural Research Institute, from the middle of September to the end of October, farm fires have increased by 21% compared to the same period last year, while Punjab stubble burning has increased farm fires in Haryana and have actually gone down during the same period. But today, Delhi's environment minister asked citizens to get into the act, including carpooling, working from home, are reporting on any construction activities day may see and so on. The question, though, is what is the responsibility of the government is criminal negligence slowly killing all of us. We're joining us first on the programme tonight We have her Mrs Preet Walia. Her son Arman is 13 years old and suffers from asthma because of air pollution. Environmentalist limb Linda USIA is also with us our Gupta, senior leader of the BJP also joining us Mrs. Walia want to ask you first of what is the kind of impact this air is having on your son on Arman media? We are actually so want to tell you that um I audible Yes, we can hear you, man. Go ahead. You know, my son is suffering a lot because of this, because every time in season changes he has a systematic attacks. He has to go on a belies ear's and at times we have to admit him to hospital also. So actually this be arising. Pollution is a nightmare for us. It scares us that you know it will be very, very difficult for him to do his regular activities And normal life becomes not difficult for him. And you know the fact that schools are still open even though pollution levels are so high as a parent, What would you like to see the government do? Do you want to see schools shut down, not charge them? But they can go on line because going out is actually hazardous for the migrants. And it's not for only Arman, who is Asta Matic. It's for every kid going to school because kids that they're more prone to infections Aaron factions and they it's difficult for them to do daily activities. Arman I see the mic is with us. Well, can you describe to us what? What you feel, you know, when the air becomes so polluted, how how do you manage? It's difficult to breathe and it's very hard, and I suffered a lot. I have difficulty in my daily activities like I do jogging, and that's not possible for me when I get asked. Thematic Attaf And it's really hard to live in the hospital when you, when you are such a condition without your family's really hard to live in the hospital. So I think the school should go online and unlike your mother, said, you've actually had to go to the hospital ready, often because you are having such difficulty breathing Yes, she's right. I had to go to the hospital a few weeks back on leakers of this pollution, and it was really hard. Er, I had to go to the I See you as well, so it's really hard. I'm really sorry to hear that, Arman and and unfortunately, there are many others like you of your age, even younger Children who are suffering in the same way we have, Dr Ashok said the head of cardiology at the forties group of hospitals as well. The chairman of the Forties Escorts Heart Institute, Dr Ashok said, We just heard about 13 year old Arman here and the kind of difficulties he is facing with just being able to breathe, even finding himself in the ice you a few weeks ago. Are you seeing more cases of people, especially young people, kids, others who are coming to you with health problems today? Absolutely. I think that's too important to understand that there's always an increase in heart disease in lung disorders in asthma, bronchitis, even pre existing patients with heart disease and dig up in heart failure. In these times, branches surprised and Mbia's and a really feel bad for such young Children who got to suffer their lives in this gas chambers. Because if I was to tell you that we discussed this on and off for years, sitting there every every time after in the winters. Yet the pollution is actually a continuous process that's affecting our lives is just worst inventors. But it's their throat. If I was to tell you the the repercussions which this young man and many others have, you'd be surprised that actually it is worse than smoking. We a shortening our lives greater than smoking greater than alcohol. And for every 10 my crone of ppm 2.5, which rises. And by the way, the safe limit is 12 and be living at 30 times that safe W p p m level. We increase a risk of heart attack by 2.5% for every 10 increased, and we're talking about 30 times increase. We talking about the fact that heart failures increased lung problems, increased lung cancers increase soon away these PM 2.5 and the nitrous oxide carbon monoxide, sulphur dioxide, you've heard of these gas? Is there supposed to be used in gas chambers? That's the one wishes. Doctor State. Are you saying that a people also getting heart attacks today? Are you linking it directly to air pollution? Oh, you has hit the nail on the head. Over the last 15 years, we have seen a rise in heart attacks as you well recognised. The fact we have said it's increased by 300% in just a part of that. And it's been clearly demonstrated that pollution in PM 2.5 causes thrombosis, causes heart attacks, causes inflammation of the heart arteries. And I am very convinced and super many of the cardiac experts that what we see of rice and young people is in part due to the pollution of his suffering. Day in TR is the youngsters were out there in the open. You're actually driving those motorcycles to work. Who is using the public transport who are actually trying to make a life and a live in. And it's sad to see that we're going to be destroying their lives and rather than actually making their life. So yes, I think somebody's got to wake up. It's our responsibility sent national agenda. You know what you said about a work actually a war on us day after the after tea. And absolutely, And what you said rightly is that this is something that actually is is a problem that deli in particular North India, faces throughout the year just to give people some perspective. If you look at official data, there is zero the air quality index and do know that deli, for example, has had a good air quality index. Only thing once in 2019 and three days in 2020 it's it's It's some absurd number like that literally only a few days in a year where we are actually breathing clean air. As per the air quality indices vim Lendu Gia is an environmentalist who is joining us today. Women do Gia. Today we heard the Aam Aadmi party. We heard the deli Environment Minister putting out an appeal to citizens by you Do carpooling work from home centres, photographs if you see some construction taking place I saw very angry tweet from you after that saying that it said If everything citizens have to do then why have we elected you clearly? You've thrown up your hands Absolute media You know how tired frustrated and angry you are, I am for sure very, very, very, very angry because you're after your un I and many other journalists and many other doctors and many other environmentalists have been saying the same thing. Same fact that yes, it is a big problem is bigger than Corbett. It kills a million and a half people each year. And despite that, we don't we see any action from anybody be central government or respective state governments. Such a killing of a press conference that we had from the deli environment minister today to say citizens, do this, do that and the other and glad that we have a We have up spokesperson here today. Reality is that you're after Europe cannot be living in denial. Our governments can live in denial. Can't live in Pickering Act is that I was actually listening to some other doctors from Maidan time from other places. Every normal person, every second household actually has some sort of the challenge of the other. So the idea here is that we have an emergency like this when people are falling ill. When you know the numbers that that's in front of a few, imagine By the way, I am sure. Ah, maybe parties in a talk sports double and the challenge and the central government realities? No. Yet this year this month itself, stubble burning will stop and still Delhi's air quality index is going to be 405 100 that will remain till January. And therefore stubble burning is not the main Congo's of air pollution that we actually have in Delhi. You know, of course, it's an episodic source of pollution that it is only one exactly. And therefore we're discussing 18% of pollution today, which was perhaps 12% in 1% in 0%. After we never discussed our political representative on this panel, boards of them from BJP and Ahm Aadmi party will not discuss what they have actually done for the 80% pollution that lies which them which them the public transport that we're talking about is completely missing. We all know transport is 50%. And what is the environment Mr telling us for well, drive less work from home? Do this Rudy other All likely ask Karina Gupta from the Aam Aadmi party about that arena. Gupta, the point is a nah last you would gremlin do jazz asking What are not even going to ask you? What stubble fires? I'll come to that later. But what about you know, the issue of public transport Are scaling that up, having a clean public transport and and, you know, dealing with those main sources of pollution like industry and like our vehicles. So the first of all, as you know, very well pollution is not a deli problem. It's a North India programmes right now. If you look at all the North Indian cities, whether it's Farid Abad, Gurgaon, Noida, Boland share Murad Abad whole of North India alcohol in yoga, yoga analytic play is going to be the severe of very poor air quality. So as much as un, I would like to create a wall around Delhi. Unfortunately, that is not. What is possible is that all the states, all the North Indian states, need to come together. And this is what we had written to the to the Honourable Union Environment Minister in July itself that be know that the pollution season is coming. We know winter is coming and the whole of north India is Colby shrouded in smoke pleaded. Can you call a meeting of all the environment ministers of North Indian state up Haryana, if I may interrupt very briefly isn't the first mistake you're making in saying that this is the pollution season when data shows that actually deli is polluted all year with the exception of maybe three good air quality days. So why do you write to the environment Minister of India, You know, towards Diwali isn't or July. This is a You are long dealing with it on award for day that the government is the only government which was doing anything. Have you ever heard from government air quality? Do they even know what a polity is in group? So Delhi government is the only government which is taking steps. And that is the reason why you see that Delhi's had one of the females deals after Diwali in fire use. But having said that little consolation because pm 2.5 levels were still hundreds of times higher really should have been which ranged the the grieving A little less poison. But we were breathing poison. Are we supposed to be happy about that? So what, you expect deli government too early The the the elected government of Delhi on two women do job un's to commune. And then I'll come to Mr Gotta Let a citizen and environmentalists I have has a point. He wants to ask a i with But let him ask is question Go ahead, Will. He is asking you a question and you can please respond after that Yes, the the fact Do you know that Delhi's air quality is bad and poor throughout the year and it becomes really, really bad in these extreme situations Venue states, the North India problem Do you know that in Delhi is in North India? Third point is, do you know that there's a deficit of transport public transport in Delhi? Do you know Are you aware as an environmental consultant or whatever that you are with the Delhi government? Do you know that there is a deficit of almost 200 for road cleaners Industrious that you have. Do you know that you made one smoke tower which is anyway cleans 50 metres of air only, and that we don't even know which also doesn't even function for 24 hours? So what? We re not today at least one thing. Please understand. Watch and heared The medical experts don't do politics. Your people are dying and therefore accept do whatever that is in your command. And then indeed indeed be to blame. Central government indeed. So I have heard all of the points, Nadine. And there is a very important saying that you all must recognise that only 31% of Delhi's pollution originates in Delhi. This is not mine. Study. This is a study by centre for Science and Environment, which is an independent Think Stan a very well respected Anju. So that is the first point that only 31% of Delhi's pollution originates from inside deli. 69 percent comes from NCR. So unless NCR decides to hope together, unless the central government decides to bring LCR together, there is very literal at the Delhi government can do that 0.1 point number to Delhi is the only state which has invested very heavily in public house. For we have 7000 buses, there are more orders for more buses to come. It we are providing incentives for electric vehicles and we are investing very, very heavily in increasing the Delhi's being cover victories Delhi's dream cover from 20% to 23%. Delhi's only city in the whole whole of India. Such high, clean power. But the point is that the Bharatiya Janata Party does not believe in solution in salt in the air pollution prices. While transfers were banged in Delhi Event Townsend said No, you must all born tackles right now construction is banned in Delhi. What? Barty defied all final construction. It continues to build its own party office. We wanted to run another champagne or like it, get definite, have just very intimately. We have point Ali, and give me two minutes. I have Mr Dhaliwal with us. His Punjab's agricultural minister. Mr. Dolly one. Can you hear me alone? Mr Dhaliwal, Can you hear me? Dari Watch Hee Hee. But I a key aam Aadmi party Knock a hockey job. Um Punjab Key Sarkar Benign hum fires Cool. A key stubble burning. Kulik A homicide case. Our deal Coring. A farmer's co compensate carrying Hammond coup machines living and you do pollution Found fire. Skipper Decima Com Hodja Moderates Unni Hora Abby Subsidy Yadav Farm fires Jitney Warren who? Punjab say he hora two Kia Yes a here K R Collie Baba Paco blamed carriages. Kelly Collie Centre Could blame carrying a cap. Punjab Sarkar Cars McCoy Responsibility name The government is report Computer struck Our Mandy so garni seems of a C 70 men Paula Can Kyoko Ankara A pre to Mary Hammond Bar protectively karaki of Diogo Savvy Co Some amazing KJ Planica Few Johar Southall Matti is cool Central onerous is Malia Ham in a policy of someday central government away Panja Mayday! Has Sal Rahmati of Hamas Yoko to home Military escort Pickering, you know, and a key Also very well but good. J Canada Op in jab coup Plymouth Udo Quantity in action A damn! A cast of the living quality index dirt 6 49 A monument is throwing Tear kept ailment is so near a Assad a blame centre coup Jarrahi Sarkar Apne Punjab May Benigni happen Icka Hot Archy up Scoop tackle Karpa in Gaelic in Abbey subsides Yadav stubble burning to Punjab Sayuri, Anadolu Algae Badra Time What? The TV said the Yarkon inquiry. You have social, so why don't we want a quirky world double for the want to Corky 1 12 with from Punjab much higher today Then they were exactly a year to go at this time. And the op can't say at that time He used to blame the Punjab government. You keep Punjab key Sarkar Kucinich Aria Centre v. Kucinich R e upto Sakharov Key and a Punjab. Having said that, Gupta is here from the BJP Gupta JIA PBA send a question of air pollution. Where are dying, Gupta? Gee, why can't the centre called a meeting of all stakeholders? All states have experts come on board and find a solution to this case. If a blame game Teldta Rageh blame game Keep Pattni heavy need DJ Happy Obata Subsidy palace risk a mul Karan Jack Abby A bad Cassese parlayed even see 50% Giada Pollution daily made because of the majority because of industries vehicles Muharrem percentage 49% Because of its not Please don't give incorrect data. This is the central government's affidavit to the Supreme Court in 2021 where the central government has said that agricultural burning is only 4% is from Palu from causes pollution industries 30% and transport 28%. I'm sorry. I'll have to correct you on that transport is 28% Aam Aadmi Party is of our CIA Our road a lot of traffic lights a are have made a save a Yaqui Bajaj Oppa Sarkar May has centre May or op eight meeting Mabel Car Environment Minister Nebula Septic Meeting Punjab Haryana Dilly up Sub statescase a caravan Al your Chiaki happen Agar Afghan If you're a facade of net purchase Mint mint Go Paisa Fuchsia Bio The compression Joe pays up. Select May bus, bus it Public transport. You need a rag? Our public transport car is an email. A god is the other pollution Come up on our man Jesse Bochy, Jupiter, Pakistan Or be up Kumar 50% population to suffer Korea because of a scheme. Lanky Joe problem. Who is the Baku Giada Battery include Elkana Except in your risky Bazin s. Ahmadinejad. Yeah, Got a Hey Yes. Um, milk and honey wants to respond to that. Yes. So needy. The point that you are making about travel warning. There are two ways to look at stubble bowling. If you look at the area which is being burned right now, the area the area has actually gone down in 2021 for like had hectares and 95 hectares. So here's the number if you're counting the number of fires, which is a long way to look at data to see what percentage of of basmati rice which is under cultivation, What what is the hectare that is being born? So that born down. So the point very heavily in working with the farmers, Maybe. But there was a very simple solutions at the farmers of Punjab gave, they said. We are not interested in subsidised farm machines. Interested incentives you give us insights is that is the proposal being sent to the central government? We said Delhi will pitch in. You give us can ask both of you what the rest of us do while all of you all fight with each other. What do we do because we're dying seriously? We have a 13 year old boy on this programme who's having an icy just a few weeks ago just telling you the facts. Something is the responsibility of the state government something responsibility of the A. Please, please help us media have a solution involved with what? Let me know when I can speak. See if we look, if we want to lodge a have a quickly what do you What do you want to suggest? So the solution is that the centre of the the China was it gave targets in each of his citizen states. The city is at main Target met very specific measurable time. All you bring your p m 10 pm, 2.5 most down For certain degree, you get additional consular self government and each one of those cities and those regional governments follow those. And that is what we need in India unless the central government decides that they want to fight this issue of pollute. Sorry, we have been lentils are rightly said that is a certain responsibility that state governments are. The Delhi government has at least fulfilled those promises and night. But it's an issue will keep revisiting, unfortunately, particularly over the course of the next few months. Thanks for joining us tonight.
