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FLASH
Location: INDIA
NEWS
None has ever heard of "LOVE POLITICS"!!!
INDIANS are well trained to absorb all shocks!!!
By nature INDIA is averse for changes basically!!!
The whole INDIAN history is an open book to prove about importance of INDIA!!!
For Pranab knows well about falls much better!!!
Specially in the Indian context!!!
It would be possible only when both the paries agree for it!!!
By the time they realise,it would be too late!!!
For options or auctions!!!
If they do,it is more by chance!!!
Unfortunately there a lot of buyers for it in the market and cherish it as a delicious fast food!!!
The subsequent events proved it!!!
Let us all wish it would be followed up to its logical conclusion!!!
Most of our jokers do not know how to use it even,in their lives so far.This is for real.
If ever it happens it would be a miracle!!!
Even the players themselves do not know who is in and who is out!!!
One is entitled to hold the opinions!!!
If at all,its inhibhitions and lack of will alone might be holding it back!!!
Any discussions in this regard are superfluous now!!!
Both the state and central governments should act fast,before this venom spreads!!!
People have never seen such a HATE statement,ever coming from a responsible minister so far!!!
People would like to see what course of action follows under the laws of the land,aganist this responsible minister!!!
Of course,it may be an exclusively reserved and confined activity to politicians and the media alone!!!
Politicians have their own paradises to live in,which is their birth right!!!
This is the greatest joke played on the people!!!
SPECIALLY WHEN BJP KEPT ITS CONTENTIOUS ISSUES ON THE BACK BURNER,in the "national interests,political and economic stability",by keeping the oppurtunists at bay!!!
One plus one would be a purposeful and constructive coailition,than 1+ 25+ etc!!!
National interests demand it and people expect better wisdom to dawn on its leaders!!!
These are some typical captions of the most enlightened Media channels,in their non-stop run of news!!!
The people and world at large are wondering whether INDIA is a state of "Democracy,Monarchy or Anarchy".People expect MEDIA not to go over board while reporting facts or is it too much to expect???
People may see a colourful photo print at page 14 0f "THE HINDU" dated 4th April under the caption "CONGRESS SENA" with colourful custumes and heavy make up of the "Mythological characters "of SITA,HANUMAN & OTHERS" WITH A MAN HOLDING A PLAYCARD WITH THE PHOTO OF SRI YSR THE CM, prominently during the campaign in TIRUPATI,the temple town!!!
Great indeed!!!
We have different front in:-
1)KERALA,
2)KARNATAKA,
3)TAMILNADU,
4)ANDHRA PRADESH,
5)ORISSA,
6)MAHARASHTRA,
7)GUJARAT,
8)RAJASTAN,
9)MADHYAPRADESH
10)WEST BENGAL
11)SEVEN SISTER STATES
TO
17)
18)UTTARAKHAND.
19)UTTAR PRADESH,
20)JARKHAND.
21)CHATTISGARH.
22)BIHAR
23)PUNJAB
24)HARYANA
25)HIMACHALPRADESH
26)JAMMU & KASHMIR.
27)SIKKIM,NOT TO SPEAK OF UNION TERRITORIES
28)GOA.
29)DELHI.
We do not see a common "third front"away from CONGRESS & BJP, with all sundry ASSORTED parties trying to have a sort of loose "oppurtunistic",
which they are calling as prepoll "seat adjustments" to keep both congress and BJP at bay.
In this process,contrary to what has been stated to fool the public,some of the parties are still happen to be the part of "UPA OR NDA"led by Congress and BJP!!!
What shall we call this tamasha MR.Nariman? Shall we say it is an "ABSURD THEATRICAL" PLAY BEING ENACTED to entertain or fool thepublic friend???
INDIA HAS BEEN CONSISTENT WITH ITS STAND FROM THE BEGINING!!!
Both for the world and INDIA!!!
MR.Narimans,frustations at times are pointers for a new order in the offing shortly too!!!
How can people be asked to offer views on a non-existant form,which is both invisible and purely hypothetical.Of course one has the liberty to chase illusions or mirages!!!
People did see that there is no single party which was not split.It all starts with personal hatred and ends up with a group hatred.They always practice the divide and rule policy!!!
This goes only to prove either there is a flaw with all our systems or our investigative agencies are ill equipped to deal with the cases
with age old attitudes and approches,not to speak of their basic knowlege!!!
It is high time to overhaul them and revamp them!!!
MR.KRISHU,People atleast are now quite familiar with the fact,that all constitutional institutions,follow the pattern of ebbs and tides!!!
The former is a statement and the later is a process!!!
Knowing fully well of the consequences.It is just like planting a thorny tree and expect that it would yield MANGO fruits!!!
Highly doubtful,unless we make a new constitution!!!
This may satisfy the egos,prides and prejudices of all,atleast for some time to come.This may quicken the process of uniform development both in respective constituencies and country as well!!!
This is bound to make our country a super power by 2020 as envisioned!!!
PREFIXES AND SUFFIXES given are only one''s own attributes based on one''s perceptions which are bound to vary in practice.There are no hard and fast rules in politics!!!
Any way the matters are going to be resolved finally and hence no room for anxieties!!!
What is use of lamenting now about "vote bank politics" having nourished them by all, over the decades!!!
"JAIHIND"
It has "several facets" and surfaces depending on
circumstantial situations,in which one finds oneself!!!
At best propagation could just be an attempt or a small aid or means to impress,and in reality people would rarely change from their views!!!
The politics amply proves this point!!!
Their only like mindedness is "POWER" at any cost and nothing else is common.Even then till date it could not materialise for they are banking on all others from A-Z,excluding Congress and BJP,more so BJP even after the polls.
Even CPI-M GS is on record stating that they do not rule out a post poll tie up with congress,as though they alone are the deciders.Does this mean all others would fall in line with their line of thinking after polls???
It might be another fantacy of theirs!!!
Undoubtedly of course.But she forgot to tell all works are of GOD''S alone,religiously/spiritually speaking!!!
People are seeing it through for they have to judge finally!!!
MR.KRISHU,may I add one more line to it."Even if such a food is available it is quite unrelishable"!!!
MR.rebel,the worst part of this drama is the role being played by the CPI-M & CPI,in propping us such a front.Communists and fascists coming together is quite unthinkable.Is it not friend???
After all her bail petition has been rejected and still she stands only as an "accused,but not a convict".
It might take a few more years,before a final verdict emerges one way or the other.This will not have any special bearing on the general elections!!!
MR.Nariman,if that be so,what is there for any one to grumble including the media.DONN''T you think that it is hypocricy at its worst friend???
MR.Nariman,do you mean to say they have a right to abuse it,not knowing either the content or context in which it was said???
MR.KRISHU,I understand it and fully appreciate your inner vision.I really congratulate your spirit friend!!!
MR.Nariman,the word of advice given to her cousin Varun, to read GITA "properly" used by Priyanka is more significant and relevant now.It does not go with convieniences to suit politics.What is the use of trying to defend the indefensible friend???
MR.Nariman,your post is self contradictory.The point is,as of now whether the EC has powers or not under the existing laws to apply.It is not a question of flexibility or not friend,which may or may not vary with times!!!
MR.KRISHU,may be you have a valid point there.But unfortunately it turned out to be a case of a schizophrenic,that needs appearantly prompt and proper treatment.It is really pitiable
friend!!!
MR.Nariman,It is Priyanka who took Varun''s speech very seriously,besides media and indulged in family rivalary,forgetting the fact that he too hails from same NEHRU FAMILY!!!
No sane person would take an ignorant one seriously, except the sychophants ofcourse friend.I just pointed at her pretences and false airs!!!
MR.bnashok,India is too vast a country,the largest democracy in the world with huge population only next to CHINA,and has a highly pluralistic society.
Yet if we have to search for a GOOD LEADER,either there is something wrong with the people or their systems!!!
Let this problem be analysed first with clarity and a solution would emerge next!!!
MR.Nariman,is it because we are all living in an "unbridled democracy"???
MR.babubhadra,all your good suggestions may materialise only when the "NAV GRAHAS" of our solar family appear in a straight line at the same time and stay put like that atleast for a period of five years!!!
MR.Nariman,without enhancing the comforts,the tall talk of providing welfare to "AAM AADMI" would become irrelevant and farcical too!!!
Except the media and the LEFT who are not direct partners alone are speaking about it in their dreams.What it is supposed to be only GOD knows!!!
MR.Nariman,Our views on this aspect remained the same since long.BTW!!!
Friend there were times when a single vote mattered to tilt the balances.It could be even a speaker''s vote too!!!
Now both can go to their deep slumber sleep happily!!!
If it does not,people can aclaim one to be a great leader.Unfortunately we have none at present which is a tragedy!!!
If not why not???
MR.minigaba,we do have all the laws to punish each and every criminal.But we lack the will to enforce them sicerely!!!
MR.hspuni,God saves those when they save others!!!
Who said it is, in the first place???
She continued further by saying "A PERSON WHO IS TRUTHFUL AND GOOD IS "RELIGIOUS"whether he is a Hindu,Muslim,Christian or Buddhist",not knowing that these are different aspects,which surely are not acceptable to SECULARISTS absolutely and totally!!!
SECULARISTS may do well to educate and advise her properly to remove any or all confusions from her mind!!!
All know that "time" is infinite and yet to be defined precisely!!!
MR.Nariman,all people in politics live in open palaces/spaces, which does not have any doors or windows.This facilitates them to touch upon the various emotions of people at will!!!
MR.Nariman,how are we sure that JD(U) would remain as a permanent ally of BJP???
PEOPLE HAVE SEEN WHAT POLITICS IS ALL ABOUT.
They fully know now, that it is a gold or dimond mine and hence the mad rush to join the politics,even if it is going to cost them crores of rupees!!!
We can also float a "dynastic syndicate or corporate" if only we perfect the art of spinning money,leaving the values and principles behind.Shall we friend???
...PROPERLY!!!
It would be of immense help for congress to get an absolute majority in the ensuing elections,when people see the illumination!!!
MR.Lavarajkumar,worry not for VARUN said he would approch SC for justice.His defense lawyers can keep all their ammunition dry for use!!!
MR.arch_prsh,Media is always subjective but not objective,for it needs to run for ever!!!
MR.KRISHU,It seems some party has promissed RS.one lakh for each.But it is not clear whether it is now or in future!!!
MR.achanm,it should not make any difference with the jumping frogs,whether they are indigenous or imported!!!
MR.Nariman,does this mean all are poachers and oppurtunists without exception including PM & Shadow PMs???
MR.Nariman,it looks like these fronts go on multiplying in GP.At least can we say the ceiling could be 543,as of now friend???
MR.Nariman,your point is well taken.But you know pretty well,that any power only flows from the constitutional laws of the land and constitution is supreme and more so in a democracy.None can assume powers,not granted by the laws!!!
All of us also know that "MORAL CONDUCT" happens to be just an agreement of sorts,but not a mandatory law!!!
All said and done the ECs are merely the employees of the government as is known!!!
MR.KRISHU,Good quotes.But the point is,why she does not go about preaching "GITA" with all her scholrily knowledge on it, to all the ignorant people across the country,either by joining an appropriate organisation or floating one on her own,as a firm believer of "HINDUISM"!!!
Did she forget the fact convieniently, that "Hinduism is all about Pluralism"!!!
MR.Nariman,the advice from Priyanka was to read it properly.What it means,God alone knows friend!!!
The names may differ,roles may differ, intonations may differ and situations may differ,but unfortunately the content is costant.
This is a very pathetic pattern prevailing in the social fabric!!!
Could this be altered at the earliest???
Experience tells us to wait too long to see the climax!!!
The unfortunate lot who cann''t afford the luxury of ACs,COOLERS etc,should find atleast cool shades,to avoid strokes in the ensuing months ahead!!!
MR.JeejabhaiDeshmukh,right or wrong,we all are prisoners of our own thoughts which mostly are passing clouds and hence the vacillations and prevarications friend!!!
MR.rebel,as we know, Hinduism (whatever it is) always encouraged divergent school of thoughts to flourish side by side at all times and has no fixed cannon,unlike some others.This is its beauty friend!!!
We also know that one should not judge the distant past with the present standards,for no two situations could be exactly the same.BTW!!!
They kept all their options open including supporting congress or receiving support from congress,just to keep BJP away from the saddle.To achieve this end they are prepared to stoop to any level,not out of any love for any party!!!
This only shows their weakness,but not their strength!!!
MR.dheerajpinki,all governments have their own priorities,the foremost being the security concerns.Heavens would not have fallen,by rescheduling these matches to a later date to avoid the overlap with elections.Obviously there appears to be a communication gap resulting in confusion!!!
MR.RCHANDER,What is the difference between religion and spiritualism???When one speaks about secularisim it means the religion automatically exists by its side!!!
There seems to be a contradiction,when you say that "communists are going to have their days as socialism is their religion".!!!
For your information in INDIA none is scared of any thing,except one''s own shadow!!!
Keeping aside its prides and prejudices,it would be more prudent for BCCI to reschedule the IPL matches after May 2009 and hold them In our country.
If it fails and opts for holding them in other countries, the central GOVT is duty bound to crack the whip aganist BCCI and ensure the cancellation of these matches totally now or in future!!!
One should consider oneself as a blessed soul for there would be nothing to decide by such a PM!!!
Indeed a golden advice from one who read it upside down thoroughly,and understood the core and purport of it fully,as it appears!!!
Wish it should also be shared with the people of this country,for transforming them in the right direction!!!
MR.Nariman,following your own dictum quoted often,they may be better of the bad lot.Is it not!!!
Any way we all agree that we have stink alone alround IN POLITICS presently,irrespective of its causing factors.BTW!!!
MR.Arun,may be they are trying to understand what should not be first before realising the ultimate last,by following the deduction process principle of "NETI,NETI"!!!
MR.rebel,these samhitas are no longer familiar to most of the people.For a majority of the people in our country they are all greek and latin or for that matter their existance itself is a news to them.
Better we start thinkinng about,the havoc being ushered in now, by all sundry people in the name of politics first,than trying to live in the past friend!!!
...AUTHORITY IS LEGALLY TENABLE AND BINDING ON ALL???
People are curious to know what precisely law says on this.The learned friends from the legal fraternity or even otherwise may like to comment in this regard!!!
Unless this question is first answered and solutions found by the law makers,jurists and media,people continue to
live in darkness each with their own perceptions!!!
Any reactions on this aspect would only be redundant every time when an incident occurs,for people continue to remain where they are till then!!!
But people are sure that they would watch a grand circus hence forth to their merriment!!!
On the basis of religions,castes,subcastes, classes,genders and linguistic basis etc,in their coverages.This style of reporting cann''t be construed as "cohesive and objective",viewed specially in the context of bridging the already existing divisions in the society!!!
People expect the media to contribute in a positive manner to improve the standards to begin with!!!
It goes with the psyche of one be it an individual,a group,community,party,society or nation.It basically stems from non existance of "uniformity or equality" due to inherent expectations and failures if any.
None is void of this psyche.Laws may try to contain it,but cann''t supress it or eradicate it in totality.Politicians exploit this weakness unashamedly causing and perpetuating the divisions!!!
This is the reality,whether one likes it or dislikes it!!!
Both have a tendency to unite and divide the society depending on the circumstances and by turns!!!
Earlier the better for it to wake up and avoid vote bank politics and converge in a constructive manner for the good of people and nation!!!
People wonder why so much furore is kicked up on normal moral code violations!!!
-TO UNRAVEL THE TRUTH???
Friends are requested to enlighten all others, for this happens to be a point of academic interest!!!
All know a community comprises of people of all shades and people do have varying perceptions on any or all issues/matters.The welfare of the community known as INDIANS demands acceptance of this reality,to adopt themselves to achieve the basic trust and convergence despite differences, for they have to coexist with one another!!!
All know this cohesion is not made possible due to mainly,ignorance of the people,ego clahes and greed,which the rulers unashamedly exploit to their advantage,by perpetuating all types of possible divisions in the community,forgetting the fact that no community exists without being communal,in any part of the world.
This is the most unfortunate part of human travails,at all times!!!
There are too many power centers in PAK and people are at a loss to understand whose writ runs there!!!
It appears that PAK happens to be the most unstable neighbour of us,with all the attendent risks to the world order as such!!!
None who talk about it have neither principles nor a common ideology,not to speak of any agreed common minimum programme.At best it is an attempt of all frustated oppurtuists to formulate one in the air!!!
MR.KRISHU,the post is good enough,for those who have an inclination to learn.THIS DEFICIENCY of the people is turned by the other benificiaries duly elected by the people to their advantage after the polls with manipulations of all sorts,to make it appear as a people''s mandate,which in fact is not the case.
If at all the people have to draw a lesson from the past sixty years of experiences,it is their choices are very limited in electing honest people mostly as their representatives.
The prevelant election costs incurred by each contestant in all elections,proves this point amply!!!
Even the GOVT levies the service tax on the services!!!
The difference is only in the use of language either by appeasing or condemning in the spread of hatred!!!
The people,social NGOs should also be involved in curbing such contingencies!!!
Sure the GOVT is alive to its responsibilities!!!
They consider ir it as a freak accident!!!
In their realm all are possible to suit their interests!!!
At least the CM does not think so,as one is ignorant of it as nothing of the kind is seen!!!
It becomes a mirage,when and where self interests rule the roost!!!
None can curtail this freedom of choice!!!
Let us not have any fears and wait for it!!!
All the others may have them!!!
This LEGACY of non-violence and values preached by him should be etched in the hearts of every INDIAN.What is the use of looking for discarded items left behind by him,while the people have forgotten him and hid preachings???
The PPAs often brings in their wake a very bad name and stinking smell to the democratic values/traditions!!!
But it is unfortunate though that talent and politics mostly tends to be a mismatch in the present day political styles!!!
This ensures both stability and prosperity!!!
Both have to shape their outlook and policies to meet the global challenges,of which we are a part essentially,being the largest democracy!!!
It is a most important task for GOVT,than to provide security for IPL!!!
They may have to find yet a right key to accomplish this task!!!
The Left (four parties group) is not a part of it.So is the case with BSP,BJD,who want to go alone.AIDMK did not attend the dinner meeting hosted by BSP''S chief Mayawati.None knows,how the grand alliance in AP goes after the polls.
For sure even if it takes place,it could not contest on a common election SYMBOL for the obvious reasons.
There is not even an agreed common minimum programme and all are going tangential with their likes and dislikes of personalities,but not policies.To put it more precisely, it is just a loose cannon.
None knows the shape of things to come after polls,with so many jumping frogs in the field!!!
Since about the last TEN days or so!!!
Indeed a pitiable situation.Let us all hope that the human spirit would overcome these barriers soon!!!
They are in hunt for power either by hook or crook at any cost unfortunately.It is time for all to have an introspection and come together for the "welfare" of the people,which should be the ultimate goal of every party.National interests are paramount!!!
Fot ultimately the tax payers have to invariably
pay for it!!!
Law and order is a must for any development.None has a right to intervene in the life styles of people in a democracy!!!
But the fact of the matter is none could be self reliant 100% more so in a globalised economy or even otherwise,for all are interdependent on one another!!!
MR.Nariman,it all depends on through which side of the prism one is looking at.When we say "divisive politics" they are not confined to religions only,they are equally applied to class,caste,creed etc,considerations too!!!
MR.Nariman,we have an accepted policy of seize and squeeze which could be put into operation by the IC!!!
It happens mainly due to rise in population and the resultant pollution,because of an uneven development!!!
But no listeners!!!
Before one could see the day light!!!
Love is no exception!!!
It should be strictly dealt with in conformity of the laws of the land!!!
People hope on each occasion that the next budget would herald a new era!!!
From a government which is certain to lay down office shortly!!!
This is just not possible as per our own constitution itself!!!
However the issue should be debated thoroughly at appropriate forums!!!
When analyzed for reasons,what comes to the forefront at all times remains a feeling of insecurity,culminating in a "power possessive attitude" to ward it off!!!
To all those involved for dereliction of their duties,without any hesitation what so ever!!!
Whether one is active or dormant!!!
1.Born leaders.
2.Manufactured leaders.
3.Self proclaimed leaders.
It depends on where the people would like to fit them in ultimately!!!
The first one aims at ushering an awareness and the second one aims at imposing punishments for non conformances!!!
All know no single issue could carry conviction with the people!!!
MR.Nariman,it is fully understood.As we know,none is without emotions and issues as such have no emotions friend.All exploit all types of emotional states of people.Have we ever seen elections any where void of emotions friend???
MR.Nariman,all parties raise an emotional issue to catch votes,be it "AAM ADMI,AYODHYA,LAND ONLY FOR TILLERS,FREEBIES PROMISSED BY ALL PARTIES ONE WAY OR THE OTHER ETC".
Yes,no single party gets even a simple majority in 2009 LS polls and it is going to be a kichidi government again!!!
MR.Nariman,it is nice of you to admit that BJP a non-existant party as you put it,has gained ground now,what ever be the attributes!!!
MR.Nariman,for all practical purposes the 26/11 case is a gone case.At best it could be of academic interest only now!!!
MR.Nariman,appeals are normally made by the effected people.The NHRC or NCW could go in appeal.The governments usually go for appeals only after the judgements if it wants to.
Remember the SC also gave certain directions/guidelines to be observed while granting bails specially with regard to cases which may not warrant punishments below seven years!!!
It does not have any other option while facing evil forces!!!
They are bored to hear the stereo type "duets"in a static posture!!!
OR OTHER SENAS ETC,whose spread extends to more than one state???
All indulge in name calling and mudslinging only.
Did any party put forward any time bound or concrete proposals in terms of "development,welfare,employment,education,security and safety of the citizens,reforms in all areas,toning up of administration,eradication of corruption,self reliance in defence etc"??? None has put it on priorities atleast.All speak in vague and general utopian terms unfortunately!!!
Time for people to wake up to question "on specifics", their representatives or leaders,when they come too woo your votes!!!
People should demand as a matter of their right to say if they want,that "no candidate is fit" to be their representative,both in the old and new systems of voting(EVMs). If the majority tells so,fresh elections should be held in the constituency,after disqualifying all those who contested earlier!!!
A truly welcome feature to curb endless litigations!!!
Humanity has been too large,to take them on at all times and succeded to restore peace and order!!!
MR.Nariman,his matter has not even come up for trial in the lower court as yet.So where is the question of any one appealing further???
MR.Nariman,all others are there to fool the electorate,even if BJP is not there!!!
MR.Nariman,I don''t think it is their single stance which brought them the electoral dividends.More than their stance,it is the follies of congress and others,which culminated in it!!!
Now that they have multiple stances like others,let us see how people would give their verdict and subsequent formulations that are bound to take place,in the race for power!!!
MR.Nariman,if the age is not the criterion,none need to grumble,when people over 70 years,phisically fit and mentally agile can all contest the elections,assuming that this will not attract provisions of discriminations,not allowed constitutionally!!!
MR.Nariman,in the first place this is quite unrelated to the topic.Even then,for comparisons it could have been more helpful,had you furnished the data of other cities,in this context,and the source of such a statistical information!!!
Can we expect this even now from you friend!!!
This matter should be left to the people,unless the government has reasons to impose the restrictions!!!
All people in 21st century should abhore this old trade!!!
No single stance can brighten the poll prospects of any party.One shold have the other stances too.Any way the people will be the ultimate judges in all elections!!!
But this process should not end up with further social divisions,in election after election!!!
It is not a question of the individual alone,but a principle!!!
It followed the foot prints left by others!!!
The IC should come together to remove this scourge aganist humanity,lock stock and barrel!!!
MR.jeejabhai,your valuble experiences,in this context,provide us the guidance.BTW!!!
Unfortunately,Nothing inspires us except self interests!!!
MR.Nariman,we have a provision in our judicial system, to go in appeal to the next court till the full bench of SC gives its final verdict in all such cases!!!
MR.Nariman,Your are right,but these are the subjects beyond the comprehension of poor/common people or for that matter,most of the intellectuals even, who are not conversant/familiar with the subject!!!
MR.Nariman,you are absolutely right friend!!!
MR.Nariman,neither it is first of its kind nor the last.Whatever be the forms of government,enforcement and conformance to laws makes all the difference friend!!!
This classic case amply proves this point,when the fraudsters are being treated like VVIPs in jail/custody!!!
MR.Nariman,we all know what they all mean to the common people,in action!!!
Evidences are to be gathered to successfully prosecute the culprits!!!
Instances could be instantaneous but our judicial process is laborious!!!
MR.Nariman,prepoll postures are different from the postpoll pictures.The reality is people mourn the loss of the dear for a while,and return to their normal life styles there after friend!!!
Coalition compulsions have their CMPs,whatever be the nature of "oppurtunistic groupings" either prepoll or post poll!!!
What matters in politics, is to have power at any cost!!!
This is the most funny part of INDIAN politics!!!
1.INDIA slams PAK.
2.PAK slams INDIA.
3.US slams PAK.
4.PAK slams BANGLADESH.
5.BANGLADESH slams PAK.
It is good all Grand slams thus far were in
N-V positions!!!
Since most of them walk into our country either with or without passports and Visas freely!!!
The question is why no convictionS took place in those cases so far and who are his gaurdians/protectors,since BJP said it has nothing to do with this RAMSENA???
To assertain and analyse the facts,before any conclusions are drawn!!!
..PRINCIPLE on a preagreed "quota system" for all posts!!!
This will help to eliminate divisive politics and ensures peace and harmony in the society without any acrimonies!!!
MR.Nariman,agreed that it is "the" problem!!!
MR.Nariman,pride leads all before their fall as we know.After the fall, they go in search of brides(excuses).This the most fasinating part!!!
MR.Nariman,BJP did pay the price for its follies!!!
As to how best it could avoid working at cross purposes!!!
MR.Nariman,you are right with the principle!!!
MR.Nariman,We may have to wait and endure, till the people get fully frustated or a noble leader emerges from and out of the people!!!
After a dark night,the day light invariably follows friend!!!
MR.Nariman,the laws provide it!!!
May be it is high time for the concerned people to apply their minds to redress this lacune friend!!!
Madam,in my considered opinion,people who ramain as mute spectators when a henious crime is committed or injustice done are the true sick people!!!
We,the people can do wonders,if only we are alive to these situations and do our duty as citizens!!!
This has become a daily common feature in our country as we all know INSTITUTONS are "abstract" without people!!!
MR.brijeshdev,It is not a charity to be given.It is the bounden duty of the society/GOVT,to provide safety and security to all its members/citizens!!!
The worst outrage is the "bystander''s apathy" of people, when an outrage is being committed!!!
MR.Nariman,we call "ignorance is bliss".Any way one has to pay for their acts ultimately,which ever way we look at it friend.As we sow we reap.We may circumvent the man made laws,but not that of nature!!!
MR.Nariman,in a nutshell it means all are sinners and we are yet to see a (non-existant) real saint!!!
Agreed without any qualms friend!!!
However,one has to pay the price at some point or the other,in some form or the other, for the violations!!!
MR.KRISHU,it is a pertinent question to be taken note of by all the concerned!!!
MR.Nariman,in such cases of mob violence,just a delay of two days is understandable!!!
MR.Nariman.manifestos are mainly meant to take group photos while releasing them waving their hands.How many of the members of any party had an oppurtunity atleast to see them,leave alone understanding them.They are only well crafted or drafted words and nothing else!!!
I fully agree with your last sentence friend!!!
MR.Nariman,if it happens it should be welcomed,for every defeat in its wake sets an introspection process,with added humility!!!
MR.Nariman,''am in full agreement withthe point!!!
MR.Nariman,it applies to all,for our INDIAN culture happens to be the same.The beauty lies in the "subject" but not in the "object" the predicate being the same friend!!!
MR.Nariman,But the poor man does not know,his final monthly expenditure when added up, is on the rise by leaps and bounds!!!
MR.Nariman,it seems the "confusion" is a unique characterstic of our culture!!!
This is a matter to be closely looked into by all concerned agencies to establish the facts!!!
MR.Nariman,let us not mix up issues.One relates to conduction of elections, where the election commission collectively, takes any or all the decisions!!!
The other one relates to appointments and discharges/removals,of persons,which are purely administrative in nature!!!
MR.KRISHU,you are very right with your conclusion.I may like to add the next step after dictatorship is only "Anarchy" going by the history itself friend!!!
MR.Nariman,my post does not relate to his controversial letter,but to the other two letters
in which the "most welcome and well meaning suggestions" made by the CEC in all fairness friend!!!
There are no time frames for making some good suggestions by any one and more so for a CEC
while holding office or even otherwise!!!
It is upto the courts now to deal with it!!!
So it opted for the route of "Red tape" raising querries to delay its response as long as possible!!!
Of course this is after laying down the offices in the election commission.
He also made a suggestion in one of his two more letters sent,besides the controversial letter, to amend the constitution,"BARRING ANY CEC OR EC" to join any political party for a period of ten years,from the date of demitting their offices in the election commission!!!
Both the suggestions are credit worthy.Let them not be politicised too,which were made obvously in the interests of a healthy democracy!!!
Of course this is after laying down the offices in the lection commission.
He also made a suggestion in one of his two more letters sent,besides the contraversial letter, to amend the constitution,"BARRING ANY CEC OR EC" to join any political party for a period of ten years,from the date of demitting their offices in the election commission!!!
Both the suggestions are credit worthy.Let them not be politicised too,which were made obvously in the interests of a healthy democracy!!!
MR.Nariman,with the given attitudes in our country,none laments,even if lives are expendable,unless it touches them.Only then they raise their voices,lead protest marches,even going to the extent of damaging the public properties!!!
Can you please tell,why we should have violent or non-violent protests here,whenever some thing happens some where unconcerned to us though,all in the name of humanism.Do you mean to say that Indians are no humans,when they were held hostage,by a group prepared to kill them or killed them???We all know how MUFTI''S daughter was saved from their clutches!!!
No friend.Atleast we agreed that there should not be any double standards???Didn''t we???
MR.Nariman,there are defeciencies and I fully agree with what you said.I always said there is room for improvement in any system and no system is static friend.This is all the more reason,why we should have reviews of all systems, at regular intervals to see how best or how worst
the introduced systems are functioning!!!
The people alone have to say it loud and clear,when their elected representatives err or fail, either in their attitudes or approches.Let us accept the fact that no reform or rvolution would succeed,without people''s active participation friend!!!
MR.KRISHU,You are right.I only hit the ball for a sixer,to drive home the point that we do not need a fresh stringent law,when ever a law has been defied.
If any action is to be taken,it is aganist deriliction of one''s own duties or functions,friend.BTW!!!
TO restore confidence of people in these two institutions in our democratic set up!!!
LAWLESSNESS TO PREVAIL in the society once again.People wonder why this " ABOUT TURN ",now!!!
They also wonder,the law being the same,why should there be so many differing judgements from court to court and from bench to bench!!!
In the long run this may not augur well both for the country and people!!!
This is ideally preferable,for its "dynamism,vision,experience/maturity and will" to usher in the much needed changes from time to time.
They should lead the youngsters by imparting the right value systems,and should not hesitate to seek advices when ever and where ever needed, from elders or seniors in taking the nation forward.This would be a good blend at all times!!!
What lacks is only enforcement and compliance!!!
people elect their representatives to form a government to effectively govern and administer to arrest any violations,for the good of the people!!!
MR.Nariman,we often hear about mortality,brutality,casuality,legality etc,but very rarely about morality.It is good you brought this most forgotten word to life again friend!!!BTW.
They all speak of our efficiency and effectiveness in delivering the justice ultimately one day or the other in course of time!!!
MR.Nariman,it could have been an ideal situation,but painfully "LAWS are in shelves and
MORALS are in pits"!!!
It is for the people to prepare their balnce sheets at the end!!!
People are pleased with it and thank them profusely!!!
MR.Nariman,it is a people''s government and power is in their hands.If they misuse the same,for small petty gains,when the oppurtunity knock''s on their doors,they have alone to blame themselves for these sorry state of affairs across the country!!!
Hope all parties would put into practice this rule in the issue of tickets to their candidates in the forth coming general elections,to start with and set up a healthy precedent!!!
Only then,any meaningful welfare measures could be initiated and stability established.No government can function,when a gun is put to its head!!!
Power to "recommend" is different from the power to "decide" on a matter,either way,with the attendent risks,and the responsibilities,that lie with the decision maker alone!!!
Say for example,our judiciary and election commission,which depend largely on governmental budgettory allocations to run their establishments!!!
Unless this great legal anamoly is eliminated,totally,there is nothing much left to take pride, that they are independent institutions,away from government and answerable to the prsident alone!!!
MR.Nariman,we need to have the periodical reviews
of our plans,policies,proceedures,rules,regulations
implementations and the age old laws etc!!!
If necessary by amending the constitution for acting in the absence of PM/CM,should any such situation arises,to "avoid a vaccum" in running the government/administration.This lacune should be addressed on priority,than leaving it in the air!!!
This may usher in a new era!!!
Friend,as you should also be knowing,one of the meanings of culture,besides others, relate to "customs of a particular civilization or group!!!
What ever be the name,one cannot deny that "such customs did exist in several civilizations and various groups in the past".
Friend,this was discussed and is being discussed.The laws are in place to punish in all such cases!!!
Friend, views are different from actions.We can agree to disagree,but there cannot be two opinions on disapproving the lawlessness,what ever be the cause propounded!!!
Friend,punishments would come only after trials and sentensements.What is wanted is such elements should not be let free,till the trial is over!!!
Friend,agreed.Each and every action cann''t be construed as a reform,for reformations should be constructive,aimed at refinements,but not degradations.
Certainly Violence is destructive in nature and the government should put it down firmly!!!
Like what friend???
This is the most amusing part!!!
They are bound to result in contradictions and confusions diluting the main issue itself!!!
Wish him all the best to progress further quickly.
The question is,in what way this is going to help the world now???
Let the GOVT act fast on the matter!!!
Through out the country,and shut down all the activities connected to the "extraction,production and consumption with no reservations"!!!
It would have been more appropriate had he said it on health grounds.But even then it is of one''s choice,but not a thing to be imposed upon!!!
It is where all pluralities,dualities merge into a singularity!!!
For their main votebanks get depleted for certain!!!
MR.Nariman,an endless search is nothing but wasted efforts friend!!!
The judiciary should go by merits while granting bails to these people,but nut automatically and in a routine manner.They should use their discretionary powers to turn down the pleas for grant of bail!!!
The legal fraternity should also raise to the ocassion and help in speedy disposal of the cases!!!
The history tells us,it has been the fear born out of "Might is right" principle,which individually they are unable to face,and hence the need for a system to collectively face it,for their protection!!!
When a government fails to live up to this fundamental expectation,and ensure it,people wonder,whether we need a government at all!!!
It matters little to them whether the PM is from LS OR RS for this falls under the domain of the constitution and its provisions!!!
MR.Nariman,scams do exist in all systems with greed as the constant factor.But in democracy,which has a open society,they are trumpeted mostly,reaching high decible levels.This is all the difference friend!!!
MR.Nariman,this proposition will not be acceptable to both sides as every one knows friend!!!
MR.Nariman,it may happen even in the short term friend going by the trends!!!
It existed here from times immemorial,which fact cannot be denied!!!
Let all gracefully accept this fact and not create unwarranted and unnecessary ruccus in the society for their petty political gains.This has been our native culture as well, and not an imported one!!!
Let us hope better counsells would prevail to put an end to the ongoing sordid affair!!!
MR.Nariman,when the people have elected a government,for a particular period,it automatically means they gave their assent for it to take all decisions and govern for the good of the people!!!
But where people fail to shoulder the responsibilities,they tend to pass on the buck,by resorting to such gimmics,only to gain time to hold on to their chairs as long as possible,not that they are necessary friend!!!
MR.Nariman,it is not what X,Y,Z has said that matters,but what one does when in government!!!
MR.Nariman,even lord Shri Ram would not have approved such despicable approches and incidents.
These are all highly deplorable perversions friend,which should be stopped in their tracks forthwith,by the respective governments!!!
MR.Nariman,when in panic,specially in emergencies of these sorts,people find it difficult to communicate properly up and down,specially when we have a lengthy higherarchy and naturally this has been a systemic failure!!!
This is a continuing process!!!
Governments would do well to open statewise training camps and hire the services of these hooligans to train the force,which avoids the need to go in for costly equipments for the force!!!
Efforts are on to set up a world record of sorts
evidently!!!
However with good governing/regulating measures,
it may try to reduce the impact of such shocks!!!
As they have turned out to be "immoral dens".This is a healthy precedent in the direction of good governance,instead of passing on such a credit to all sorts of SENAS!!!
If some think they have the right to have their freedom of action,government has more freedom to curb any or all immoral activities!!!
MR.prabirdatta1,Obama administration has now made its intentions,as a logical follow up,by openly declaring that it would not assume any sort of mediatory role in J&K issue.
This itself is a "welcome departure" from all the former administration stands taken hitherto!!!
They do believe that it should be that of GOVT''S.
If not they would like to be corrected by the concerned authority!!!
MR.Nariman,a democratically elected government need not go for "Referundums" on each and every policy decision it makes with in the framework of constitutional powers ,for it is its main responsibility friend!!!
It may follow next friend!!!
We pay just a lip service to them and do not hesitate to serve the criminals more and stoop to any level mostly to serve the self interests
unfortunately!!!
He just goes his way!!!
This is the prayer on behalf of all people.
The actions will follow next.We do not want to have "double standards" in public life.Our constitutional laws are liberal and more humane in confering the civilian rights even to "Terrorists" to proclaim we are "holier than thou"!!!
Now how they get translated into actions,is to be seen!!!
What structural changes PAK GOVT would do,to alter the matters in future is an interesting concern for all nations!!!
MR.Nariman,did I ever make any statement that only a particular system is perfect???
As for the comparisons which is superior or inferior,more often than not,they are only subjective ones!!!
MR.Nariman,we can adopt a "No nonsense" approch, only when our people have the right attitudes of bravery and sacrifice.If only the relatives and friends of the passengers in particular and people in general had sttod up to the challenge then,this episode would not have happened at all!!!
But unfortunately people mostly by nature are "Hypocrites".This weakness shall be exploited by others at all times!!!
MR.jeejabhai,some "envy them" with all knowledge.
This is a pity friend!!!
MR.Nariman,yet to see a flowing river with "fragrance" friend!!!
Hope always leads the people and any or all improvements in this direction, should be cherished and appreciated!!!
Better they are left to the government of the day
at all times and places!!!
MR.Jeejabhai,pity the supressed man cast down!!!
MR.KRISHU,all actions are motivated right or wrong!!!
All can hold on to their beliefs.Nothing wrong in it friend!!!
People should be happy about it!!!
People hope some good may flow from the follow up actions!!!
One can understand its financial resources!!!
If the answer is "yes" they only deserve the commensurate punishments.If the answer is "NO",what is there to discuss???
One thing is certain.It will be a coalition GOVT once again!!!
INDIA at all times extends its hospitality to both friends and foes alike.We abide by the dictum "Hate the sin,but not the sinner"!!!
Congrats to ATS for this speedy work!!!
Our politicians have only "ideas" to service their interests,but not "ideologies or principles" to serve the people!!!
One is yet to find it in absolute terms!!!
The truth is all beings do live with some sort of violence or the other in this world!!!
MR.Nariman,forget not the fact that the IC has veered round finally to our view that this a bilateral issue to be sorted out,and the same process has been going on with Pakistan to resolve the issue!!!
None need to poke their nose in this context,more so the LeT which has been banned by the IC as a terrorist outfit,which just started singing a new tune today,which is in no way connected to the issue.!!!
MR.Nariman,the fact of the matter is,it is not made available for all as yet!!!
MR.Nariman,if scam after scam is not there,how can one meet the costs of election after election???
MR.KRISHU,how are you sure that the constitution is going to be amended,after this SATYAM case???
Who would like to leave the green pastures,which feed!!!
MR.Nariman,how can we expect it in a highly corrupt society and unfortunately, people''s contribution for this sorry state of affairs is not in small measure either???
MR.Nariman,as we know this "free for all democracy" is in operation only for a few,on a selective basis,and still ramains as an exclusive ZONE of the previleged class,but not for all!!!
MR.Nariman,nothing of the sort happened since you made your post.!!!
MR.Nariman,shoud it bother us in moving forward!!!
MR.KRISHU,agreed you have a point there!!!
Friends,read the word as "VIABLE INSTEAD OF VIOBLE" typed in a hurry.Sorry for the mistake!!!
MR.Nariman,your post is contrary to the stands taken by you,in the name of freedom of expression
when some of the artists hurted or insulted the sentiments of lot of people in our country earlier and instead called the protesters by all names!!!
Why these double standards friend???
Their intention is to avoid all unintended consequences otherwise!!!
Knowledge being unlimited has a tendency to cause
turbulence otherwise,much to the chargin of politicians!!!
The youth should thank their stars for ignorance is a bliss for them!!!
MR.Nariman,yes making laws endlessly is no solution as you said.But the their implementation has to be taken care of by ensuring a good governance alone!!!
MR.Nariman,which is the other perfect system to replace it,for we all know that money plays a vital role,in all types of systems???
It would make as a single entity, the region more stable,economically more vioble and politically more formidable to ensure peace and prosperity for the people!!!
Who knows he might win an OSCAR shortly!!!
MR.Nariman,we have two options.The first one relates to an "uniform implementation" of the laws,with speedy disposals of the cases aganist the offenders!!!
Alternatively,in a "free for all democracy" it is desirable to dump the constitution and its laws into the dust bins,there by avoiding any botheration of implementations!!!
If we adopt the later course,atleast,we can make INDIA a "great tourist center",where all can do what ever they want most cheerfully, while the country can generate all sorts of employment and earn the most precious foreign exchange!!!
MR.Nariman,you are absolutely right friend.The trouble arises due to "selective approches" with either bending, or amending or breaking the laws,which should not be the case!!!
MR.kmahmed,because of our positive thinking only,I happened to post the facts,which you have also confirmed now.There is no doubt we have to co-operate with each other,as we are living in an interdependent world.
Your feelings are understandable,when you brought in the unfortunate episode of "samjhota" express.As you pointed out, in both the versions as given out,they stand as allegations only, which need to be probed in depth to establish the truth,which should be welcomed by us all!!!
It expects INDIA to do more in connection with the investigations.It has put the ball back in INDIA''S court!!!
Needs no further comments,in this context!!!
It is supposed to be an "Age group affinity"!!!
INDIANS,specially the youth of the same age group,should treat it as an honour confered on
INDIA,the largest democracy in the world!!!
This much has been made clear by the confidence reposed in it,by investors,customers and employees!!!
The fact that the new board has not asked for a bail out package,confirms it.As for the rest the laws will take their own course!!!
INDIA agreed finally,for a transperent trail of the culprits OF 26/11/08, in PAKISTAN,BY GOVT OF PAKISTAN!!!
Now none need to have any tensions!!!
This automatically negates a joint probe.Sure INDIA''s co-operation can stretch to any length and is unlimited!!!
The IC appreciates this noble gesture!!!
May be the recent visit of the foreign secretary of UK to both PAK & INDIA was to convey this message!!!
The BRITISH foreign secretary also said it was counter productive.If that be the case,did he visit both PAK& INDIA to convince them now, about its futility,to safe gaurd its own interests???
The classic example is the "double standards" hitherto followed,by the very people who called for a collective "war on terror" when it suited their interests,but not that of others!!!
One can fight an open enemy,but not the hidden enemy,unless one busts the shelters and shelterers totally!!!
All agree that war should be a last option, to "restore order and peace",but the options should have a clearly specified time frames,be it collectively or individually,lest the tall talks tend to be irrelevant at all times!!!
Any agreed precise answers from the governments on either side,given their stands to convince the people???
MR.Nariman,this is what happens,when the laws are either circumvented or totally ignored with unbridled freedom,by the self seekers,where there is no fear of a speedy trial and commensurate punishment!!!
MR.KRISHU,Change is part of the dynamic nature.For good or bad, time alone reveals!!!
MR.KRISHU,Those wre the days where leaders and people stood for values and sacrificed mostly with a single direction and goal to attain independence!!!
Gone are those days and all know what kind exists now, friend!!!
FROM "RULE OF THE WISE & LAW ABIDING CITIZENS" TO
"THE RULE OF WHIMS AND FANCIES BY DESPOTS & LAW DIFYING CITIZENS"!!!
This goes in a cyclic process step by step.
This happens to be tragio-comic saga of humanity!!!
And also during the remaining 3-4 months tenure of the current government!!!
Friend,it seems GOVT formed a committee to go into the affair as usual and directed them to give their report with in three months.Now it is clear where it would lead us,without any solid actions!!!
MR.isumulukutla,PAK made it clear,in the first case there is no extradition treaty between both the countries and in the second case it said,only information was given to them,but not the evidence to try them there.
So what next friend and where do we go from here???
MR.Kanamula,your point is valid,however,as is known,"corruption" assumes several forms,to influence both thoughts and actions,in pursuit of a goal always!!!
But mostly they do plump for popularity for the simple reason,people fall a prey for cheap tastes!!!
MR.KRISHU,Not a bad idea.But we have about one billion people before us waiting in the que as you also know!!!
MR.KRISHU,Both of us do not have either the money power nor mustle power to be in politics,which is the reason why we joined the
group of so called opinion makers!!!
MR.Nariman,where else can we derive such a great pleasure of "singing such a melodious tune" after each and every successive SCAM???
People can go to and sleep in perfect peace with such rocking lulbies!!!
MR.Nariman.where "corruption" rules the roost,such disasters strike too often as we have seen.
We all so know, nothing much happens after that and all tend to forget them,allowing the culprits to move around happily,to committ more crimes!!!
It is for our government to sit together to decide on the "firm actions" it itends to take aganist PAK,and also speak with one voice!!!
Any delay could prove to be quite detrimental and fatal too, to the national interests!!!
It is for our government to sit together to decide on the "firm actions" it itends to take aganist PAK,and also speak with one voice!!!
Any delay could prove to be quite detrimental and fatal too, to the national interests!!!
THAT THEY WILL NOT HAND OVER ANY SUSPECTS TO INDIA???
Time for INDIA to sort out its own fixations and course of actions!!!
MR.KRISHU,a concised response was posted above, aganist your message more or less on the same lines.
The statement of MR.BUSH should be read with the content and context friend!!!
MR.KRISHU,your question is very much relevant,but as a part of the Global terrorism,which should be faught without any reservations,collectively if possible or individually if not feasible!!!
Well friend, we all know the disease relating to the Kashmir problem was "partition" of the country,the root cause of it was an "identity or affinity" to the religious faiths and the "right medicine for treatment" lies in achieving "unity"!!!
When we have cases of "unification" of divided states across the world,none need to wonder, if and when the same could materialise in our case as well.BTW!!!
They can take pride in having set up a record of sorts!!!
Which is not the case.It is a global fight aganist terror by all countries.
One should not forget the fact that "Terror has several forms and the fight is not a one time affair"!!!
This needs to be done at regular intervals,to ensure transperency alround,for the health of the economy and to safegaurd the interests of the investors!!!
It is not enough we make the laws,but the governments have to constantly monitor how they are being implemented too!!!
Now people can relax!!!
IT is no different from Bank officers strikes.
All have a right to strike.Government has a right
too to deal with it as they deem fit.Judiciary has a right to entertain, if a petition comes before it on the issue.Public has a right to agitate.Police has a right to enforce the laws to maintain the order.Media has a right to highlight any news!!!
All enjoy the rights and prefer to shirk the responsibilities!!!
This has been it''s stand ever since 26/11/08,more or less!!!
It seems there are too many aspirants for this post!!!
It has thus far proved to be a LLL!!!
How he did grow stronger and larger with every step which was awesome!!!
This change should not prove to be only cosmatic!!!
This is democracy!!!
They serve no purpose void of actions!!!
..OF THE GOVT,with regard to the non-implementation of the over due, revised pay scales till date, as assured!!!
This is both unfortunate and unwarranted!!!
Probably it could be any thing,but not surely black mail!!!
Hope you are quite comfortable in your present work environment with no vibes,for sure, you have avoided friends from that finance department!!!
May God bless you!!!
They are not even concerned about others or their owes.
Strange is the logic of humans!!!
MR.Nariman,can you tell why should the situation come to such an impasse and who all are responsible in the first place for such a situation to develop???
We know that one can blackmail the other,only when a grave wrong was done by that other and not otherwise!!!
No wonder, for a fuel crisis is a random case,while the former case is a never ending process!!!
MR.Nariman,only a high power committee could look into this complex issue and to make suitable recommendations for course/systemic corrections!!!
UN remains only as a convienient tool at all times,to be driven by some power or the other!!!
This shows either its ignorance or audacity or both,for the reasons better known to it.
Now the question remains what actions could be taken by the "International community and India" aganist Pakistan,for its flagrant violations of the norms,which includes its own committments made earlier,and if so when???
-What is the use of scoring self goals,specially by the gpvernment time and again.This only shows that we do not have any "automatic administrative mechanisms" in place to take care of all such situations!!!
It is a pity!!!
All are waiting to see for further actions to emanate from it after fully going through the 26/11 evidence!!!
These could be black spots,but need not be construed as set backs for INDIA INC alone.
However,such undisirable instances provide the governments and their regulatory bodies,an oppurtunity to plug the loop holes in the working systems and legal grey areas,if any, for good!!!
Specially when it is read with the fact that its NSA paid the price,for revealing it!!!
EMOLUMENTS,OF ALL,WITH THE RISE AND FALL OF "COST OF LIVING INDEX", on a quarterly basis instead of having "committees & commissions"at regular intervals of five years+.!!!
This saves precious time alround and needless strikes,besides improving both the "QUALITY & PRODUCTIVITY" of work,in all fields!!!
This is a fact of life proved time and again any where!!!
Very rarely prevails and this is an undeniable fact of life!!!
The risk factors are always there,ASSOCIATED WITH MONEY whether they are INCs or LINKs!!!
At the same time,it should not hesitate to conceed the reasonable demands at the earliest,from the chapter of demands presented to it.
It is the job of any government to end any manace
in their country/state!!!
An experts committee may be appointed to find out ways and means of avoiding the recurrence!!!
We all know there are always two sides to every thing, either merits & demerits or advantageous and disadvantages.To avoid the misuse,the people need to observe self restraint basically!!!
We are equally quite habituated to lodge our protests after each such event!!!
Time for all parties to put it back on track!!!
Some deadlocks are only to be solved in time,after they get rusted!!!
INDIA''S "WILL to fight aganist terror" will boost
the NIA!!!
This is the most unfortunate part!!!
MR.jeejabhai,we don''t attend uninvited functions,unlike you friend!!!
MR.Krishu,but the great paradox is, PAK pretending as if it is a victim of India''s designs,and our government is walking into the trap with defensive denials!!!
This is to convince the IC, that it is reasonably restraining itself,not to precipitate matters and diturb the "peace process",WHICH IS UNNECESSARY AND UNWARRANTED!!!
MR.Nariman,any actions on options are likely to be considered only after our LSP are over,for the obvious reasons.As it seems till then, the the "war of wor(l)ds" would ccontinue,in all probability!!!
MR.ismulukutla,our constitution bars "sedition" and demands for it are punishable as is known!!!
MR.KRISHU,they are automatically covered under people!!!
Wishing every one a "Happy,peaceful and prosperous new year".
The IC should take note of it,what good neighbourly relations we maintain,despite provocations!!!
This aspect should also be included,in the terms of reference for the panel''s probe,for a detailed study and analysis!!!
The international community should take note of it and INDIA should put an end to this "words game being played alround" specially after the 26/11/08 terrorist attacks on our country,to enable it to excercise its own options,without loosing time any further!!!
This makes their position crystal clear in this regard!!!
It would have been more appropriate for the centre to order for a detailed probe!!!
They are not "admissable evidences" in courts as per law either in PAK or INDIA!!!
But how about the purported proofs furnished by US & UK to it, on which PAK is silent???
MR.Nariman,when we say "vibrant democracy" it could either mean a "matured democracy or an emerging democracy".The difference lies while it is more harmonious in the case of the former,it is more disharmonious in the case of the later.
The mindset of our people still revolves round the "Monarchial system" of the yester years.Though our constitution has adopted a western "democratic system" of governance,the people are not yet fully prepared mentally to adjust or adopt to it!!!
It is this belief of the people,which has resulted in the "Dynastic politics" mostly in vogue now!!!
In this context,the views of ARISTOTLE makes an interesting reading!!!
An apt quote that fits well with Gita saying!!!
MR.jeejabhai,people welcome your "Inagural garbage post" and expect many more from you friend!!!
It is true that we are getting stronger with every event!!!
Even after more than a month''s lapse,the situation,in this regard remains "As is where is" basis!!!
People would love to see this in force, at the earliest!!!
..TO SCORE A POLITICAL POINT, WHEN HE SAID AT INDORE,that "Unlike BJP,CONGRESS DID NOT NEGOTIATE with the terrorists(Kandahar hijack case)", there by implying,that congress was fully aware of the fact prior, to the "impending attack on 26/11/08 at MUMBAI"!!!
As if this is not enough,he asserts,that he stands by what he said at INDORE.!!!
People wonder what would be the response of UPA government,in this context!!!
Friend,more than the qualification,it is always the orientation towards the development that counts chiefly!!!
This is the most funniest part of human nature!!!
Our consistent "MANTRA" AFTER 26/11/08 has been only "PAK SHOULD ACT"!!!
For democravy to take deep roots.Best of luck for Ms.HASINA led front!!!
This connotes that we did not have a good governance in the past since the dawn of independence.Looks strange!!!
It believes the day is not far off!!!
People know very well,which issues they take up seriously,but being the stranded passengers,they are helpless!!!
For it followed a middle path as compared to the others!!!
This is a very logical question indeed!!!
If he/she does not act,it comes under "derliction of duty" under the laws!!!
It may augur well for both the people and the state!!!
MR.Nariman,no government would go publicising its intentions widely in such cases.No further comments!!!
They shall be duly noted by the IC!!!
A murder as alleged has been committed by an MLA
of her party and the matter is under investigation by the UP government,allowing the law to take its own course!!!
Nothing much has changed ever since he raised it, on the ground,except for some somersaults by Antulay,Govt and the congress in a funny manner!!!
Nothing much has changed ever since he raised it, on the ground,except for some somersaults by Antulay,Govt and the congress in a funny manner!!!
We have also kept all our doors and windows(options) open.Is this not enough???
But there is no player in the field,for all are running around the field chasing one another providing lots of amusement to the roaring spectators!!!
For them to understand the meanings of the words/sentences before attempting any translation!!!
It will only lead to anarchy where "Might alone is right" void of any laws!!!
Congress should make clear its stand on this issue without any further delay,in its own interest and the interests of the NATION!!!
For all times in upholding the our FLAG to fly high with dignity and honour!!!
Leaders led the people earlier.Now people lead the leaders.The success or failure depends on the people,while lecting their representatives(leaders)!!!
Let PAK end its duplicity for time is running out for it!!!
MR.Nariman,the difference lies in the fact that the terrorists,as you also said cannot be compared to ordinary criminals and hence the need for "tougher laws applicable to terrorists and terrorism as a distinct category"!!!
However,We share the same view point with regard to effective implementation of the laws!!!
It may be trying to ape the three proverbial apes!!!
Relating to its omissions,comissions and committments,much to the dismay of the International community!!!
The central issue has come back to square one!!!
This is beside the new laws!!!
They will not let go any oppurtunity to score!!!
The idea behind it is only to ensure natural justice!!!
This was brought in under public and media pressures,just to satisfy them that something is being done!!!
Likely to end up thoroughly bruised as the similar ones we had already!!!
For a better understanding and peaceful environment!!!
Or else the very spirit of sports is lost!!!
It is not visible in PAK!!!
This is supposed to be a "friendly warning"!!!
None needs to have any doubt on this issue!!!
INDIA IS KNOWN for its immence patience!!!
you are right in that,what precisely need are "attitudinal changes alround", for the good of the people,specially where security concerns of the people & property,are being attacked by both external and internal sources, which need to be addressed on a high priority!!!BTW.
As this arises a question of jurisdictions and methods to deal with them,since the problem is universal!!!
UNION CABINET HAS APPROVED IT AS "NATIONAL INVESTIGATION AGENCY (NIA)" and shortly the bill may come up before parliament.Centre has also given its nod for an amendemner of CISF act!!!
But its contours are yet to be made known by the government that entails a worthy debate before the final decision!!!
MR.Nariman,it matteres little in our political ethos and standards!!!
This noble spirit should be up held at all times
with constant vigil of the people coupled with the vision of the government!!!
-That alround efforts are on in this regard.Let us all hope that in their wake,the best of the results would flow out!!!
MR.Nariman,it would be naive to think that these
terror camps stand as "monuments" in the same place and position, in the realm of time forever!!!!
Good food for thought and sleep!!!
If not,All know the consequences in day to day life itself how the relationships would get affected!!!
MR.Nariman,it is well known that now single party is going to take the power at centre.One thing sure is the major national parties of CONGRESS & BJP are going to be the rallying points either prepoll or post poll alliances!!!
Given the circumstances it is often said by LEFT leaders,the possibilities for a non congress and non BJP third front appears to be bleak,though they did not give up the hopes yet!!!
In short,in these circumstances only the "oppurtunists" would alone be the king makers or queen makers once again friend!!!
MR.Nariman,when one looks at the magnitude of work load involved in evolving composite and coherent policies and their implementation,in this process,one can safely conclude that it takes at least one five year plan if not two to accomplish it.Of course we all know this would be a long term plan!!!
How ever, as a short term plan,the government should look into,how best,it could have an integrated and well co-ordinated federal system to enforce the existing laws without let up and complecency with full accountability!!!
The fight aganist TERRORISM is a global affair!!!
Time for the concerned courts here or there to take it on record during the trials to bring the culprits to book at the earliest!!!
Probably these could be unfolded in the near future!!!
MR.Nariman,one need to understand the Geo-political considerations that play the main role in bringing about the changes, at all times!!!
MR.Nariman,these balancing acts are not knew either for it or the world!!!
MR.jeejabhai,you are absolutely right!!!
MR.Nariman,words fail me to comment any further on the sorry state of affairs!!!
MR.Nariman,what you said could be a last resort for the powers that be to act upon as we all know!!!
MR.Nariman,when these outfits could change their names,opening of new accounts should not pose much of a problem.As you said flow of funds would continue either directly or indirectly.As for busting these outfits,both the options suggested by you do have unintended consequences!!!
Friend,all are waiting with hope and infinite patience, for that "somebody" to arrive on the scene!!!
With vision and full clarity, avoiding the grey areas, to serve the intended purpose effectively!!!
HM SAID IT WAS INTELLIGENCE FAILURE : PM SAID IT WAS LACK OF CO-ORDINATION!!!
IT IS TO BE PRESUMED by people, that they are all speaking in one voice to contain
"TERRORISM"!!!
They say they would go to PAK courts.Who over rules whom is the ???
Is this going to be a curtain riser???
MR.Nariman,in this process PAK has to ensure its own nationals do not become stateless actors!!!
MR.Nariman,along with it,INDIA has opted for the
alternate route of going through the UNSC!!!
IN BOTH THE HOUSES,TO THE PUBLIC, WHILE A VERY SERIOUS DEBATE ON "TERROR" IS GOING ON!!!
People are ashamed to see the "indifferent attitude of their elected representatives" in
putting up a unified face,to face terrorism,as though it is none of their business,which the whole world witnessed!!!
People are also wondering "what earthly purpose" would be served by passing an unanimous resolution in both the houses,with such meagre strengths,void of any seriousness!!!
Will it not tantamount to insulting those who are sacrificing their lives inorder to protect the lives of such people???
But this will be after discussions in parliament,as per indications, which is quite unwarranted!!!
Instead, it would be ideal that the leaders of the parties meet in the chambers of the speaker to finalise the resolution and the same be passed in parliament unanimously, with no further discussions,which would send the right signals to all concerned!!!
With the requsite modern equipment kept at their disposal!!!
MR.Arun,please understand how and when, one could blackmail the other!!!
As they are based on emotions which cannot be sustained for long.All know it and more so the politicians!!!
MR.abhi1112,the fact of the matter is, we continue to remain in the same elementary school,trying to learn our basics,even after about 60 years of independence unfortunately!!!
In the ensuing general elections we are going to have several players kicking the dust alround,in which the so called "secularist''s vote banks" would result in a division,specially when a third front formation is very much on the cards!!!
Any way ultimately it finally depends on various permutations and combinations to aquire the seat of power!!!
People are going to be the mute spectators witnessing the final scene!!!
One has to wait to see who will emerge victorious
finally!!!
But possibly it may be pondering over the matter
"where,when and how to begin with" in accomplishing the same!!!
Firstly it says,give us the evidence of our nationals involvement and we will try them as per our laws!!!
Secondly it says,it cannot hand over the terrorists of INDIAN origin,residing now in Pakistan,as there is no "EXTRADITION TREATY" between the two countries.
In short PAKISTAN is reluctant to part with the alleged terrorists to INDIA!!!
We have a "PPB" nexus which is very difficult to break,however much we may try,in the given circumstances!!!
THE SHIP!!!
The captain steering the ship will rely on the map and compass,to take it to safe shores!!!
As he happened to be one of the main contributors
for the loss of power to congress earlier!!!
1.The country affected could fight back in self defence on its own.
OR
2.Fight back with international co-operation.
The choice rests with the government of the affected country!!!
It all depends on who allies with CPI-M or vice versa.CPI-M and the LEFT are proved to be no different from any other oppurtunistic political parties,in pursuit of power.
This is the state of our politics and politicians.Great indeed!!!
Friend, all this may help to usher in an awareness among the public and could be introduced in the educational curriculams begining from now on to serve in future.
But Countering terrorism as such, is a long drawn out affair and is of a different kettle,to be dealt by the governments!!!
It is for the governments,to channelise the
people''s energies and active participations to meet the challenges,posed by this menace!!!
It is VERY MUCH desirable to fix a qualification for all the contestants to be elected by the people, in an election in the "initial stage" itself.
When one gets elected from such people,and by the people,it is upto the CM OR PM to choose his team of the council of ministers,not necessarily,more qualified amongst them,which tantamounts to "discrimination"!!!
It is quite tragic,some other''s hearts out of
greed for power,unfortunately go after votes!!!
The best way is to stop talking and start effective functioning!!!
This will go a long way to meet the requirements
at all times.
TERRORISM is the single evil that affects all and in all countries in some form or the other.Suggestions could be many.This should be faught unitedly by all the countries,with all the forces at their command.The right platform to deal with it is UNO!!!
It is advisible to make it a collective effort,either under the auspicies or with a mandate from UNO without any further delay!!!
More than the elections,what is needed now atleast,are the long awaited systematic changes in all spheres expeditiously!!!
MR.Nariman,well we know that precepts/concepts are different from practices every where!!!
MR.Panner,a simple question to you.Why did you not refer these people concerned as "INDIANS" or
"PEOPLE OF INDIANORIGIN" in your post???
MR.Nariman,the heavy fall/slide, in oil prices from about $136 to about $55 with in two months or so disproves your logic frend!!!
Regarding the price rise in other commodities,it is not attributable to any single factor,as they follow a production and demand pattern generally!!!
The question is simple.Where is the gaurantee that other countries ships/trawlers aquired by hook or crook, are not being used by the pirates,to cover up their henious acts???
MR.Nariman,the existance of "equal oppurtunities
is quite different from economical existance of equality".
Market conditions do prevail in all economies,with the difference the state determines the prices,say in communism,which are known as "administered prices",while the producer fixes them in capitalism known as "competetive prices".
Friend,in the later case,It is possible,we are likely to have the "lower prices",there is no such possibility in the former case!!!
THE "SILENCE" OF OUR PM in this context, could be a coalition compulsion!!!
THE "SILENCE" OF OUR PM in this context, could a coalition compulsion!!!
After all a "crime is a crime" and need to be curbed at all times!!!
MR.Nariman,"Frustation" for any one,any day is the exit point!!!
MR.Nariman,this is not a theme,but a principle!!!
They are all the birds of the same feather and what they talk depends upon,on which side of the fence they are!!!
MR.Nariman,freedom of speech,expression and action,have been guaranteed by the constitution,as long as they do not violate its other laws or provisions!!!
Most of us have emphasised on this aspect earlier in several cases!!!
If the agencies created under our constitution gets "demoralised" at the throw of a hat,the people have only to cross their fingures and wait!!!
MR.Nariman,it basically ensures equal oppurtunities for all to grow, out of their own free will!!!
It is upto the individuals to motivate themselves to choose their paths for progress.People should be happy that no theories or dogmas are being imposed on them.How to grow is their concern!!!
MR.Nariman,well it is a known fact that the media lives on sensational news items,and their interpretations and inferences are to be taken with a pinch of salt,for they are no gospels!!!
MR.Nariman,I draw no distinctions as long as the laws permit their activities,for all are sailing in the same boat!!!
MR.Nariman,at the outset,let me clarify,that I am no supporter of any specific "ism"!!!
Now coming to your querries,firstly,all "isms"
are people centric.There are humpteen theories which could be the best one and people friendly.This has to be decided by the majority of people!!!
Secondly the fiancial packages announced by any GOVT are supposed to be need based ones,involving the taxpayer''s money what ever be the case,just like the "waival of farmer''s loans to a tune of RS.76000/= crores,which are non recoverable!!!
Thirdly, the companies,be it an industry,trade or bussiness etc,do constitute lakhs and millions of people taken over all.In extreme situations,like the one, the world is facing now,if they are not bailed out,the result would be besides "unemployment" for all these people,it runs into billions of sufferers,when their family members are also considered,it is going to be a gretest "human calamity" friend!!!
Under the circumstances,it would be the responsibility of the government,irrespective of its "ism" to which it belongs,to raise to the occassion to mitigate the suffering of these billions of people,as a priority!!!
Regarding "Tax payers money",most of the people who coin these words often, are no tax payers friend,and it is to be discuused seperately!!!
I may emphasise here,all such situations call for an "over all view"!!!
Absolutely away from any interferences and temptations of all sorts,to ensure "impartial and proffessional enquires,prosecutions and judicial verdicts"!!!
Sure the GOVT may have its own reasons to act!!!
It could be a set back to ATS for all of them are
out of their hands currently!!!
This is what is called as "unity in diversity",
even when the people and nation are confronted with grave threats!!!
MR.Nariman,if what you say is true, can you please tell, as to why the the financial stability of erstwhile communist countries,where every thing has been fully nationalised,went haywires causing the collapse of "communism" itself???
TO ensure the same and uniform growth rate to all.These ideals remain on paper only!!!
It may also be pondering over the matter!!!
He is a man of rich and varied experiences,in coming to this conclusion!!!
This is to protect a lot of the affected people
indirectly though!!!
Any seeker would know it!!!
There is nothing that could be done from our side
in this reard now!!!
MR.Nariman,who is afraid of whom???Even assuming that some are afraid of some people it could happen from both propenents and opponents friend.
It is all the more necessary to examine the case,in the light of the "caption"of yours,to ensure natural justice friend!!!
CBI denied it ever sent a report about the involvement of VHP''S President MR.DR.Togadia to begin with!!!
When the ATS produced some of the accused in the court today,some stated that they were tortured and their confessions obtained,under duress and others may be in the denial mode of their alleged roles.The curtain is being raised for the "TRAIL" in the court and it would be quite interesting to watch there, the ensuing "twists and turns" in the case!!!
More so in India.There is nothing new in it!!!
In a democracy it is always the people!!!
To substantiate the charges in the court!!!
MR.Nariman,it appears that we have too many loope holes and grey areas in our systems,which are being exploited by the people to their advantage.
Besides this,we have "Corruption ruling the roost" from top to bottom,in all constitutional institutions,may be with very rare exceptions here and there.
What good and betterment can the ordinary people expect,in such a situation!!!
Assuming this could be true,in what way this is connected to "MALEGAON" blasts conspiracy???
MR.JEEJABHAI,IT SEEMS YOU CHERISH "HATRED AND ENIMITY",MORE THAN THE HUMAN RELATIONSHIP!!!
Well it is your choice friend.BTW!!!
MR.Nariman,your caption is apt and right.People would like to know "what precisely is being hidden,by whom it is hidden and for what purposes it is hidden"!!!
PROMOTES SONAL SHAW in his transition team.
It looks like,"litigations and politics" are our daily bread and butter,where ever we are.
Should we be proud of this great culture and traits???
1)PM took the opposition leader into confidence.
2)NSA along with I&B chief is going to meet
MR.L.K.ADVANI,the opposition leader tomorrow
to brief him.
3)ATS chief of MAHARASHTRA,distanced and delinked its investigations from other blasts being talked about,but for passing on any information which it may come across, to his counter parts in other states.
Had all these been done earlier,a lot of unwarranted talks from all sides,could have been avoided.Any way better late than never!!!
It is hoped,that these constructive approches,
in the interests of the nation would continue unhindered even in future,between the government and the opposition leader!!!
MR.Nariman,my caption of the topic applies to all and I stand by what I said that the terror "suspects" are entirely of different kettle or fish,since they stand out distinct from "other ordinary criminal suspects" friend!!!
It is a different matter that both catogeries have only one thing in common,as the saying goes that " all are innocent,till their guilt is proved.!!!
Her acceptance of the offer made,shows alround maturity.
All our best wishes.
MR.Nariman,all of us either here or there want an "impartial investigation by ATS,without fears or favours" and this has been the consistent stand of you,me and every body!!!
BUT FORTUNATELY OR UNFORTUNATELY,"too much of focus and publicity" is given to this case,keeping all other terrorist attacks aside,whether it is a selective leak or media''s speculation,coupled with our guess work in trying to analyse the available information and nothing beyond!!!
We did agree that it is advisible that "ATS or for that matter any investigative agency" should not go public,during and till the investigations are completed and charge sheets filed.But this is not the case to be.!!!
The information of bungling caused by both ATS & PROSECUTOR, about the use and diversion of "RDX" in some of these attacks gave the game away,
leading to suspicions about the investigations itself!!!
As if this is not enough,ATS chief made some interesting points to the media today, which may cause further confusions.Is this publicity necessary at this stage???
To confound the confusions, certain "phtographs" were flashed again today, about possible and probable personal linkages to some of the accused,which indicates there could be a "Hindu-Muslim" tie up or link too,in this case,going by the earlier logic of the ATS!!!
Needs no further comments as of now friend!!!
With all sorts of ideologies,theories and dogmas!!!
Indeed a very pitiable situation!!!
Why should we have these double standards in every walk of our lives? Is this the begining of wearing a protective shield for future contengencies???
Both the clarity and context are lacking.This may please be looked into!!!
What better gathering could we have to tackle them???
MR.Nariman,why this sudden U-TURN friend? when we say "communal parties",they relate to a community only!!!
MR.Nariman,let us see who will cut a sorry figure finally.No problem in waiting and watching any number of years like several others friend!!!
MR.Nariman,I follow the line uniformly, friend!!!
INDIA is a free land of wonders,where any one could speak as he/she likes,and yet could get away with it.All are possible here!!!
As we have seen in several cases in the past,which failed in the courts more often than not!!!
This much is clear from the ongoings so far!!!
The principal suspect Dewas based "Sunil joshi" is dead(murdered around 29th December 2007) as learnt,for reasons unknown and the culprits unknown.
Only guess work on claims remain!!!
This is for economical reasons.But who knows the president elect may after all decide to stay put for a longer period,on political grounds,specially in the wake of a threat to him by al-queda now!!!
All say it should not be politicised,but are doing just the opposite to meet their ends.
People are at a loss to understand as to how many agencies are going to investigate or interrogate,the suspects,including several commissions in the offing,in the same case!!!
This baffles every one!!!
No conclusions MR.Nariman.Only trying to analyse the facts as given out!!!
Quite understandable friend!!!
MR.Nariman,it is just like a cat thinks none is watching it when it drinks the milk pinched!!!
They will lead the people no where.There is a saying that "one can fool all the people once,some people all the time but not all the people all the time"!!!
People are going to prove it right shortly!!!
It said neither the Indian government nor the UK
government have proscribed them and as such no restrictions are in place for their visits under their law of 2000!!!
Any answers from the UPA government and their secular friends in other parties,in this regard???
It is more advisable to work out the necessary plans and arrangements in this direction.Sooner the better!!!
It is upto the people to come out of them or sink with them!!!
ALL professing "violence" to usher in a "revolution" by the barrel of a gun,putting poor people to a great suffering!!!
This is to recall that a late senior communist leader procliming that their participation in democratic elections was only a "SHIFT IN STRATEGY"!!!
It is cristal clear whose fronts they are!!!
A through probe is needed to bring forth the truth,as to "who is funding these militant outfits,and what are their sources for the aquisition of the arms"!!!
will the governments both in states and at centre act in time and in concert, to curb these "Militant outfits" spreading the culture of "violence" across the country, to be read with their political links???
MR.Dolfin,enough exposures could also be seen in
N''Clubs!!!
An apt quote MR.KRISHU.Expect some more fine quotes.BTW!!!
MR.Nariman,disagreed.Humans are also part of the "nature" and just like we have a violent nature in its behaviour,humans also have a violent nature in their behaviour.
The laws are the same in both the cases as they are integral totally,completely and absolutely friend!!!
Do the people there find it more inspiring,interesting,emlightening or amusing???
MR.Nariman,their inceptions is totally out of context.It is good you said, all the organisations were "implicated" in various commission reports!!!
I laud you for high lighting this.But you did not say what happened next in following them up by various governments,inorder to ensure due punishments to the culprits were handed out.!!!
This means obviously,that they do not have any concrete evidence to prosecute these people or cases.All these have "gone with the wind"!!!
MR.Nariman,this is just like which is first,the seed or the tree/plant.If any one can prove it,this riddle could be sorted out.We can wait for the answer endlessly!!!BTW.
MR.Nariman,even the government and media did not prefix it in all the earlier instances.Had it been done,the same would have been appreciated for applying "uniform norms"!!!
Even the other countries who were affected by the worst terror attacks did not prefix it.
Why now is the ???
MR.rebel,how could this be an insult to our democratic system,as long as the democratic laws or systems permit it???
MR.Arun,demoralisation cannot set in a highly motivated and disciplined armed forces!!!
This can only set in the bewildered political parties!!!
How ignorant are we all???
In steering the ship out of this turbulence,to the safe shores,despite the non-co-operation proclaimed by some!!!
Each pole has its role cut out in dividing the society.These Multiple poles to cover up their henious plots for the sake of power, "pass the buck to religions and cash in on the raw emotions of their followers"!!!
WHO IS NOT PRACTISING THE "DOUBLE STANDARDS" FRIEND!!!
MR.Nariman,this means our''s is not and we have to go a long way to deserve it!!!
MR.Nariman,the name calling is also quite invitable in a democracy.It is a game played by all parties,not that there is merit or content in all such cases!!!
MR.lavarajkumar,all this means,there are several flaws or grey areas in our constitution, and its institutions which came into being.The vested interests are fully exploiting them to their advantage!!!
People may have to wait with bated breath,till they get a new one replacing the existing one,for there is no other alternative. (TINA)!!!
MR.jeejabhai,fighting in elections is different from fighting for national interests!!!
As for the second part of your statement,away from sychophants,people have an option to cast them aside during elections!!!
MR.Raziuddin,none has compromised on terror to the best of my knowledge!!!
This should be faught collectively as you said!!!
Strange are the ways of people!!!
TO BE IN THEIR CUSTODY for introgation purposes on HYD blasts,Gujarat Blasts and SAMJHTA EXPRESS
blaststs.In all likely hood all other states too may follow suit,starting with Tamilnadu,Karnataka,Kerala.AP,UP,MP,WB,ORISSA RAJASTAN,ASSAM etc!!!
May be this was what the congress spokes person MR.TIWARI had in mind when he talked about having a "Multi disciplinary force" to probe into the matter!!!
People are going to witness a grand show shortly!!!
Naturally MR.Nariman.They need to do a lot of work to ensure that the charges are backed up by substantial evidences which would hold water!!!
MR.KRISHU,Truth bursts out like a volcano at a time of its choice and none can contain the Lava that flows out!!!
The observation made by the CJI recently in this context on simiilar lines should be taken note of by all concerned in our judical process,friend!!!
MR.Nariman,well it is also a course and it goes on and on till it reaches its destination,whatever it is.Is it not???
It will not suffice and a lot of it need to be gathered to prove the case!!!
MR.Nariman,political violence should be contained first to achieve the other!!!
MR.Nariman,the communities are integral with the system of governance, in all societies and nations and stand out with their own identities,which cannot be eradicated as we all know!!!
MR.Nariman,the investigators have a way of their own to sieve all the possibilities before they zero in on one!!!
All INDIANS pray for one to dawn on the scene who inspires them and reforms the miserable conditions in which they live in!!!
These links are there in all religions as we see!!!
MR.Nariman,it is also a way of life.Is it not???
MR.Nariman,if it is a collective one,we do not call it as a "Mastermind".It could be a "conspriracy",prompted by a Mastermind!!!
MR.Nariman,in its course,it may encounter certain barriers,but none can stop its course!!!
If ever it happens,the consequences for the nation are unimaginable!!!
This defiance of the laws appears to be a sort of genetic problem!!!
All the divisions in the society and nation would automatically disappear and their energies channelised in building up a glorious nation!!!
This is an example of "living on borrowed strengths" with little efforts to make our nation self reliant.This means we should have our own plans,designs,manufacturing and assembling units in all areas.This does not however rule out the essential imports of materials, where needed!!!
This is to affirm our strenths lie in avoiding high dependency on others,but not otherwise!!!
MR.Nariman,when one speaks about "SOCIAL or ECONOMIC EQUALITY" it is only about capital distribution and nothing else.When we say "HAVES & HAVE NOTS" it relates again to Capital!!!
This reminds one of RAMAYANA times as potrayed!!!
Any or all changes for good should be welcomed,specially in the context of a change of team compositions in both countries in 2009!!!
They stand as claims and ATS is going round in search of the evidences to make a colourful garland later!!!
MR.Nariman,you did not deny.But your silence on the events prior to 1992 and emphasis on events after 1992,speaks for itself friend!!!
MR.Nariman,it is said that in a democracy the government means,it is "By the people,of the people and for the people".You are quite right.People would stop all the exploiters for political gains!!!
MR.Nariman,we have several forms of violence and it need not be essentially communal.How about sidelining other important lines,other than violence,which devours us all fully,if they are not contained at the earliest???
Friend,it may be more appropriate to reframe this question as "DO I MATTER"!!!
MR.Arun,efficiency is not a constant factor.All sorts of assumptions and presumptions are at work.The investigations are not yet completed for the judicial process to set in.The final say has to come.
Well,it is a long drawn process, as we all know!!!
It may melt down due to global warming soon!!!
These have become quite routine.Nothing special need be read into these incidents!!!
They are at a loss to understand as to what they are witnessing,much to their dismay!!!
MR.LAVRAJKUMAR,people will dispose of the mercy petitions by all the parties in no time.
But the time visits them once in five years,hoping all goes well till then!!!
TRUTH cannot be revealed the way one wants!!!
The Moon mission is successfully completed.Let all people celebrate the ocassion!!!
Are they expanding/advancing or shrinking???
The reason for the human travails appears to be linked to retardations and lack of co-ordination in thought,word and action.This is chiefly attributable to preservation and expansion of of "self interests" starting with an individual to a family,a group,a community,a society and nation and these are all aquired identities and affinities,where in lies the seeds of frictions and conflicts!!!
This is on the physical plane.Now this becomes the most intriguing question " Are humans shrinking or expanding" with their aspirations,ambitions,aptitudes,attitudes and approches in life???
MR.Nariman,It is my confirmed view that all political parties have been practicing the vote bank politics.Can you deny this fact???
As I said earlier,and I repeat now once again,it is always the Politics which cause more divisions and hatred in the society than by the religions.Politics go by the principle of "Devide and rule"!!!
This principle stands for ever any where and at all times friend.BTW!!!
MR.Nariman,the last sentense of my reply to you below makes the point clear!!!
-EVIDENCE to prove their charges finally in courts!!!
This way it may be a good service by helping them to establish the truth!!!
MR.Nariman,globalisation is not confined to mere economics and it touches every aspect of the lives of different communities as well,with all the inherent psychological bearings!!!
What is globalisation without people and their involvement in the respective societies friend???
She has the talent,tenacity,grace,poise and charm to occupy the most important seat,which may eventually turn out to be an asset in foreign policy matters!!!
Things keep changing every moment,just like our moods!!!
MR.Nariman,the only doubt that remains is who could stop it???
The simple answer is,"it is the people alone"!!!
MR.Nariman,how can you forget the fact that we had the "communal riots" in different parts ofthe country,"much before 1992 Rathyatra" and various commissions appointed,for which their reports are gathering dust in the Archives!!!
I agree fully that this madness has to be contained,if not possible to stop entirely!!!
Friend, we have gone through this mill several times,with all parties indulging in the name calling games.
It is most desirable atleast now, to forget them and forgive each other in pursuit of a full reconciliation to restore harmony!!!
MR.Nariman,this means,one can not say conclusively, that the global violence taking place in all countries is communal violence only.Is it not friend???
MR.Nariman,you came very near,short of explicitly telling "the same applies even to the so called communal parties as well, Uniformly"!!!BTW.
MR.Nariman, all start a picture, to make it a "super duper hit" at box office and about more than half (50%) of these continue to remain in the cans itself as incompleted ones.
We also know, about 40% of released films are flops, and the other 5% could be so,so.Finally only 5% of the pictures may make a grade of super hits and out of them one or two pictures alone become "super duper"hits.
Now it is upto one to draw the conclusions just going by the "initial grand publicity" given!!!
MR.Nariman,the reports indicate that it was a government decision but not as a permission from courts to aquit them.
Any way it rests with the government to withdraw the cases from the courts,but when this is done on the election even, will have a bearing
on the electoral prospects!!!
MR.Nariman,one may circumvent the laws of the land,but not the "laws of nature" and Newton''s third law happens to be one among them!!!
It seems there is no mechanism to link them to corresponding ruling prices from time to time,which touches all!!!
MR.Nariman,then why not dispose after all the mere "25 mercy petitions" on priority,for they do not run into lakhs??? Or do you think they will not be disposed at all during their life time???
JUST IT IS A MATTER OF DECISION,but not an investigation again afresh friend!!!
MR.Nariman,the very fact we have been discussing about violence even to day of 21st century A.D,in a more civilised world order,makes it quite clear that it can never be quelled permanently!!!
MR.Nariman,they did and all did condemn in a formal manner,but we find the difference in emphasis,which is forgotten entirely later!!!
This is just like sending a greeting card or making a formal condolence resolution!!!
All are practicing "double standards" without exception friend!!!
This is the question worrying every citizen of this country!!!
MR.Nariman,let us wait for the final call "It is curtains",and also hope it will not end with anti-climax!!!
MR.Nariman,the curtain has already been rised.People wish it should run with speed without any drag,to its climax!!!
This much could be seen on a daily basis in some parts or the other of the country.Common people are the worst hit.The police force is not excluded either, for an action taken or not not taken by them!!!
MR.Nariman,this does not answer my specific question posed and Your effort to circumvent it,is nothing but a diplomatic deflection of the issue friend!!!
Let us face the facts squarely!!!
MR.rebel,it is amusing to note that all problems have solutions and every solution leads to a fresh problem!!!
Who has been sentensed by the SC for his role in the terrorist attack on our parliament house!!!
The delay is going to be indefinite!!!
They say it is going to be a big flop at the box office!!!
When this opens up, the secrecy surrounding it and the curiosity to see what exactly it is vanishes, calming the minds resulting in peace!!!
MR.Nariman,all in the country said to punish them after "proving their guilt",to the best of my knowledge!!!
Sure,in the theatre of the absurd,one will not come across a "straight forward statement"
like the one above!!!
MR.rebel,one can make many notes on incidents either nationally or internationally.What have you to say for the ghastly incidents that took place or taking place,else where,where no communal polarisations simply do not exist???
Any comments on this!!!
MR.Nariman,you can''t just "clap with one hand".
All are responsible for this polarisation and the resultant sorry state of affairs!!!
MR.Nariman,the polarisation took place in 1947 itself and it is not of today''s making as we all know.Let us not kid ourselves and be honest to accept this historical fact!!!
MR.KRISHU,I am geatful to you for your blessings and prayers.BTW.
MR.Nariman,people are seeing where their apprehensions are leading them,forcing them to committ mistake after mistake.
If overconfidence caused the fall of NDA,Pride and prejudices may cause the down fall of UPA in 2009!!!
This is what exactly our enemies want.Let us not walk into the traps set up by them.The need of the hour is for all political parties to stay together,keeping aside their prides,prejudices and party interests,in the interests of the nation!!!
This is a part of our legal system!!!
MR.Nariman,that MR.OBAMA got elected to the highest office,braving the odds,proves a point.
Let us give credit to the man,where and when it is due ungrudgingly!!!
MR.rebel,it was a long time to have your coments friend.While what you said is good enough for future,the fact remains that he did electrify a nation and its people showed the "spark" in him,
undoubtedly!!!
MR.Nariman,no extraneous considerations should creep into the ATS investigations,as the case has to be proved in a court of law finally!!!
MR.Nariman,miss not the "farcical drama" being presented as a serial now,by the "political theatre of the absurd" to provide a lot of funfare,free of cost,to fool the public!!!
Looks like that it makes one spell bound,for there is no dull moment at all!!!
MR.Nariman,think it is a "misguided missile"!!!
...THE PEOPLE AND NATION on " caste,class,language and religion" basis relentlessly, to serve their self interests!!!
MR.JEEJABHAI,it is a very pertinent question for which the answer lies only with the people ultimately.But our systems do have their own grey areas, to which our law makers turn a blind eye and refuse even to review them!!!
Thanks for agreeing to it friend.BTW!!!
MR.Nariman,the facts are yet to be established.This is what we all hear from them relating to all other cases or they do maintain
dead silence whenever it is inconvienient to them to condemn!!!
Friend,all such sorts of things do happen,when people go to their slumber sleep,refusing to wake up due to lethargy!!!
MR.Nariman,the same line holds good for all.The laws should be applied uniformly but not selectively to suit the political ends!!!
MR.Nariman,the topic is about a leader of quality but not about the type of democracy!!!
The leader of quality has to emerge,but as you rightly mentioned it is futile to search for one!!!
MR.Nariman,it is good he has been arrested now.Friend it is not the time left out that counts,but the right action taken that matters!!!
This has been the position since 1950 onwards culminating in chinese agression in 1962.The rest was a part of history so far!!!
MR.Nariman,well this is the reason why most of the cases fail in courts and the culprits walk of freely with aquitals as we see!!!
MR.Nariman,what you said would be appreciated,if it was not an adhoc one and rests on compliance to due proceedures only!!!
As of now we have none of the former,but a lot of the later!!!
THE STRENGTH OF A LEADER is derived from fearlessness,which is born out of love only but not out of hate friend.
Hate is the fire that burns the one, who posesses it first.Your message itself is a proof of it.Any way thank you.BTW!!!
As a running comentary on 24X7 basis without any let up,by various people,even before any investigation is launched with no substance and valid content at their hand???
How the investigation proceeds later is any body''s guess.The best answer to any question from any quarters should be "No comments please and thank you"by all the concerned people assaigned for the job!!!
This should have been the usual routine answer administratively.If some one violates this norm,it could be for other reasons obviously!!!
Better it is left to UPA or for that matter all others, how to navigate themselves!!!
It is their business!!!
Friend even assuming it to be true,what is wrong with it???
They say "are not our family members" Indian citizens,eligible to contest in the elections and occupy high offices!!!
Their point too is relevant in our present set up!!!
Let us wish it god speed and all the success in
bringing forth the truth,in the interests of the nation!!!
This has been amply proved by the AP CM,who admitted even before a charge sheet was filed, that "the arrests made were a mistake",and released the people rewarding them with compensations,in connection with the HYDERABAD blasts!!!
MR.Nariman,glad you answered your own questions
posed else where,by quoting NEWTON''S Third law.BTW!!!
Sure the ARMY has its mechanisms to deal with such grave incidents to uphold its integrity and image!!!
The Indian team also bid him a fantastic farewell
by presenting him a 2-0 win in the test series aganist Australia the world champions!!!
All indians respectfully bid the same and wish all the best to him and his family!!!
It is to be seen whom it is going to cost much!!!
People wonder whether the CM is habituated to make off the cup statements too often!!!
This should act as a precedent for all others,not to take law into their own hands!!!
Wish the SC would order for a "hefty rise in fees" for all PILs,making it impossible for each and every one to file them as a matter of routine farce!!!
If so,the theories hitherto built up so far, suggesting linkages to "BJP & SANGHIS" fall to the ground!!!
People do not see any difference.They only know that hate begets hate and love begets love.They also know that where one begins the other ends.
Yet,they stand helpless and carried away by the undesirable emotions!!!
The earlier the people realise this truth,it would be better for them and the society!!!
He came out with this retort,when MR.KAMAT the minister,in presence of CM in a meeting said,that Bal Thackeray be arrested for trying to provide legal assistance to a terrorist!!!
Can his challenge be met or not should be seen!!!
MR.Nariman,the point has a circular motion!!!
We all know the elections are round the corner.To hold on to an office is better than not having one,for they are not sure of winning once again!!!
MR.Nariman,yet we proudly proclaim from roof tops that we are the most civilised people with highest patience.we like "self deception" as it seems!!!
MR.Nariman,I made my point very clear as to should be desirable from the investigating agencies,during the course of the investigations,down below friend.Needs no comments any further I suppose!!!
Fully agreed MR.Nariman!!!
MR.Nariman,well it is for the CPI-M to come out clean and confirm what it meant!!!
MR.NARIMAN,Because of certain statements from the investigative agencies themselves as given to media!!!
I fully agree that the final chargesheet would speak for itself!!!
The law will take its own course!!!
It seems the disconnectivity of the links is more pronounced now with things going tangential.
It would be interesting to watch how the puzzle is going to be resolved ultimately!!!
To stand aganist a trail in courts.Any way it is a long way yet to go!!!
It shows our institutions and working systems in a very poor light.Instead od getting shocked we should be ashamed by it!!!
More so in the cases of national concern,during the course of investigations,till a charge sheet is filed in a court of law,to avoid any confusions and attributions,in pursuit of natural justice!!!
Released all of them with compensation.Who can say that congress is not impartial???
There is none among the ones who inspires!!!
There none among the existing ones for sure!!!
Is it due to lack of any evidence or is it for any political reasons???
Be it state,national or international!!!
We all wish to see it in practice!!!
Because of the different democratic styles in governance!!!
May be in a different form and context officially!!!
When it demanded a thorough probe into these blasts now,while all others including the HINDUTVA forces demanded it the moment it surfaced.
Better CPI-M now educates all others about"HINDUTVA"!!!
When it demanded a thorough probe into these blasts now,while all others including the HINDUTVA forces demanded it the moment it surfaced.
Better CPI-M now educates all others about"HINDUTVA"!!!
Very true.The issue has to be finally judged by proofs/evidences, which are beyond doubt!!!
MR.Arun,the armed forces are known for their highly disciplined behaviour and conformance to the laws,which remains as a model for all others to follow.This image should not be altered!!!
If there are any other system failures due to bad or poor governance,they should be addressed earnestly by the people,by dumping the rotten apples in the dust bins as garbage and replace them by the best ones!!!
To guide the people on a righteous path.How true!!!
The same holds good even now and may be for ever!!!
There is not much to worry!!!
The principle is the same.Only the backgrounds may slightly vary!!!
MR.Nariman.it is quite unfortunate we had it now and I fully agree with you when you say it is to be nipped in the buds!!!
But there were several parallels and continue to be so else where,if only you recall friend!!!
The law should be allowed to take its own course without any interferences!!!
MR.Nariman,is terrorism centric to politics or religion???
People are getting accustomed to them and are helpless in the absence of any stringent action aganist the culprits in time!!!
Not to cross the constitutional lines and limitations!!!
He is going to leave his imprints as a pragmatic
leader,in a world full of challenges,which would confront him in the coming days.The top priority would be to pull out the economy from the depths!!!
MR.Nariman,their apprehensions about the outcome of LS polls, in the pesent context are understandable!!!
MR.Nariman,the most positive way is to ensure people forget these discriminations and the negative way is to constantly remind the people about them!!!
MR.Nariman,it is not the blacks alone,but the whole world is crowing so.Nothing wrong if the blacks taking pride or celebrate it,but it is a different matter when the world still clings on to this concept of discrimination!!!
MR.Nariman,shortly the heads are meeting to deliberate on this and evolve a new "global economic order".Let us await what "ism" comes out of it!!!
MR.Nariman,Yes it a big question and the quest to find an answer continues to go on and on!!!
MR.Nariman, course corrections are invitable and it is only a matter of time!!!
MR.Nariman,there is a saying about the hand that rocks the cradle.It is the hand that counts friend!!!
MR.HARIEF,An excellent messge posted.Fully appreciated for its objectivity.!!!
When one targets people or property it could be called as terror,but when one targets a politician it is called as murder,but not terror!!!
MR.Nariman,it is said that only the humans are endowed with "thinking power" among all the beings!!!
ATS has yet to establish whether it is a terror problem or an act of retaliation or a political game!!!
MR.Nariman,holding sufficient eveidence aganist some one does not automatically mean the other is involved!!!
As of now a clue points its fingure only towards HMS and nothing beyond!!!
For, no lead has connected them directly to this
incident!!!
MR.Nariman,agreed with the comparison. But whether it is a claim or a charge,they remain the same till they are proved!!!
MR.Nariman,the world is divided on so many important issues and surely the racial dicrimination is one.Any way thanks for saying it is "an issue" big or small,as it goes with the perceptions!!!
The topic relates to a future US policy but not an Indian policy friend!!!
The main constraint in finding solutions, will be the time factor, as the incumbacy of the office has a limited tenure!!!
MR.Nariman,do you mean to say that Cuba is living in isolation and remains untouched.It has a market,where all brands are available my friend!!!
MR.Nariman,to the best of my knowledge,none objected for one''s choice at any point of time,in this context!!!
This much is very clear,that it cannot regain its lost ground in the near future!!!
Be it on political,religious,social,cultural and economic considerations, which does not augur well,for the country and the people.It is very much essential to bridge these widening gulfs on top priority,by all concerned!!!
BJP by giving a green signal to ATS to go ahead and prove the case,seems to have scored a point,tentatively though, for the present!!!
Ofcourse yes and it should be the same with all cases,without exception!!!
MR.Nariman,"survival" is just an instinct.This has been so for very many centuries!!!
At best,one can only expect that may initiate certain measures,for the withdrawal of forces from IRAQ gradually!!!
MR.Nariman,my submission is, we should notindulge
in such discriminations,which only perpetuates the bias and hatred,either here or there.Such adjectives will lead to acrimonies but will not add any colours either to the individual or the society!!!
This should set aside the past!!!
MR.Nariman,is it necessary to organise any religious faith going by your own logic,just like a political party???
Friend,the ATS is at it.Let us have confidence in it!!!
MR.Nariman,every blast receives the national attention.The topic relates to how further attentions should be paid to.
None has said the innocent people should be punished.All said the culprits,whoever they are should be punished!!!
MR.Nariman,all wish a clean investigation by the ATS without any fears or favours!!!
MR.Nariman,glad you said the win is a trend setter.Now let us await for the trends to flow out!!!
Fully agreed friend.But unfornately the "political bugs" are hampering this process,at all places and at all times!!!
They have to choose one from devils only as they do not have a blue sea friend!!!
MR.Nariman,it can happen only when people do not spin.Till such time nothing could be done,except lamenting!!!
MR.Nariman,atleast CPI-M claims as one!!!
AFRO-AMERICAN PRESIDENT OR FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT???
This is quite unimaginable in a civilised world,in 21st century and highly deplorable.!!!
The media in all fairness, should IGNORE to take note of such cheap gimmics, and give publicity to them,unless they are submitted to the speakers of the respective houses,instead of giving them to their party presidents,which are "constitutionally invalid"!!!
If the media could take it as a responsibility,it would only be helping to build up a "healthy democracy",which would be highly appreciated by all people.!!!
As per the clues so far gathered.The same may
possibly be confirmed,after pursuing further clues to their logical end!!!
They are leading from the front to set an example!!!
MR.Nariman,by dissolution of LS,the caretaker GOVT,could get rid of coailition compulsions,while enjoying the perks.This is all the difference friend!!!
For showing "vision and maturity"!!!
MR.Nariman,we the people know a simple truth in the survival process,that both the capitalist and labourer of all hues, need capital.Capital without labour is as good as mere dust and the labour without capital(money) is worthless!!!
Hence in any "ism" we find these two as interdependent and also inseperable.Now the question is in what proportion these two assets should be blended for the productive purposes,for the good of people and society.
We have learnt or seen several systems or "isms" have evolved,and came into being,only to wither away over a period in time.Yet people seek still for a more vioble system,if not a perfect one!!!
It may not be out of place to mention here what Late.TENYSON has said that "old order changeth yielding place to new".Who knows in the "globalisation"times,a new global economic order might emerge!!!
This is the mindset of most INDIANS in general,
unfortunate though!!!
MR.Nariman,only alround honesty with a larger vision is only the best guaratee!!!
MR.Nariman,let me affirm that absolutely there is no confusion.Technological excellence has no meaning,if it is not catering to the market conditions.May be in a limited sense,some may limit it to the mere economics or profit and loss accounts.But in my opinion all these aspects are intertwained and inseperable!!!
MR.Nariman,no denying a fact.!!!
MR.Nariman,the word ''IF'' used by me relates to the trail in courts,and not attributable to the investigating agencies alone as such!!!
MR.Nariman,undoubtedly yes and the PM should honestly put in the papers without hesitation.As you say if they want to continue for the pleasures of the office let them.But no purpose would be served at this stage, by the HM alone resigning!!!
MR.Nariman,if this is the case with all politicians and political parties,what is there to grumble about???
How about the media which should be more objective,responsible and educative?How about the people who sway with high pitched slogans, with each word uttered by their masters whether it has sense or not???
How ever,I agree with you when you say that all this is a systemic failure.But it has got to be corrected and the earlier the better!!!
Sorry MR.Nariman,it is a collective accountability of the cabinet!!!
MR.Nariman,to put it in a simple single word it is just "BIAS"!!!
To eloborate it further,most of them are sponsered/rehabilitated people, TO CATER TO THE VESTED INYERESTS,but not true"REFORMISTS"!!!
MR.Nariman,you know that I always advocated "uniformity" in application of the laws with no double standards by all concerned.
We know pretty well, that it is not the case in practice for various reasons!!!
TRUE.But the assigned task has got to be fulfilled even aganist odds!!!
MR.Nariman,your suggestion may not remain as a suggestion in future,who knows!!!
YAH! It s a big "IF" friend!!!
MR.NARIMAN,as it appears,the comprehensive investigation into the matter may eventually throw up new scenerios,for, what floats on the surface could only be surf!!!
Any way prudence demands patience to see the final outcome!!!
MR.jeejabhai,unless we hunt and catch the culprits,all accusations shall remain either in the air or on paper!!!
MR.Nariman,may be the SANGHIS are polishing the "strange logic advanced by other parties",if one critically examines the wording of their statements!!!
MR.Nariman,the intelligent one can always discriminate and fix things in the jungle to find a way out ultimately!!!
Congress spokes person Shakeel Ahmed said that the LEFT is moving closer to BJP!!!
Left always says that it maintains equidistance from CONGRESS OR BJP,for they are two sides of the same coin,but yet prefers to hang on to the head (congress) than the tail(BJP).Equidistance in their opinion means which side of the fence they are!!!
Having elbowed/ditched the LEFT on the N-DEAL,
no wonder now the congress says there is not much of a difference between saffron and red colours!!!
MR.Nariman,I share your point of view.But all parties,politicians,media and people yet air their convienient perceptions,without exception spontaneously as if "THE TRUTH" has been revealed to them instantly!!!
MR.Nariman,I share your point of view.But all parties,politicians,media and people yet air their convienient perceptions,without exception spontaneously as if "THE TRUTH" has been revealed to them instantly!!!
That is why they are called challenges where one''s mettle is tested and judged!!!
MR.Nariman,as a simple example,we all know today,that even a milk man or a street vendor owns a mobile phone,in which he takes pleasure, to talk to people globally!!!
MR.Nariman,having a policy is better than not having any policy.Don''t you agree???
We know several systems and policies have been experimented,and each has its own merits and demerits,with none satisfying all.
The quest for one perfect system continues on and on,for there is room for improvement at all times!!!
MR.Nariman,how do you react when some one intereferes with your way of life???
It seems her judicial custody has been extended by four days to facilitate the NARCOTIC TEST.!!!
It is excellent fast work.It is reported that ATS recovered sophisticated fire arms and ammunition from the detained Lt.COL,MR.RAIKAR and some others!!!
MR.Nariman,it is the worst part,which is the reason why these right activists are often ridiculed.!!!
MR.Nariman,May be You are right.!!!
A member of the family met NALINI in prison a few months back and God alone knows what precisely transpired between them,beside them!!!
You are right friend.It is too late to act one way or the other due to political compulsions.
The only way left is to dissolve the LS and call for elections as it appears!!!
SO the announcement of a hefty reward has been made by some one!!!
Think that what exactly they have been thinking from the start for over about the last 25 years,"when to act"!!!
If they want progress and prosperity,lest posterity will not forgive them!!!
All know that the terrorists would be shifting their bases.It is for the centre to strengthen our intelligence bases to over come this lacune and overpower them by our security forces,before they could enter INDIA crossing the borders!!!
The task is no doubt a Herculean one and yet this is the only way,for this challenge has to be met whatever be the costs!!!
MR.Arun,as of now Sadhvi is only a suspect,while
Afzal Guru is a convicted terrorist awaiting his death sentnse handed down by the SUPREME COURT.
ALL know why the UPA GOVT did not implement the order so far.
He is dangerous to INDIA and its people,but surely he is a friend of some one as well!!!
These emotions will get reflected in their actions.To condition these emotional eruptions,the society made the laws to suit them and made them mandatory and binding on all uniformly!!!
The non uniformity in their application or when they are applied selectively,a feeling of discrimination and neglect creep amongst people.
This happens to be the root cause of all troubles and conflicts which no law could supress for long!!!
The solution lies only in "uniform application of the laws" to all people without discriminating them on any divisive lines of "RACE,RELIGION,CASTE OR CREED etc" without any fear or favour, to suit the "political and vested interests"!!!
After seeing a chain of serial blasts across the country in the recent times,people now understand "how much hard the centre is on terror"!!!
The ongoing MALEGAON BLASTS investigation is a classic example and proof,if at all proof is required in this regard!!!
They owe an explanation only to one person,but not to either the PM or people.Blasts are blasts.
No use of comparisons,as long as we do not have even the basic mechanism,to distinguish our citizens from others to start with!!!
But not otherwise!!!
A great way to protect the human rights.Shame on them!!!
In this process,the poor and ignorant people are always the victims unfortunately.The earlier the better,if this realisation dawns on the people at large!!!
MR.Nariman,even both peace and conflict(which are the effects) are caused too!!!
As for your question,it has been a never ending
human saga that keeps rolling on and on!!!
The most unfortunate fact of the matter is,we refuse to learn any lesson out of the past!!!
MR.Arun_ S_Dalvi,if these MPs/MLAs are unable to stand by their sworn oath under the constitution,there are only two options before the people.
One is to throw out these untrustworthy stocks or alternatively to scrap the constitution itself!!!
If it fails to act in time,the centre would be opening the flood gates for the terrorists to rule roost every where!!!
It is not yet cooked to serve!!!
Productive schemes instead of non-productive ones
will help us to bridge the gap between haves and havenots,leading to a stable society!!!
It is good she accepted now the KARMA philosophy!!!
MR.Nariman,as is said,necessity is the mother of invention.Learned economists are working over time to find a way out.
In this context the suggestions made by the RUSSIAN PM MR.PUTIN,might have also been taken into account for active consideration.!!!
Each class has its attendent problems and risks too friend.!!!
MR.Nariman,it is news indeed.Quite interesting at that.Let us await further details about its links/connections and H.Q from which it carries its operations with a style of command structure!!!
MR.KRISHU,VERY PERTINENT QUESTIONS WITH CLASSIC EXAMPLES AND SIMILIES.
But dear friend it will be far cry in the wilderness,where beasts are aplenty!!!
MR.NARIMAN,at the outset,this is to make clear NDA never had a brute majority in parliament sufficient enough to carry out any constitutional amendments.
Of course,I fully endorse your view,when you say that"we should not be selective in condemning
terror".BTW!!!
MR.Nariman,one can derive some solace atleast in dreams,otherwise life would not only be miserable but also horrible friend!!!
MR.Nariman,just do not believe any one.Better we go by the facts as they emerge.Leader of the opposition challenged the centre to produce proof.Let the centre produce it.There ends the matter!!!
Inorder to save other passengers from this madcap, MAHARASHTRA POLICE perforce had to kill this Man Rahul raj,who happened to be a BIHARI,of which fact the police at that stage did not even know!!!
"None shed any tears for the unfortunate victim,whom he killed",while people in responsible positions, have started shedding crocodile tears for this "murderer", and instigating the people, causing further violence, just for the heck of vote bank politics.
All Indians should be ashamed of these people!!!
Agreed MR.Nariman.The question is not that how long we endure this situation,but how soon we could checkmate this.!!!
Yah!It is a million dollar question whether we can or will,given our half hearted approches,with soft kidglove policies friend!!!
It is still worse MR.Nariman,that the other countries allow "HINDU TERROR OUTFITS" to function from their soils,to attack their own people in India!!!
Some thing quite unbelievable friend!!!
He wanted the centre to come forth with proof,that currently she had any connections with BJP.This unambiguous statement from him may brighten BJP''S poll prospects who knows!!!
Now the ball is in GOVT''S court!!!
It may take some time in fully exposing the entire network of conspirators, behind MALEGAON blasts,who indulged in this henious crime!!!
Friend,INDIA has been confronted with these problems of "TERROR/MILITANCY" for about the last three decades.
It seems it is on the rise,due to the soft policies or no policies of successive weak governments at the centre, specially in the last two decades almost.
Yet neither the people nor the Indian ploity has learnt any lessons.This is the most tragic part!!!
To make this happen,people should strengthen a single party at the centre,which commands more than two thirds majority in the house,and preferably in the states too!!!
People cannot expect a weak centre to take strong actions!!!
In such situations strong action should be taken as per the constitutional provisions without any hesitation what so ever!!!
This is a most pathetic situation in ASSAM today,with about 60 people killed and about 400 injured,in the serial bomb blasts.
All are speaking "Greek and Latin" with their own versions,contradicting each other,at the pitch of their voices, void of any sensible content.
One can only see panic alround!!!
People want the GOVT,to go full hog,with no holds barred,hunting for the culprits and bring them to justice.
Extraordinary situations call for extraordinary and effective actions expeditiously!!!
MR.Nariman,we agreed earlier,that "HINDUTVA IS A WAY OF LIFE,BUT NOT A RELIGION".This much even the SC has upheld as is known!!!
Well,may be the world is witnessing once again
the age old way of life of ours (humans)!!!
Friend,only opinions/perceptions are expressed and exchanged here,but none considers them to be as binding judgements.!!!
None is a "Born criminal/terrorist".These attitudes/tendencies are the additional luggage pieces picked up at each station,during the course of one''s life journey.!!!
35 KILLED & 65 INJURED as of now.They are reported to be high intensity blasts!!!
As usual,PM expressed concern,HM condemned and MoS said that
Assam govt,has been forewarned.ULFA''s hand suspected.Hands of others not ruled out!!!
The easiest way possibly could be,attribute these,to the suspected "new terror outfits" to start with and go about collecting the evidences later!!!
This is also another way of dealing.Better he starts from BIHAR where five bogies were burnt the other day!!!
This is supposed to be"no incitation,instigation,provocation and adding fuel to the fires etc".People should accept this as an "action & reaction" process,since these states are no GUJARAT!!!
Yet the centre remains as a mute spectator for the ongoings both in MAHARASHTRA AND BIHAR.
May be it is just a law and order problem of the states!!!
This is more disgraceful and disgusting indeed.
Just like we should not target a "COMMUNITY" for the sins of, one or few of its members,it would be quite unbecoming to pass such a sweeping remark aganist one of the most respected organs of the state.!!!
MR.Nariman,it seems the nation may be heading in
a reverse direction to the preindependent times!!!
MR.Nariman,Thanks for your convergence,specially with regard to the adoption of double standards,in governance,which is the root cause of all troubles.
Let us all wish, the people would unitedly rise as one, to pull back the NATION from the brink,for we know the petty politicians will not rise to the ocassion any way,which is the most unfortunate part!!!
MR.Nariman,as we know the economy comprises and equally interdependantal on various factors and hence the regulatory mechanisms have been devised by all.
we also know that it is just a scale adjustment every now and then!!!
Given the circumstances,the option rests with the
police.It is prudent to allow the law to take its own course without any political interferences!!!
It appears to be a typical coincidence,that the poll prospects of the two major national parties,are getting affected in the state of MAHARASHTRA,WITH TERROR RELATED INSTANCES!!!
It is unfair to blame only J&K!!!
This is a very serious matter which merits a clarification by the GOVERNMENT, in the interests of the nation, both on "CAG''S COMMENTS AND CONTENTS" inorder to put the record straight!!!
Only a few religious books and domastic goods were found.Even MAHARASHTRA CM is not certain about the involvement of (any) HINDU OUTFITS and awaits the final report from ATS.
If so, people wonder why to exaggerate this issue and indulge in cheap publicity gimmics about linkages, at this stage???
None should be spared if the guilt is proved!!!
This much all the people know!!!
The fact of the matter is INDIA is too large to be gripped in its clutches.!!!
One could call it as an eye opener,only when the probe is completed and the guilty are punished!!!
But what prompted him to affirm this confirmation???
No agenda could discriminate them except for political purposes!!!
Terrorism of all shades should be put down for good!!!
Difficult to list the failures as there are many!!!
This is the law of nature!!!
Principles are only the constant guiding factors!!!
MR.Nariman,I only quoted what the politicians often say,when they are charged on counts after investigations,because,our judicial dictum happens to be " none is guilty untill it is proved so and let thousands of criminals go scotfree,but no innocent one should be punished"!!!
Time is no constraint for the disposal of a case unfortunately!!!
Friend,don''t you agree that it means we have a basically flawed electoral syatem,from end to end???
MR.Nariman,we do have a law that permits "mercy petitions" in all such cases.Agree with you, that we have many grey areas in our legal system.
You know pretty well, when NDA proposed a judicial review/commission, to plug all such loop holes,the same was opposed by the opponents just for political reasons and this had its natural death!!!
Fully agree with you that there is a difference between a suspect and a criminal/terrorist.This is better left to the courts to decide.But none should interfere with the "investigative processes" till they are completed,giving twists and colours to the case.It is not enough to say "let the law take its own course" whenever it is convienient.People & media of all shades too should allow its natural course!!!
Hope you would also agree with this in all fairness.BTW!!!
MR.Nariman,when the government could freely distribute tax payers money of about RS. 75,000/= crores by way of "waival of agricultural loans" to the farmers,an estimated amount of RS.400 crores towards research and development is just peanuts!!!
Wonder why this basic question was not raised then friend!!!
But the INDO-JAPANESE security co-operation deal emphasises that their partnership would be
" an essential pillar for the future architecture of the region"!!!
This means it is a flexible one either to expand or contract as per the exegencies!!!
The constitution placed no restrictions on its citizens to move around in India and settle at a place of one''s choice,irrespective of one''s nativity!!!
This being the case,what is wrong if one writes an exam at a center allotted to the individual,in a different state though,which is not the candidates fault???Should this be a cause to incite,instigate the riots by the politicians???
Is it right for the concerned people of the states,equally to encourage violence as a counter
to the above??? How come two union ministers make
contrary statements regarding this violence???
There appears to be a method in this madness,pitting one community aganist the other or a region aganist the other,be it "in
orissa,or Karnataka or Maharashtra or Bihar or Assam or manipur or J&K etc"which points a fingure at the enemies who wants to destabilise our nation,which needs a detailed probe!!!
Away from it, let our politicians stop first, inciting the mobs immidietely for petty gains for them!!!
The state and central governments cannot remain as mute spectators in this sordid ongoings
and should act together sternly to put down these violent forces,whoever they are, without any hesitation,before it is too late!!!
In fact it may prove to be a great hurdle for him!!!
Indian people remain always passive in their attitudes.Nothing bothers them unless they are individually affected.
Ofcourse the result of these polls may be affected because of various other considerations!!!
To corrupt and sway the majority of voters from the tainted money only!!!
All others shy away from it,because the costs involved are highly prohibhitive and this field is getting murkier by the day,with none to control,irrespective of the gender!!!
All parties look for winnable candidates,God only knows what it means and mere literacy alone cannot win in the present set up!!!
This is due to lack of clarity in attitudes and approches in decision making processes as a result of the "coalition political compulsions"!!!
Over the years,they have grown up into a jungle
and one is unable to find a way out now.The situation has turned from bad to worse and people pray that a path be found before it becomes worst!!!
It is time for Indian polity to wake up to this reality and come together and stand as one,to withstand the onslaught of the vested interests,trying to Balkanise the country!!!
Just like day and night.This is one of the laws of nature!!!
We did it.A great achievement indeed!!!
Whom are they trying to cheat except themselves???
This is the probable fix for the government to initiate the right measures in this direction.!!!
We ought to multiply the strength of "true indians" in the GP by every second,to outnumber all these other BRANDS put together,for a right solution!!!
Till then the "Alleviation of poverty" in INDIA, is a far cry!!!
The best thing for the security agencies, is to ignore them and complete their job honestly!!!
None wants innocent civilians should get got in the cross fires,which will be a pathetic situation.It is also true, that these civilans too have a responsibility, not to shelter these destructive forces either intentionally or unintentionally,lest they would be inviting the trouble for themselves!!!
The situation would tend to be worse, with unsolicited foreign interventions!!!
Let us wish all success!!!
The opinions expressed otherwise are only distorted and motivated perceptions only which serve no purpose except kicking up some dust!!!
A fresh game of musical chairs commenced on the eve of impending LS polls!!!
This action of her''s is meant to project that she stands for development of UP!!!
Any takers???
The visit is subject to one''s own interpretations,till it is resolved!!!
This does not mean the rape is not a crime.We have enough laws. But As we know these laws are applicable only after a crime is committed,but not before.We have a dictum that all are innocent untill the guilt is established.This judicial process in our present set up is a long drawn affair.!!!
There is no way to prevent these stray crimes,because one cannot anticipate such an incident would take place at such and such place and the crime committed by so and so people at a particular time!!!
Time to celebrate.
People are very much interested to know.!!!
Then it is too bad.They may go down as well!!!
Unless INDIAN citizens are involved,lest it would be setting up a very bad precedent.Advising a friendly state is a different!!!
It is upto the UN to take note of any serious problem there and act upon!!!
But, When further steps flow out to sustain and strengthen this initiative alone, would lead INDIA for a big leap!!!
This is no instant coffee!!!
Friend,sure we know for certain,where they all need to go to argue these cases with an endless litigations!!!
Friend,birth is an accident.The rest is an aquired identity not by one''s own choice.Time moves forward,but not backward."Past has no future and future remains a distant dream.This moment alone is ours.Let us live it"!!!
MR.Nariman,(verdict or no verdict) who said......
"yet they are all honourable men"??? How true it is!!!
MR.Nariman,your caption is absolutely correct and quite explicit.BTW!!!
MR.Nariman,all things/models invariably follow a sine curve pattern as is known!!!
Why are the individual union ministers speaking
at cross purposes publicly on the ssubject in an irresponsible manner???
Why are the individual union ministers speaking
at cross purposes ptblicly on the ssubject in an irresponsible manner???
MR.Nariman,the fact of the matter is equally heading for a financial crisis as we see and the LEFT''S brakes failed to work as they are too old.
We need not pass any credit on this count!!!
This is most unfortunate and unwelcome step,which does not fall under their domain.Specially when they go to the extent of resigning as MPs having enjoyed the power all these years at the centre,and when the general elections are round the corner!!!
To serve and preserve their own self interests
unfortunately.
Any way in a materialistic world religions in their true spiritual sence, have little or no relevance!!!
This only goes to prove that Ramayana is no mythology as hither to projected!!!
Let the Indian polity wake up to the realities and stand united to face the terrorists of all hues!!!
Only yesterday,the NIC had it''s deliberations and resulutions.People expect a reconciliation between parties to work together but not to fall apart!!!
As reported today.It makes an interesting reading,for it has brought out some valuable facts,quite educative in nature,as the same are hither to not known to most people till now!!!
This lapse whether it is intentional or unintentional, touches upon the sensivities,emotions,and perceptions of people rightly or wrongly, causing heart burns and hence the conflicts!!!
when this fundamental principle is cast away
by the rulers, it will ultimately lead to chaos only!!!
May God bless saint ALPHONSA.
Wish many more would follow her foot prints.
This is what we call "leg pulling" with a standing principle of "it matters not even if I loose one,but the other should loose two"!!!
Politics is a strange stock market with all its ups and downs.Now that it is a crash/clash,both may have to ensure high liquidity to stay afloat!!!
This is the reality.Though this is not absolutely eradicated,it could be brought down with vigilant people and an effective policing mechanism in place,be it is a capital/city/town or village!!!
Till such time all religions stand to be exploited fully by the political parties one way or the other!!!
Friend,all the political parties are distributing
or promising to distribute the "FREEBIES" to all,to appear that they are "people friendly"!!!
This does not cost their purses!!!
The centre could only extend any needed help to it, even if it were to be the case of terrorists.This is a consistent stand taken by the UPA government!!!
So this question will not arise at all!!!
Searching for the substantial/circumstantial/corrobarative evidences which will have to stand the test of the laws in courts!!!
MR.Nariman,is it not a fact that the economic models of "socialism,marxism,communism,leninism,maoism" etc,have also failed and gone down into the graves???
The ??? is what economic model follows next??? Any idea friend!!!
Violence is a part of human nature and when it erupts, has no class interests and has only mass interests friend!!!
MR.Nariman,ours is the largest democracy,where people are supreme even as per our own constitution!!!
This shows our speed and committment for development,specially in our most important state!!!
MR.Nariman,even where they are found guilty,and sentenced,we have another law too which they can safely avail to escape from it!!!
This may spur them to shed their indifferent and passive mindsets!!!
Currently two more agitations have been started.One for the restoration of the aquired land back to the owners and the other demanding the retention of the NANO project!!!
ASIAN markets too are falling!!!
Even the common man is starved!!!
This is meant for mutual benifits!!!
In a global economy one can''t be insulated totally from the crisis.If some one says it is possible,it should be a joke!!!
They forget the fact that we all are already in space with a mission!!!
Not touched by any turbulances and conflicts of your mother planet.We all envy you dear!!!
MR.Nariman,fully agree with you on the point that
" greed is a common factor " for a capitalist and common man.
But disagree on the aspect mentioned by you that boom and depression are "common in a capitalistic oriented economy alone".!!!
When it is a global meet,hope the best of the solutions would emerge to contain the crisis!!!
Given the co-operation from all countries.In any case it would not come to naught!!!
Best of luck to both sides and all those who made it possible.
May God bless him.
The clash between "Good & Bad" is an unending process and at all times it is the wish of people that good should prevail over bad,irrespective of differing value systems!!!
This is what the experiences tells us.These communal elements would surface again and again,which could only be tamed through a hearty
"reconciliation" with trust as the core, between all groups!!!
MR.Nariman,if we are sure that this ends the communal strife,this step is most welcome!!!
Who has the audacity to call a day light encouunter in JAMIA nagar suggesting it could be a fake one!!!
It is very insulting,disgusting and highly deplorable when he said "Inspector M.C SHARMA was a martyr indeed,but no one knew whether he was killed by the terrorists or the POLICE themselves,in the Jamianagar encounter"!!!
(TOI DATED 7TH AT PAGE 13)
When one was not on the scene,how could one blabber like this?What is the government intends to do with such politicians???
In a "GLOBAL VILLAGE",meaning the world, in the modern high-tech age,any deal,more so the energy deal,that enhances our rapid developmental progress,is sure to be a watershed,undoubtedly!!!
This is no communalisation of politics and people have to believe it,"though the encounter did take place during day time,under the glare of both public and media",during which a police officer Late MR.MOHAN CHAND SHARMA,was also killed.
Is this not a "political interference" in the law taking its own course,and judicial processes, for vote bank politics???
The PM may do a lot of good,for the country and the people,by including the item of "political interference" as item NO ONE on the agenda of the ensuing NIC meeting slated for 13th October 2008, to evolve the "political
consensus" for desisting from POLITICAL COMMUNALISATION!!!
1.POLITICS.
2.RELIGIONS
3.MOB VIOLENCE.
4.A CRIME.
The first two are non punishable subjects,the last two are acts of a group or an individual, always deplorable,consemnable and punishable irrespective of their motivations!!!
When the thought of industrial development has finally dawned on them,it was too late in the day,as people have been habituated for all types of agitational approches,led by the L.F.Partners,all the while!!!
This may help in controlling the communal extremism hopefully!!!
This purpose could be for medical,on duty,to have fun or to committ a crime!!!
While all citizens normally would be on alert,when they have to go,the government simply cannot shirk its responsibility of frequent patrolling during the nights to apprehend the people with suspicious movements!!!
First to be blamed is the the WB government for having failed in controlling the mob violence from day one.
The next comes MAMATA with her brigade of goons and all the hidden hands behind.
The third comes the centre who has no clearcut understanding and a firm policy on the issue of development.
Last but not the least,the people of WB who failed to raise their voice aganist the agitators,for obstucting the developmental processes!!!
Let us not give a chance to the world henceforth,to point a fingure at us on the same count,by dealing with them with kid gloves!!!
We have scores of group leaders to serve their own interests,but no single "national leader" worth the name,to serve the interests of the people and nation,with absolute devotion and committment!!!
If some one thinks that our age old laws are enough to deal with this problem,May God bless them and the people!!!
Even an ordinary citizen knows this and people
don''t need leaders to proclaim this.What they are interested to know is how does the government
would like to tackle this menace and put an end to it!!!
If not possible what is the alternative? where do we want them to live safely???
Considering the huge energy requirements for development,with corresponding large investments for business and employment over a period of about 30 years,down the line,surely this is a mutually benificial deal!!!
The deal is for the mutual benifits too!
The state police is responsible to maintain LAW & ORDER problems!!!
The ways and means to fight TERROR since it is beyond our human inttelect!!!
To provide this basic legal assistance,from start to finish,which is any way not available to "the victims and their berieved families,in hundreds and thousands",in these deadly "Terrorist attacks"!!!
There is also some thing called as an "abettment" in the very legal system,which is equally punishable!!!
There should be a clarity when people talk about them loosely!!!
The former goes with a common place of residence and the later with a common faith!!!
In all this,what is the place of political violence,which is the root cause of turbulence in the society???
The same apprehension seems to haunt the minds of
his friends and foes alike!!!
It appears a responsible union minister has made some statements to this effect,who also said that WB Government should take the responsibility!!!
Fine.But people wonder whether it was the decision of the union cabinet,voiced through this minister. He alone could clarify!!!
It is for the courts to decide, and provide legal assistance if needed,keeping the nature of the crime and motivations in mind,but not by individuals!!!
Let it not be forgotten,when our constitution was framed and laws there of enacted,none has envisaged the "acts of terror and terrorists" would come into existance.
This is all the difference!!!
People wonder how could a responsible union minister could make such a statement in the first place and whether it was the cabinet''s decision,which had the sanction of the centre to get it voiced in this fashion???
No country runs on in this fashion!!!
Sriend,People of GUJARAT gave their verdict on MR.Banarjee''s report,much earlier than that of MR.Nanavati''s report,which only reinforces the people''s judgement!!!
FRIEND,This is just like telling,had the people from all faiths wished and willed,they could have easily averted the furies of the nature and saved all the victims affected by them!!!
The agonies and anguish of all such affected people are quite understandable and shared fully.But what is to be understood is TERROR in all forms, has no dictinctions and boundaries!!!
What all that could be done is only to contain and confine it!!!
Friend,people are too tired by now to hear the rethoric "condemnations,condolences,compensations
usual mudslingings of political parties and stereotyped reporting styles of the media" after each and every tragic incident,with no tangible efforts and results to combat the terror menace.
It is the most unfortunate part!!!
Much to its diamay,no single system has ever succeeded in satisfying it so far!!!
This is the reality which INDIA is also fully aware of!!!
Condemnations will only add to bitterness and hatred,while Conciliations will usher in peace and harmony.
The majority would follow the route of the former and a few would prefer the route of the later.
SANITY IS ALWAYS A MINORITY!!!
The last hurdle has been over come and in all likely hood it would be signed on 2/3 october,during the visit of MS.RICE AT DELHI!!!
SO FAR SO GOOD!!!
We have several other most important issues that call for immidiete attention like development,education,health,housing and welfare
of the people.
Let us not forget the fact that even after about sixty years of our independence,we are not even able to provide even a single a glass of safe drinking water to millions and millions of people!!!
His lucid detailed statement made at BHUBANESWAR,is both educative and clarificatory!!!
This should at rest any confusion on the subject,in all quarters and should help in the maintanance of communal harmony!!!
Fumes are quite dangerous causing a very huge damage,if not controlled in time!!!
Some learn by thier mistakes and some will not.!!!
It is good that they put a cap on endless litigations!!!
They are not interdependent!!!
They are all gathering dust.One more addition should not matter.Better this haggling chapter is closed once for all,so that the people can move forward!!!
The alternative to this is fraught with dangerous consequences.Both countries share this view surely!!!
They have delivered it,in the last gujarat elections,much before the findings of NANVATI commission''s report.No comments are needed any further!!!
While the same have been and are being fully beamed on all TV channels in other countries for public knowledge???
This will eliminate the misperceptions if any among the people,which naturally brings down the violence!!!
When RAHUL says we need a tough law,as POTA is a failed law, and other reponsible members of UPA GOVT,proclaiming from roof tops that the existing laws are enouh to deal with terrorism,sure they all should be knowing what they are speaking!!!
This leads one to pose a question,genuinely so,whether the government has any clear concept,conviction and a consistent policy,in place of all this unwarranted confusion???
AGREED.It is the most unfortunate part of it!!!
FRIEND, the violence in any form is highly condemnable and abhored.
we all know that as far as Kandhmal is concerned,it has been a tale of two groups mostly of the same tribe/village(s) fighting each other,off and on!!!
Now coming to Karnataka,any one or group could have done it, shouting slogans meant to defame others.
On a cool thinking,one could visualise that no party/parivar could have acted in this manner,when elections are round the corner,except by their opponents in all probability.
Any way,let us all await for the truth to come out from the judicial commissions appointed!!!
ALL have seen the scenes where goons indulged in vandalism when churches were attacked and condemned it,including the governments there who ordered for judicial enquiries!!!
But as is widely known,there is the "Beholder''s eye",which clearly establishes the fact,that what is seen,need not be true,but is only an attribution coupled with imagination of the viewer!!!
As of now we only have an allegation and a denial.As is known Kandhmal stands on a different footing.
Let us all hope for the truth to emerge through the judicial commissions!!!
Majority of the people in the country,more so in
west Bengal are aganist such counter productive agitations arising from any quarter.Let the political parties compete in developmental and welfare activities,in a constructive manner!!!
All attacks are highly condemnable,be it aganist an individual,a minority or a majority.Immediete action to follow to book the culprits on the spot.There are no two opinions on this.
But in most of the cases specially where groups are involved,the hidden hand would not surface,making it difficult for the police and prosecution,to prove the charges in a court of law,as is generally seen!!!
This is the main area to strengthen!!!
They know and surely are prepared to accept these "proffesional hazards" if any,since our constitution assures equal oppurtunities for all,
with no discrimination!!!
Besides we have laws to take care of any offences committed as well!!!
All investors consider these coming from him in the wake of the murder of a CEO as an incitement to violence and murder.
No wonder,if they conclude that INDIA is not a safe destination for investment!!!
Knowing our judicial process, the litigation would continue till then!!!
Now people of West bengal can forget about any industrial development in their state!!!
If the same trends are allowed to continue in other states,INDIA as a nation can also forget about the same!!!
If we have clean politics, it will eliminate the cause,so that peace and harmony would prevail alround.
But the ??? is will our politicians of all hues, who keep their "self interests above all" ever allow this new dawn to come in!!!
Several countries have progressed despite such hurdles.It all depends on how we define and distinguish the communities!!!
Friend,now that Karnataka government has ordered for a judicial enquiry into the whole matter,since both VHP & BRD denied about their involvement in the church attacks,we would be knowing the facts shortly as to who has timed it and why???
It all depends on MR.ZARDARI and the thrust he could give to move forward,with so many power centers around him!!!
It would do well for the police personnel both at centre and states,or for that matter any one in responsible positions,TO HOLD BACK FROM expressing their opinions,without any conclusive facts!!!
This is the minimum expected of them to avoid unwarranted confusions to creep in!!!
The last minute change of venue of the IFTAR party to be hosted by the speaker,has been shifted to the PM''S house due to security fears was itself a pointer in this direction!!!
People of Karnataka are generally considered to be a suave,well mannered and peaceful lot,away from a few stray incidents like what happened there recently.
Now that a judicial enquiry has been ordered, to bring out the facts into these incidents and police have been given full powers to arrest whoever indulges in any vandalism under the goonda act on the spot,let us hope that normalcy returns fast there!!!
People want the truth and nothing but the truth to emerge from this judicial enquiry!!!
Has this got to do any thing with the recent hacking attempts as reported???
Now that it is almost curtains for them at Singur,TATAS will have to zero in on one shortly!!!
But the sum and substance is poor governance!!!
It is reported that legal cells are being formed to help the suspected terrorists,taken into custody,who are considered by them as innocent!!!
Let us wish we may delve into the outer reaches of space exploration,in the near future!!!
Let WB government show its guts to show these people enough is enough!!!
Now it might be paying the price.
This is a convienient route for all governments to escape from accountability!!!
If so,is there a hidden hand to cash in,on their opposition to forced/induced conversions,using their name?
Is it coincidental that there has been a spurt of simultaneous activity in "infiltrations,serial blasts and communal violence" in the country or is there a different pattern,which is yet to see the light???
It is time for all political parties rise to the ocassion as one to meet this menace squarely!!!
It could only be a temporary set back!!!
Any way both the parties have the combination of
experience and youth in the reverse order!!!
If it were to be so,they should answer first,who killed the police personnel including an inspector,by opening fire at them,from the building during the encounter???
Irresponsible statements are quite unwarranted!!!
IF THE GOVERNMENT FAILS TO ACT IN TIME,others would naturally take advantage of the situation.
Government should set an example by its conformance to the enshrined laws for people to follow!!!
There need not be any doubts on this!!!
Did the suicide bomber mistook the MARRIOTT hotel which happened to be in a high security RED ZONE", as the National assembly???
If not why to target a hotel owned by one
MR.Sadruddin Hashwani? Who was this mysterious driver,who got of from his vehicle at the security gate and shouted to every one around to flee "within three minutes"?
How come the local media reports said that the blast was "caused by 1000 Kg of explosives"
packed in a truck that was driven upto the front gate of the hotel and detonated? Is it just a wild guess or do they have any prior information of the attack? If the answer is yes,then this contradicts the statement of the interior minister?
How is it that none has claimed the responsibility so far, for this dastardly attack???
Let us hope that Pak investigators would come up with the right answers shortly!!!
1.The existing laws are enough to deal with.Our existing laws are much more stronger than those in some of the advanced countries.
2.NO Fresh laws are needed.
3.strengthen the security and police agencies with additional man power and modern equipment for deployment.
These should alley the fears of the public, if any!!!
This makes it as the main issue in next elections
leading the other issues!!!
Yesterday,people had a ray of hope,after PM''s statements in the Governor''s conference,was shortlived,with the union cabinet''s decisions today!!!
Any more expectations???
Even then are you quite sure???
As usual the matter ends up after a few noises and condolences!!!
Friend,why not blame the "INVESTORS" too,who rush in to have a cut out of those easy profits,in the shortest time,out of their"GREED"!!!
Is it an offshoot of some other radical offsuit like any other organised indtitution?
Any way it is good, the K''government did order an investigation into the whole affair!!!
PM stated that "our government has no fixed,inflexible or ideological view" in this regard.This connotes utter confusion and lack of clarity,how to go about combatting TERROR.
This where the problem lies,for developing
"Soft under bellies"!!!
Now it is floating "ideas", that it intends to bring in the same,if not a better one and other laws too,if needed.What a great transformation!!!
This would politically help it to cross over the remaining period of their tenure,with no tangible effective steps and results!!!
At best these additions would be ornamental only!!!
The reasons for this sordid state of affairs are obvious!!!
The agony and anguish are shared.But how many times do our government wants us to offer condolances and condemnations,as though these are going to put down the terror and terrorists,with no strategy or action from its side!!!
AGANIST TERROR AND TERRORISTS,whenever they kill innocent people??? why not even a word of condemnation comes from them???
This attitude of theirs is indeed baffling!!!
You are perfectly right sir.
It is childish to think about enacting state,district and panchayat " Anti-terror " laws.This makes a mockery of the constitution!!!
However a bad precedent has been set up by allowing some states in this regard.Hense the cry from the other states.
It is basically wrong to treat the "global terrorism" as a mere law and order problem of the states.
It is fundamentally a problem to be dealt by the centre,and also to take action on erring states in not complying with the laws enacted and directions given by the centre from time to time!!!
What is lacking is a will to effectively implement them!!!
This moment is of its choice.
HE has to cross several hurdles as he moves on further with his projects!!!
When this is a "global" problem!!!
Deviations if any might have stemmed from this concern.
Taliban was ruling the roost in Afganistan prior to the onslaught was lanched by USA & ITS ALLIES.
How could they vanish into the thin air overnight???
If an answer for this question was found,this riddle could be solved!!!
If this is the situation after six decades of reservations,in all other institutions,it only speaks about our wayward policies and programmes.These people continue to remain where they were,which is most unfortunate.
This means reservations are nothing but about vote bank politics.!!!
You are absolutely right.
The cause is the ongoing conflict of interests,for both communities are involved in it.Incidentally the Elections are round the corner.As you meant,this is a matter of concern.
In these circumstances,"RESTRIANT" alround should be the watch word.
May be we have to wait for another week or so to decide on the report of the committee appointed.
US is confident that it would go through,well before end of September and if possible before 25th instant,on which date the suggested/scheduled meeting of US PRESIDENT and Indian PM.
He has all the reasons not to!!!
The end result is to be seen with all the twists,
and turns!!!
This means several things to several people!!!
It only indicates that the culprit who ever it is,is highly professional not to leave even a single clue behind!!!
This experiment is only a simulation model.
Who all would come under this catogery should be very clearly defined.This is very much necessary,for we hear frequently,that even the "convicts" are being treated as VIPs in the prisons!!!
It is a matter between W.B.Government and TATAS,but not between TATAS and politicians and their sponsored agitations.
In an ongoing drama,none knows which characters would enter or exit when.
It is quite uncharitable to call it so.
One wonders about the lack of any clarity in governmental policies with regard to developmental projects!!!
But one can safely presume it would be taken to its logical end by the US congress.
This puts INDIA on a different path for progress.
As of now it is clear that for all practical purposes,the work may not be resumed there!!!
However much we wish,doubt whether TATA would be taken in.As it appears he might decide to wind up the show there,being a prudent industrialist!!!
This is the reason for our contempt to work within the time frames to achieve the results.We always believe in cost over runs,which are quite detrimental to "DEVELOPMENT".
This is a welcome feature.The less number of laws we have,make us to be more productive and effective!!!
The fountain heads of internal violence are our parliament and legislatures.It is most disgusting and shameful,the way most of our elected representatives behave there,setting up an anarchic atmosphere.Natually people would like to follow in their foot steps!!!
All such illusions vanish when the light is on!!!
As such the apprehensions if any,in this context,could be erased from the minds of the people.
Till such time none need to have any fears!!!
Let us not forget the fact,that there are several other powers too in NSG!!!
One should be surprised if the situation changes for good.
We hope the last step would be crossed by this month end or so without much difficulty.
All our best wishes to him.
It is a good augury for INDIA,in its march towards peace and progress.
The journey towards this end has begun recently.
His election as president is yet another step in that direction.
It is time to close the ranks and to rejoice and celebrate this unique event of this day.
This is the cause of all types of "isms"which are in conflict with each other, to come into being!!!
The deal itself is undergoing a jerky process.The only difference that has surfaced afresh is that both the parties can excercise their options to riggle out from the bondage,with high costs,mostly to the disadvantage for INDIA,which it could ill afford now or in future.
Any way the NSG & USA will have to clear this clean deal.Would it be or not is a great HAMLETIAN dilemma!!!
Politicians may afford this luxury,but not definitely the investors.
The investors will think a thousand times,since the credibility of the governments both in states and the centre,is at stake!!!
Leaving the politicians to sort out their problems.
One can devise strategies to meet the aftermath of all such tragedies.
Can any one in senses try to stop the influx when a national disaster of high magnitude took place in BIHAR?
None should be allowed to play this kind of cheap politics when lakhs and lakhs of people have veen very badly hit.
People can think of the deliverence of the promises next.
Let us all wish for alround normalacy to dawn.
Still the violence goes unabated in KANDHMAL.This aspect needs a close look and investigations,as to why the emotions of people have not subdued till now.
A CBI/judicial enquiry should be ordered into the whole matter, to find out what went wrong and where,inorder to bring the culprits to book.
This brooks no further delay.
Better we leave it till he assumes charge and come to grips with the over all policies alround.
Ths intention sounds good.This may be reviewed later for the good of their own national interests later,who knows.
These nationalist forces should prevail on others
to see reason and to desist from adopting any agitational approches,for there is nothing to gain or loose.
It would be interesting to watch how it develops further before 5th 0f this month.
But one could safely conclude,the chances of the indivisual staging a come back are remote.
What would be the outcome would be only known on or after 5th September.
Even then one could not be sure whether it is the final one.
They apprehend that TATA''S NANO would capture the world markets and put them in a spot.The politics associated with the project is only a mask on the face of it.
If it leads to an introspection with open mind and in a positive manner,it helps them and the country.Needless to mention that one has to adopt to the times discarding the old dogmas.
The truth should be thoroughly investigated and the truth has to be brought forth as to who is the master mind,to distrub our peace,tranquility and harmony.
This mastermind,whoever it is should be brought to justice,which should be an example for all future generations of this great country.
Seperation issue was not of any recent origin.The less we speak on this is better.
It may be premature to hazard a guess in which direction the change follows.
Who knows he may prove to be different from other politicians in this regard.Time will reveal how he realises this badly missing ideal and ushers in the reformation of the society!!!
It is always better to give a try for the decision taken in any context and have a review of it periodically.
Sorry friend,the state was not under army rule in the last 20years.Yes,the army personnel have been deployed ay times,at the behest of the civilian rule only.This is only to put the record straight.
You are very right sir.But to err is human,be it any one.The Army has to be called in,to take over the administration,when things do go out of control totally.No escape from it.
It is good not to have commercialisation.The same term could have been incorporated in the government allottment contemplated DURING 2005,or
in the subsequent cabinet decision,before the issue of the order by the government,and once again PDP was a party to this collective cabinet decision.
If this matter even later could have been discussed across the table and thrashed out,instead of the same PDP leaders withdrawing from the government,joining forces with others and leading the unwarranted protests,we should not be discussing this affair.
Sorry friend,a messy situation has been created intentionally or even otherwise.Even now better both the sides sit together and sort out the issue first,than allowing it to escalate further.
But let us all remember we all are INDIANS first and last.No government would allow an anarchic situation and an insult to the NATIONAL FLAG.
We only allowed ourselves to be hostages to our
"murky politics & indecisions".This is costing us dear.No further comments are needed,if we all learn a lesson from our own lapses.
If he could bring a real transformation in the society or politics or governance,he would become a "legend" for posterity to remember and cherish.
Or else he would be yet another wash out.
Each one wants to squeeze the other till the last moment to get a better deal.This is a game of musical chairs.
Earlier,after the onset of the leftist rule,in W.B,the industries migrated to other centers,due to regular strikes,bandhs and gheraos!This the position continued for about three decades.
Now the leftists are tasting their own pudding.
"AGITATORS CANNOT BE BUILDERS"
Neither the farmers nor the labourers pay any taxes,more so for INDIA''S industrial progress specifically.
DISTINCT ENTITIES/REGIONS, KNOWN AS "JAMMU,KASHMIR AND LADAKH".
They may regret their ignorance all the while and wish to correct it.
Friend,The peace process had its chance for about 75 days.A small piece of land transfer with in the state,which is purely civilian in nature, is different from the charges of secession/seperation and sedition,which amounts to "treason".
I happened to mention else where,the laws should be applied to all equally and uniformly.This may satisfy you better.
No country allows its citizens to hoist and carry the flags of another country,on its land and soil,infringing on its sovereignty.
Let us all as citizens of INDIA hold our heads high,but not down with shame.
No further industrial investments would flow to this state.This is for certain,whether TATAS move out or not with the NANO experience.
People wonder,how could her superior,who also faces the same charge along with another,conduct an and conclde a departmental enquiry enquiry.
It raises a basic question,whether,he has been vested with the powers as a competent authority to order the departmental enquiry? Even then,if he is also facing the same charge as alleged,how come he could head the enquiry and be a prosecutor/defence/judge simultaneously?
The woman says she is heading for the HC to get justice.The dirty lenin is going to be washed there.
That threatens the very social fabric of the nation and all out efforts need to be addressed, to resolve this problem with absolute clarity,which is badly missing.
It may snow ball into yet another major political problem,if not controlled in time.
Both are trying their best or else it would have not come to this stage.The final touches are being given to a new draft, to sail through in 4th september''s meeting.
Sure all concerned in this process know it better,that we all are coexisting in an interdependent world.
It is trying to address the latest problem(Amarnath land controvercy) and resolve it first,since there is nothing new cropping afresh
regarding Kashmir problem,as it has been there since independence and Its solution is a long drawn affair.
LET US ALL WISH SUCCESS to restore peace and harmony for the people in J&K state.
We see agitations or bandhs or protests all most daily in some part of the country or others.Politicians interfere in administration,which they ought not to,in the first place and it is a pity most officials are not able to stand up to face them squarely.
People wonder to whom the administration should report and be answerable.Can any party man/woman, summon the government officials and call for their explanations,pass orders and assaign tasks at the whims and fancies?
The classic recent example,not to speak of others happened,when a congress party functionary,who is also a very responsible MP summoned the DISTRICT MAGISTRATE,to the party''s meeting to pass on the instructions/orders,and he silently accepts.
When the distinction between a party and government disappears,all know what remains.
As observed by the SC bench recetly,while hearing a case that "even God cannot help this country" clearly establishes the fact to what depths we have fallen,despite calling ours is the largest democracy.
They feel if they are developed INDIA gets fully developed.some psycophant has said in the past,that X is INDIA and INDIA is X.This dictum is truthfully followed now at all levels.No further comments are needed.
There is an adage a stich in time saves nine.In this fast changing world none has the patience to wait endlessly,looking at the skies!!!
Heavens did not fall.The earth continued to move around.The universes did not crumble due to this late recognition.
However,the help from the Army could be made available in exceptional cases like " grave natural calamities".
The army should be given full freedom to act,inorder to bring the situation under control and to restore normalacy.
In only such a conducive atmosphere,any talks or negotiations with various groups would yield the tangible results.Any delay in this regard,costs heavily.
You are perfectly right sir.
Friend,there is no bar in forming N number of parties,be at the state level or central level.How ever the EC is vested with certain powers,to recognise a party as national or not,depending on the fixed % of votes polled norm.It was interesting to note that once the communist parties were derecognised as national parties,for their failure in not polling the requisite % of votes.
We need a constitutional amendment to confine the regional parties to the states only and disallowing them to contest the LS elections.
Agree fully sir.It is chiefly attributable to lack of professional ethics.
Leaders,be it from political or religious groups,who ever instigates or incites either to distrub peace and harmony in the society or call for the seperation/scession/sedition, should be arrested immidietely,unmindful of the fact how great one is or of the consequences.
"INTERESTS OF THE NATION ARE PARAMOUNT".
Our leaders taught the people about the law defyance but not obeyance.This did culminate in all ills,leading to degeneration and decay in the society.
Instead of having a rule,we have either a misrule or no rule in the country,unfortunate though.
To retrive the situation,we need a strong national leader with a will to act and act sternly if the situation calls for it,to solvage the greatest damage done already.
MR.Ratan Tata said to mean that the loss to W.B.is more than to them.How true!
MR.jeejabhai,it is always the soul that decides what it wants but not the perishable body.The question is whether a city as such has a soul or not?.
If it means, it is a single soul comprising of all the living souls in the city,which is not the case.
Sure the majority of them do not want the pubs and their live music and want to sleep in peace.It should be respected,ours being a democracy.
MR.jeejabhai,Your agony and anguish are equally shared with due sympathies to all the bereived families.We both view the same object and so are others.
Oppurtunities rarely knock the doors.when it did,we failed to take advantage of it to resolve this issue once for all.Now we may have to wait for one,since things changed ever since we missed it earlier.Trust this clarifies.BTW.
A nod from NSG in the next two days may not be forth coming,as these members feel that NSG would be setting up an undesirable precedent.
One has to wait for next round of its meeting by this month end to know the final outcome.
They should not waste their time in trying to build up oppurtunistic "fronts" with unscrupulous elements.
This is no way to work for the good and welfare of the poor and downtrodden people.
They should rely on its own ideology,than indulging in oppurtunistic politics.They should not wasre their time and energies in trying up to build up some fron or the other,with all unscrupulous elements.
This is no way of fighting for justice and welfare of the poor and downtrodden people.
It is futile to indulge in conjectures,under the circumstances.
Now the question is how to bring back J&K together,to restore its glorious culture?
One can have a strategic relationship,without a N-DEAL.
The others would manage to get the waiver at NSG,
viewed in the context of mutual interests.
With all the twists,turns and colours added to it.
Not worth commenting any further.
They acted with promptness in rising to the occassions.
It is only a matter of time.
a celebrity writer.She continued it saying India wants freedom from Kashmiris.
Yet no action from government aganist all such elements!
The central government was busy finalising other deals and had little or no time to give a thought to this problem.Time and tide waits for none.It has its own course.
Why shy away from calling a spade a spade?.with partisan and passive attitudes no government could ensure the rule of the laws.
This is no way to maintain the integrity of the country.This may be a way to retain power at all costs.
J&K HAS BEEN AN INTEGRAL PART OF iNDIA,EVEN LEGALLY.None can dispute this at any point of time.
This was put in a muddle intentionally or unintentionally,may be in all good faith.
The Less,we(people}speak about it is better.
It remained only as a mute spectator from day one
and followed the saying that "time alone would solve" the problem.May be this may ultimately prove to be correct,for none has precisely defined TIME so far.
Let us all hope this time it sticks and strengthens democracy.
Hope this will have an impact on the problem solvers.
What is the use of repeated sermons to drive them out? They are just out own shadows!
Friend,as you rightly mentioned,all the three parts of J&K under the article refered by you, have the same rights and resposibilities.
The need of the hour is to have wisdom to sit together by all concerned and find a solution to this situation.
He guided the destnies of Pakistan in the most troubled times.This has been a fact,not withstanding the INDO-PAK relations?
Do our Indian muslims consider this as fair?
India had "three Muslim presidents" and none was treated in this manner.
My appeal to all, and muslims in particular to have an introspection and be inclusive part of the INDIAN main stream in all activities.Let us prove we are Indians first and any thing next.
"JAIHIND"
This indicates a step forward in its development
and progress.
We badly need a review of elctoral laws,making it incumbent that a winning candidate,need to cross the 50% mark of the votes polled,if necessary by introducing the subsequent preferential voting system, to his first preference.
Alternatively, we should have a proportional representation system,wherein, the elections are fought on the strength of their ideologies and manifestos,and the parties fill in their "prorata quotas" with candidates of their choice.
No post poll arrangements to cobble up a majority and no defections of any kind should be allowed and the member(s) should be expelled atleast for two terms.
This is essential for a healthy growth of democracy.
If it is that simple,it could have been solved when Late madam BHUTTO was the PM, twice in that country.
Let us not make fun of the gravity of the issues and situations.
The issue of a small piece of land allotted by the state government,it assumed first the colours of regional,then communal and now internaional.
The government can no longer afford to be a mute spectator in this farcical drama and has to act first and fast,by sealing the borders including the LOC,and ensure that no blockades of it''s rail and national highways,in J&K,take place.
The government could also refer the matter for judiciary simultaniously and its judgement should be binding on all parties.
No more time should be wasted with dilly dallying in the matter.
How is government going to deal with such elements?
One has to wait for a clear picture to emerge,after a change.
May be what needs is to tie up the loose ends.
This may have to be looked into from different angles,in arriving at a solution.
HE WANTED HIM TO LOOK INTO THIS PROBLEM.Let us all hope a tangible solution would emerge.
It is purely an administrative problem to be sorted out,and it would be unfair to add colours to it.
People of J&K need to treat this piligrimage as a "tourist center",which would benifit them alone,since no piligrim would like to stay away from the home and settle some where,specially in the inhospitable regions.If this aspect is made clear to the people,sure they would understand it.
Things should be seen in the proper perspective and people should in all fairness, leave it to the government to come out with an unbiased administrative solution,purely on the merits,for their own good.
When the desion is made, the government should stick to it,unlike the other decisions it made hitherto.
We have seen that all things are possible in the realm of politics friend.Politics as such is an absurd theatre.
This example should be a "motivating factor" for others,how to act fast and right,in assembling the various pieces of a zigsaw puzzle.
This is mainly attributable to self centerism and egoistic tendencies.
People are reaping it''s dangerous consequences even till date ever since.
Whether they would succeed or not depends on several factors. It is a remote possibility,VIEWED FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES.
It is a long long way to go to reach itself to call it as a "mature democracy".
Even the pak president''s speech is loud and clear.It is an incitement/ encouragement to the seperatists here.
Nothing wrong in appealing friend.But depending on the gravity of the crime,the government should take an expeditious decision in the matter,to dispense the case,instead of giving a stock reply of there are others in the line.
This nothing but to appease a section,due to vote bank politics.
This has led to the protests from the people of JAMMU as a logical sequence,but not the other way round.
The government,having found itself in a bind,lost the direction,where by things in the state went out of control.Both these decisions taken were purely political in nature.
Now this is the time,when "the spiritual leaders of both communities sit together in a calm atmosphere, to evolve a reasonable formule,with all their wisdom,in the interests of the peace and communal harmony in the state",away from the dust and din of politics and politicians.
The need of the hour is to understand each other than to misunderstand.After a solution emerges from and out of these discussions,the government could step in to give effect to it.
The earlier this is done it is better.
God entertains no bargains.He has set the laws of the nature in motion,which does not require any constitutional amendments.
THEY HAPPENED TO BE THERE,AS THEY ARE INDIAN CITIZENS.
It would send wrong signals alround.
People are wondering,her next landing would be where!
They knew fully well that the outcome would only be a still born child.
Let the governments not forget the fact that the state of J&K has two more regions,namely JAMMU AND LADAKH,comprising of people,other than the KASHMIR valley too.
When we pamper only one ignoring the others, or taking them for granted for ever,the alienations do take place,however much it is detestable.
Why to find fault with the law enforcing agencies,when they act,with in the confines of the law?
ANY SENSATIONAL NEWS IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE MEDIA.
The church should co-operate,with its findings if any,for enabling to find the truth of the matter.
All TV news channels specially,have been visually showing these on goings there, round the clock.People are following them closely to draw their own conclusions.
When these are applied selectively,they give room for divisions of all sorts among the people.
This is what most of the people are wondering at.
Sir,you are not far off in your comparisons,but for the fact that one has to pay for the quality.
MR.RAJAYE_HIND,The psychopaths are mentally deranged persons,who act emotionally,without any objective.
The terrorists are highly motivated persons with an objective.
This is all the difference between the two.
FRIEND,None can esape the moment,when it strikes,even assuming all facilities,checks and balances are put in place.Can we?
Secularism as practiced is a convienient tool for oppurtunism.
The government metculously follows a que system,in the list of pending appeals with the government,after the final sentencements.
This case has to wait for its turn.
As long as the laws of the land permit it,one has to accept it.
This in effect nullifies any advantage to the employees otherwise accruable to each one of them.
It is advisible to link the pay hikes automatically atleast once in six months,commensurate with the rise in price indexes.
This will dispense with the practice of appointing these commissions once in 10 years.(Earlier it used to be five years) and the resultant wasteful expenditure,by the government.
This gives him confidence and courage,to scale the heights in life.
Any good and great work done cannot go unnoticed.
One cannot rise a super structure on weak foundations.
It simply exists.Its varied activities and experiences are only its manifestations.
Only then, it acts as a deterent for others.
A visual scene forms an ever lasting imprint,than to get it printed in some corner of the columns.
But the greatness lies in cherishing every moment in life.
NEITHER THE FAMILIES NOR THE GOVERNMENTS HERE ANY TIME TO CONCENTRATE ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF ATHLETES.
The government thinks by providing marginal facilities by way of budget allocations,their job is done.It is by sheer accident out of their own interest,a few individuals make their mark,by their hard work.
When one succeeds,all come forwrd to take take the credit.
If they are on caste and communal lines,they are great BONANZAS for them.
HE stood up to face it,unlike cowards as you mentioned,irrespective of the result.One can wait for the result.
With more than 200 countries participating,where as T20s are being played with a limited group of countries every year,with several championships,in which WC happened to be one.
This heavily loaded schedules for this game,every year,though thrilling,is infact chilling the spirit of the players.
1. Equal oppurtunities to all could be provided.However,the quantum and quality have a price.People could be motivated,but initiatives have to come from individuals,to move up and forward.
2.None stops the governments to act aganist such people.Only the governments need to be honest to implement the laws.
3& 4. They relate to personal religious faiths and choices,which are allowed under the laws.
This is evident from his calling the parliament session to meet today,which incidentally happened to be his birthday.
Now people are now waiting to see whether the centre acts firmly in dealing with the situation,before it goes out of control and assumes larger proportions,which are not desirable.
Let us not forget the fact that there are too many aspirants for this post.
As it is, nothing has been evolved and the all party delegation has been a big flop,seen in the context of the threats that followed their talks.
It has nothing to do with India''s secularism which is a principle enshrined in our constitution.No fears.
They may find it some where, at some point of time.
This is a price people have to pay for their indiscretions,in having elected such people as their representatives at the first instance.
FOR THE WELFARE OF THE PEOPLE AND INTERESTS OF THE NATION?
How is it, that there is no convergence on the basic principles and policies in that direction,instead of a convergence only to share the power for their self interests?If this is the type of convergence we have,it only encourages divisions in the society.
Let all parties realise this and atleast wake up now to work together for the good of the people,before it is too late.
But in the first instance, when the state cabinet, on applying its mind allotted about 40 hectacres of land to ASB,was it not a modality?
How could PDF being a partner of the government and a party to the cabinet decision,join the protestors aganist this "decision" in the Kashmir valley?Was this a modality?
Why should the government revoke its order with in three days of protests,in the Kashmir valley and that too under pressure? This could also be a modality.
The subsequent events that followed were all supposed to be modalities.
On which modality the people and government are going to finally zero in,will be quite interesting,under the given circumstances.
In the first place,how could they close them,without bringing the culprits to book,where ever they are? Is it not the job of the government to hunt for them with the help of INTERPOL?
Sounds absurd,but it is possible.
How it goes about it, is its business and is answerable not only to India,But also for the International community as well.
Needs to be seen how it is going to be accomplished.Wish they succeed.
The present situation is the culmination of both these orders,unfortunately.
In the meeting chaired by the PM,today,with an appeal to all to maintain peace,let us wish it all success in acomplishing this task.
MR.rebel,this is the first time you have equated
India(HINDUSTAN),satirically though,for the SC has not mentioned so in its observations made in a different context yesterday.
However,I agree with their observations,which reflects the majority opinion of the people.
No investor would like to see that his investments are locked up.
One is the surrogate mother,both the parents and ultimately the child.This is only a recent trend set in by the moneyed people to exploit the helplessness of poor women.
The prudent course would be to adopt an orphan child,where none of them go with a guilty feeling.
We have these mothers even otherwise,which is not in the public knowledge.In the former case a stigma is attached either with or without laws.This is all the difference.
Well,your suggestion could also be considered by the second SRC,as and when it is constituted and comes into existance.
It is just like attending to a crying baby.J&K has three children.No body is thinking of the forgotten third one.
The changes in demography follow a different pattern.Specially in case of piligrimages,it is the locals who get benifitted,but not the piligrims.It is an absurd and perverted logic.
NO need to mix up the religious faiths with governance.
When and where to pray or not goes with one''s own faith.
Quite true sir.
Away from the problem no permanent solution emerges.
Given the current stand points it is very much doubtful.
With toning up all the administrative agencies and ensure the participation of the people,by bringing in an alround awareness.
With the best of intentions and efficient administrations, at best it could only be minimised.
These terrorists just disolve themselves,as it happened else where,become dormant for a while,and start striking back whenever and where ever possible.
When we have been sleeping with it since long by our side,what is there to compromise?
USA says it is a "clean and conditional deal".India says,it should be a "clean and unconditional deal".
There lies the catch,and what comes out is to be seen.
Terrorists can pick up their enemies,place and time of their strikes at their choice and vanish.
Their''s is a fight on the ground,where as the people have to fight them either in the air or underground,which takes a little more time in aimimg at them.But it is not an impossible task.
With alround determination,dedication and discipline,people can and will root them out.It is only a matter of time.
It is still unclear,and being debated whether "internal security" is a state''s responsibility or that of the centre.
If the governments both at centre and states are so inapable of understanding it,better the HON''BLE President refers the matter, for the opinion of the Supreme court, at the earliest,without any further delay.
He might be mulling over the matter sitting in his cozy room.
It is welcome.But there should be a cordinating agency,to channelise the energies of the people.This agency is only the government.
This issue has four elements.A trauma, the science,morality and legality.A consensus has to be evolved first,by the government on this subject.
The cetre is looking at it,says the HM.
But it tried to ride on the two horses and lost its way in the jungle of politics.
Applying the same rule as mentioned hither to,that even terrorism, relates to a state subject of LAW & ORDER,central intervention may be unwarranted,and looks ridiculous,since the state has enough laws to control the violence.
These Changes are quite unpredictable.
Values in life are the ones which each individual
sets before one''s self and cherished,be it moral,spiritual,economical,political,official
social, or traditional.Earlier,a common interconnecting thread used to run through all these, known as "DHARMA" in Sanskrit or "DUTY" in English,though not a fully equivalent word.
As observed now,most people have little time to think of them,having lost themselves in a world, where only self interests matter.
You are right on dot.Terrorism affects all people,be it a majority or minority.People should wake up to this reality and move together as one,to ward of this evil,once for all.
But no government could absolutely avoid certain
unexpected natural calamities and the resultant losses.They could at best, have the risk/disaster management machinery put in place to some extent or large extent,depending upon the country''s economic status.
But in some exceptional cases,where the doctors are apprehensive about the birth of a healthy baby on medical grounds,better to leave the choice to the parents,as it is they and the new born,who have to bear the trauma life long.
Meaning the centre and states with regard to use of laws and creation of a new federal agency,to counter terror.
This much is evident going through his statements,as reported in THE HINDU dated 3rd August,at page 10.These type of comments coming from the union Home minister are least conducive to combat the terrorist activities.
"WE" the People expect unified actions in this direction,but not politics.
MR.rkchhavi,it is advisible to get this matter sorted out politically as quickly as possible to diffuse the situation.
KRISHU,This only shows how rotten our systems have become ineffective,from top to bottom,may be with a few exceptions here and there.
MR.Nariman,did I say it was UPA? I only mentioned about a political will coming from the government.Nothing less and nothing more.Needs no further comments.
Sure all would agree.
Specially when these terror squads,under diffrent names come from other countries with or without local collusions.
This proxy war aganist our country and people has been going on since a very long time,with no effective actions from ourside to counter them.
MR.Nariman,today the speaker of LS said that he is not quitting this post.He meant to convey that he holds a "non political constitutional office",and intends to continue his tenure.
He might be right with his said and unsaid intentions and their interpretations,he himself being a lawyer.
Now we need to cross two more as I mentioned in my post below.Congrats to the team that has worked relentlessly wish it all the best all through.
SOUNDS AS UNFORTUNATE AND NEEDS IMMEDIETE MEDICAL ATTENTION.
siraz,a highly appreciable post.Please keep it up.
MR.stopperbhai,so you agree that we have other terrorisms,beside Muslim terrorism.Unfortunately one breeds the other,however much distasteful it is.So what is the use of lamenting day in and day out,blaming each other?
We are optimists and hope only time will sort out all the problems.
When we could opt for a requisite action only God knows.What can''t be cured has to be endured.
This is one of the important points discussed by
PM &OPP.LEADER in a one to one latest meeting on internal security.
MR.Nariman,let us agree to disagree and leave this tangle to be sorted out by constitutional experts.Till such time this could remain as one of the grey areas.
MR.VIKAS,I hope you mean when you say research on this,it is an investigation.
True,the investigations should cover the leads from all angles,including the political links,as you mentioned.
It is an uphill task fraught with hazards.
Parliamentary elections(LS),Assembly elections at different periods,what ever be the reasons,Panchayat elections,Municipal elections,Rajya sabha elections,midterm elections,By elections etc.
Apart from the costs at the cost of the people,these elections divert the attention of the people from thinking any thing about the promises they made and their lapses there after.
So the people are ever prepared to have elections.It is their bread and butter.
MR.Nariman,you can guess it for yourself,what I would have said on all such arrangements.
MR.Nariman,the reponsibility might have forced him to threaten like that.But now he opted for it himself.Let us see.
It does not want to have a post poll alliance with UPA.It does not want BJP.It does not want Mayawati to be a prime minister.Yet it wants to have a poll adjustments with BSP.It says a third front is not possible now. So what are its options?Probably It wants others to support it to form the government,to keep communal BJP out of power.May be possible who knows.
It sees an oppurtunity there.
People mostly see dishonesty alround them.Now they will see the honesty for a change.
Due to commercialisation,to make heros out of zeros,too much of terroricm,militancy and violence are being dished out to the public.
Towards this end,Insted of showing respect and conformance to the laws,defiance of the laws is given more importance.The results are practically seen,in every walk of our lives.
MR.Nariman,despite the fact that the clues led the police to about 31 suspects earlier,in HYDERABAD,all of them have left the country,to find their safe heavens abroad.
(for details please refer to the D.C of today.)
MR.Nariman,if POTA comes in to the picture,only after a "criminal" is caught,why do we need POTA itself.
Your inference indicates that it is not applicable to the "suspects" relating to the crime.If this be so,the police can never apprehend any one to solve the case.
It is just like asking for a moon sir.
The last sentence is incomplete,unless you continue it with.."and we wake up only after 24 hours,after the event".
All know the terrorists are cowards who fight under the cover of darkness,but not face to face.We also know how to fight them,but we do not know of its timing.Movies are different and this is real life.
MR.Nariman,in the absence of the political will, coming from the government,the talent looses it''s direction.Even if it is outsourced,as suggested by you,the result would be the same.It makes little difference.
FRIEND,even in a federal structure,maintainance of security both "external and internal ultimately rests with the centre".
The states are vested with the powers to maintain law and order.These two aspects should not be mixed up.Evidently security is distinct and different from mere law & order.
It is good if the states co-operate,but states cannot resist the central interventions to maintain internal security,as demanded by the situations.This is all my submission.
It is but a necessity where people live with threat perceptions,and need to be protected by the rulers.The black sheep exist in all societies.
While there is nothing wrong inlearning good things from others,we should put in our improved version to counter.We have the talent for it but lack a political will and direction.This is the unfortunate part.
One feels sorry for him the way he is going to quit politics.
Even assuming it could be a reality.Restraint,a cool thinking and silent actions are very much needed in this type of adversity,to face it aquarely.
Time has run out for the government to act upon,having wasted about four and half years,with concerns about its own survival.
Is it? I didn''t name any specifically friend.
Let us forget about the speedy trials,as we are still debating under which law(s) the terrorists should be booked.
All sleep walkers get into the death traps one day or the other.
For the governments follow the devide and rule policy.
Let us all await for this new viable structure in the near future expeditiously.
A lot of spade work needs to be done silently and calmly to bring it to the center stage.None denies the need to have one.
Their simplicity is highly appreciated.
Friend,I do not want to devalue the meaning of the word NATIONALIST.
Indeed a sorry state of affairs.
POTA OR NO POTA,politicians would always try to settle their political scores one way or the other.
As you said,the highly motivated terrorists,may not care for their lives while spreading the terror.This is no reason to shy away from enacting a stringent law as a deterent,since the existing laws are not able to cater to the need of the hour,to protect yhe lives of the people and property.
Then what and who is stopping the implementation to perfection?Was there at any point of time,a state of perfection?
The simple answer is their quarrel is not with
VHP/RSS/BJP combine alone and it is aganist all Indians,for in their attacks all combines are affected.
The people would appreciate it,for effective steps would automatically follow to curb terror.
National interests are paramount.
When this was scrapped,the subsequent events have proved that the existing laws are inadequete,to deal with the terroist activities.
The stringent laws enacted and enforced in other countries,subsequent to the 9/11/2001 terrorist attacks specially in USA,where not even a single terrorist attack took place, reinforces their resolve to protect their people,at all costs.
If that be so, only chaos will prevail in all societies around the world,the consequences of which would be disastrous to the humanity.
The number of injured has gone uo from 23 to 30 now.The pattern of the blasts is similar to that of B''LORE serial blasts.A pattern is slowly but surely is emerging.Let us watch out.
Will they not influence INDIS''S international face? An attack is an attack only,whether it is on high or low,rich or poor.This has to be dealt with no discrimination.
This is possible only when an alround awareness how to go about it is brought about in the public minds.Other wise their participation could only be sporadic by accident.
From north to south and east to west.It a known fact that some or should we say all these groups have the patronage either directly or indirectly from one or the other political parties,barring a few possibly to serve their self/vested interests.
Unfortunately common and innocent people are the sufferers.They have yet to see a decisive action to put down this scourge with an iron hand to save the people.
Does this mean that LEFT is not nationalist?While it may appear to be above board,people wonder from which source(s) it gets funds to fight the elections at prohibhitive costs.Any comments on this?
We are yet to cross the next three stages with probable hickups during its passage.
This relates to an internal aggression by the forces inimical to our country and should be dealt with by the central government,as it is it''s responsibility, to maintain both the interbal and external security of the country.
With pre independent rules,proceedures and weapons,terrorism cannot be uprooted from our midst,when terrorists attack with modern and highly sophisticated weapons.
Central government cannot afford to be passive any more and should own the responsibility of maintaining the internal security in coordination with the states to root out this menace with an iron hand.
The need of the hour is to tone up the administration to take the effective steps like sealing the borders, deporting the illegal migrants and keeping a constant vigil,to freeze all suspected accounts in the banks etc.
This should be the minimum action expected by people to start with.
Any visionary leader has to reckon with the population growth while planning for the development of the requisite infrastructural facilities for improving the living standards of the people.
This aspect should not be the basis to explain away the failures.
If the decision is not to release them for the public to see,there goes a long tragic tale.
There is no reason to find fault with the party,when certain action is taken in conformance of its laws.
Unless this is done the prices continue to rise burdening the AAM ADMI,while lowering the growth rate.People does not want to be a witness for yet another INDIA shining example.
1.Gracefully resign from the post of the speaker and as an MP also.This will enhance his stature as a man of principles,both in the annals of parliament''s history and in public perception.
OR
2.Continue to preside as the speaker till the next elections at the behest and in the company of the disgraced UPA,for it fears to face the parliament once again to elect a new speaker for the remaining tenure of the parliament.
This brings down his image in the eyes of the public,though constitution permits his continuance.
People are interested to watch,which course he follows.
INDIA IS LOBBYING FOR SUPPORT IN ALL THE THREE BODIES.
Let us hope it would be through,well before the present US presidential term expires.
He is a better judge to decide on his own decisions and actions.
Non conformance to the provisions of the party''s constitution is considered to be indiscipline,indifference and impertinence.The disciplinary actions are taken accordingly,aganist members for flouting the articles,decisions and rules in any party.We do not call this as the result of frustation.
All parties have resorted and continue to resort to the expulsions of their members at some time or other.
The mettle of the leadership comes to the forefront in adversity,in convincing and carrying the people along,but not by going back on the promises made to the people.
You have a valid point there friend.The infant has to grow,inspite of the child''s faultering steps,in the foot prints of the elders,right or wrong.
The people are yet to see the light.
One has to catch up with the changing times.
It is a fact that it is declining and degenerating by the day.
On the other hand it is diminished despite the win of the trust vote.
Friend,I still wonder whether we made the systems or the systems moulded us.As long as we continue to live in or with the same set up,it matters little who is our neighbour,for we need to coexist.There is no denying the fact of what exists around us.
It is nice to share our thoughts one again with you in particular and all other friends.BTW.
Crisis management is not the dish of every body.It is an art by itself.It requires both vision and spade work to meet all such contingencies.
The reasons are quite obvious.
People are amused and astounded to see this farcical drama.
As long as it is transperent and majority of people are convinced that it is so.
Said and done,it may not be an issue for a majority people,for it is all greek and Latin for them.
If at all it interests some, they question back,how soon they are going to get the electric power out of it,for a comfortable living.
The pertinent question remains,how best the crises is managed,with in the confines of its constitution.
As he happened to preside over this debate.
It is this aspect on which the indian polity has been vertcally divided.The deal has international ramifications,while the price rise is an internal matter to be tackled.
Mostly he confined his speech to the issue on hand,for which the trust vote is being sought.
MR.KARAT,GS OF CPI-M,made it amply clear that it is left to MR.Somnath''s choice,though he happened a member of his own party.How does the courage on his part could come into the picture?
This is a non issue in the present context.
It is a self goal made by the UPA.It failed to take the main opposition into confidence in their blind hatred towards BJP/NDA from the begining and not addressing the concerns of the LEFT by playing the hide and seek game with them althrough.
The issues of inflation leading to high price rises and fall in the industrial growth etc have come in handy,to put the GOVT in a tight spot further.
In a scenario,where the principles and ideologies of all parties have gone with the winds and individual self interests are alone are counted.The nation and people are dismayed at the turn of events,leaving aside the very pertinent issue,the N-DEAL and its merits or demirits.This is just politics.The UPA has to blame itself for this mess.
The drama being enacted alround made INDIA a laughing stock in the eyes of the world unfortunately.
It treated the NDA constituents as untouchables and was overconfident of its abilities in convincing the left and carry along.No efforts were made in the direction of evolving a consensus since 2005.Finally when it went to IAEA
on 7th july 2008,despite the opposition from the LEFT,it''s subsequent withdrawal of support to the UPA GOVT,it landed itself, in an avoidable crisis,placing itself at the mercy of even single MPs to win the trust vote.
The result will be known on 22nd,which way finally the wind blows.People are aghaust at the turn of events by the hour each day,making a mockery of democracy, void of any etheics and morals in this power game.
IAEA is meeting on 1st August to decide on the further course.
But the fact of the matter is,people will have to endlessly wait for this great event to take place.
The governments have no time to spare to take the remidial steps,as they have been engrossed of their own survival.
UPA constituents have since long branded as communal and untouchable.The left and UPA joined forces only to keep BJP led NDA out of power.As such it is a far fetched proposition.
This has become a market place of all sorts of "Barter deals".
As long as the deal does not infringe on the sovereignty and independence,it should be taken to the logical end,in the national interest.
"POLITICAL POWER" to serve the self interests is the tentative binding force.It is just like shuffling a pack of cards where ideologies matters least.
But still about three and half to four days are ahead,before the crucial vote is taken,to hectically work on to succeed and it applies to both the camps with fluctuating fortunes.
Better to have discussions,as both the nations happened to be cordial friends.
Either it can make or break,not only the persons but also the governments.
People know fully well that neither the political morality and honesty have vanished in our polity long long ago.
But this raises a fubdamental question,whether a convicted person for life aganist a henious crime perpetuated,should continue to enjoy the other benifits as a citizen,including a "right to vote" under the constitutional provisions.
If so is it not a legal immorality,which needs to be reviewed and the constitution amended if need be.If not the line between the law abiding citizens and other criminals stand erased.
Theparty never said so.MR.Prakash Karat has said clearly,it was left to his discretion/choice.The CPI-M has also admitted the speaker''s name has been wrongly included in the list of MPs,withdrawing the support to the UPA Government.How can the party find fault with him now,when he excercised his choice?
Thanks for proving me right regarding the oppurtunistic politics indulged in without exception,throwing the principles and ideologies to the winds.BTW.
This could be made possible only by winning through a no confidence motion.
SO the trust vote has lost its relevance except to provide solace to the winner.
She may have to work her equations and arthimetics right in that direction.
This is the right way to really help the deprived class.Quotas did little help to remove the inequalities since independence.
Only SP (Amar singh) made it possible.It is a different matter that both PMO & AMAR SINGH tried to give a white wash to this meeting,which did not stick well,for the public to fall for it.It only sullied the image of PM.
When it gave the green signal to IAEA.This action is legally valid.What happened after that date or is happening or may happen later is of no consequence now in the context of the vote of confidence.
Till that date it was in majority with outside supporters.Hence the vote of support now on the floor of the house, makes little difference whether it wins or not the vote of confidence,because,it still could continue as a care taker government for a period of another six months,or untill the fresh elections are held.
Now the ball is in the court of USA to take it forward.The voting in the Indian parliament has no relevance and is inconsequential.Now It is only a matter whether the elections would be on schedule or preponed.
If that be so the laws,rules and procedures would become infructuous and redundant.Better to remove them from the statutes of constitutional governance.
All citizens can aspire and try their luck in the lucrative field.
Be it a moral or legal ground.He has a choice to firm up his decision on political ground.
Till the last vote is cast,none could affirm who wins,due to several ifs and buts that fluctuates the fortunes, for another week.
Till it comes forth with the absolute wanton culpability of the U.P.Police,no action could be taken.
What emerges out of it is any body''s guess.What permutions and combinations will take shape in future,NO ONE KNOWS PRECISELY.
What is needed is an effective co-ordination and decision making process.
Acts speak better than loud and long speeches.
The rest is politics in this context.
Instead of calling it a political Blackmail,the participants in this farce,like to use the most Honourable words like " give and take".
Irrespective of the merits or demerits of the text,the UPA has lost its credibility in the process.
We call it an agreement,when it is signed by both sides on mutual satisfaction.It is a give and take process.
Even after release on bail,Rajesh Talwar continues to remain on the list of suspects,till the final word is saidon this.This the factual situation.
Hence the solution lies in self reliance,instead of perpetually trying to live with borrowed strengths.
PEOPLE ENTER AND EXIT.It is a classical show free of cost to watch and enjoy.
He is concerned about making both ends of daily sustenence meet,which the soaring prices will not permit him and drives into heavy indebtedness.
It is always a matter of give and take.The fact that the cases aganist MAYAWATI are being pursued afresh,tells it all.Shall we call it vendetta,keeping silent over them as long as she supported the UPA?
Be it SP OR BSP OR ANY OTHER PARTY IN U.P.
It is no more a WIP.
It is reported that this was done on 7th itself and forwarded to IAEA.This matter should have been placed before MR.BUSH,by the PM,POSSIBLY ON THE SAME DAY,OR DURING THEIR DISCUSSIONS WHEN THEY MET, which might have been well appreciated.
In politics all are possible.
In politics all are possible.
Whether one agrees with their stand or not,there is nothing to surprise about it.But what surprises one, is the sudden volt face of the UPA in general and congress in particular,on this Tuesday night,which shows them in very poor light.
This made the difference and now turned out to be the anchoring point in polarisation of new allignments which are fast catching up.Uncertainity prevails in governance to the detriment of the people and nation.
By acting contrary to what it has promissed all the while.Either it wins or loses now is of little consequence.However this would be made an election issue as and when the elections take place,much to the chargin of the UPA.
He made it clear that he would seek it before going to IAEA FOR ANY FURTHER ACTION,which in fact has not been done.The green signal for IAEA was given on the contrary,after the left has announced its withdrawl of support on tues day,and before it presented the letters of withdrawl,on wednessday,as the HON''BLE PRESIDENT was out of station,in a hurry on tuesday night itself, there by deceiving both the NATION AND ITS PEOPLE.This shows how honest we all are!!!
Unfortunately it made a mess of the whole thing from the begining and finally landed in a mess!!!
It should be a major stake holder!!!
It is not the job of others to sort out INDIA'S problems.It alone has to find the answers,for the energy problems,by tapping and augmenting all the options,since energy is a perpetual requirement for any country, wanting to prosper!!!
It is to benifit the people without which none could exist,be it cosmic, solar,thermal,hydro,nuclear or bio fuel etc.It is only a question of which resource one taps,for the betterment of people and development
to build a prosperous civilization ultimately.
In all this process we should realise that there is nothing like a clean flow of instant energy.It needs to be derived through some equipment or the other,which neededs time.
Any government has got to balance prodently the factors of the needs, costs and time,in this process and has to take a decision.
There could be N number of alternatives,but,
the government of the day has to base its decision to serve the long range interests of the people and nation!!!
1.Due to commercialisation in urban areas,there is no time for people to focus on religion.This shows that spiritualism has lost VS materialism!!!
2.If it means that the "Religion" itself has been commercialised,the distinction between urban areas and rural areas vanishes!!!
So far no substantiating evidence has surfaced.There are only suspects.Investigations into every possible angle is being looked into by the agency!!!
No government should remain as a hostage in the hands of others,where the national interests are supreme!!!
On the one hand we have a law that permits the drinking.On the other hand we have a law that prohibhits the drunken driving,which surfaces only after an accident takes place.There is no way to prevent drunkenness as long as the drinks are allowed to be consumed unlimited.There lies the falacy!!!
The script writers solely depend on them for their lively hood and cater to their tastes only!!!
It was clearly stated by the foreign minister that the choice before the government has been,either to go with the deal or survival of the government and they opted for the later.
As a matter of fact it was not mandatory for the government after signing the 123 agreement,to get it discussed and seek the approval of the parliament.But by going in circles,for the sake of its own survival,it landed in a mess!!!
This has to be viewed in the very concept of "GOD
AS A FORCE" which governs through the laws of the nature.When we call it a force,both the theists and atheists have to invariably converge on the "concept,content and context".They do differ only in its form,as per one's own individual perceptions of naming this "FORCE"!!!
In enhancing the inflation,besides increasing the NPAs of the banks which would hamper the growth in the right direction.One should produce wealth,before its distribution.Or else,the day may not be far off,for the nation to go bankrupt!!!
We need a lot more "electoral reforms".It is high time a more prudent judicial review is taken,to plug several other loop holes in evolving a healthy democracy!!!
Any investigation needs time.Better not to rush for wrong conclusions!!!
It should not be done for bringing in further divisions and sub-divisions,which would be detrimental to the interests of the nation.It is not desirable to go backwards into history!!!
It is only the politics,which has put it on "ventilators" periodically,due to vote bank politics.This negates the spirit of equality of oppurtunities for the population and perpetuates the "caste system" for all times to come, instead of eradicating it lock,stock and barrel!!!
He stands for changes,be it politics or economics
besides initiating social welfare measures.His election to the post may augur well for a new world order,despite the fact that he does not have the other wise long experiences of MCCAIN.
In other words,this contest would be between "CHANGE vs STATUSQO"!!!
These talks should culminate in coming to grips with the situation and arrive at a compromise.
So far no evidence worthwhile has come to the fore front!!!
Had our learned leaders originally made a constitutional stipulation,that the "economic backwardness" should be the basis,below a certain line,for reservations things would have been far better,in building up a modern INDIA.
It was unfortunate they then opted for the reservations based on castes,though for a specified period,has been perpetuated till date,adding further divisions to the list,by the successive governments,on political considerations and the same is being allowed to continue endlessly.
These wrong steps have only enabled us to score more "self goals".!!!
These would put fetters on the government and administration.May be with more than six decades of experiences,it is high time for our polity to evolve the basic national and international policies,with vision,that enables the continuation of the same for the good of the nation and people.If not the people may have to pay a heavy price as we go further!!!
The very fact that where ever we go,we see every street with littering waste,each house putting it at the other side and every nalla overflowing with stinking smell and let of freely into the lakes,rivers or any other low lying areas amply proves that we do not have any concern.It is not even lip service.This is the reality!!!
But in a country,where the respect for law is a rare commodity,with the polity is in shambles,
can we expect anything better???
Their national interests as is known would make them to subordinate their individual and party interests to the paramount one!!!
This is to be coupled and read with the economies of both the developed and developing countries.With a self imposed ceilings on outputs
as aganist the growing demands,an artificial scarcity conditions are created to rake in higher profits to the oil producing companies/countries at the cost of others.
When we add to this the higher taxations by the respective governments to generate more revenues to meet the costs of other developmental activities,we may better call it instead of mismanagement, the room for manoverabilities to balance the expenditure vs revenues becomes restricted,pushing any government to the corner.
This is the minimum expected of any government to lead by an example.Better late than never!!!
One is cut down the costs else where.The second one is to find means to earn extra income by any other means!!!
People think any oppurtunity open to them could be encashed.They are not sentimental!!!
be it an urban or rural life styles.Nuclear families have been on thr rise in place of joint families,leaving the aged people to fend for themselves.This is causing both financial and psychological problems.Few realise that this is a stage one has to invariably pss through.
Neither the people nor the government have made any planning to meet this situation,more so in a poor country like ours,to house the old people and attend to their needs.This is the most unfortunate part.
This a thougt provoking case which calls for a solution.Besides none wants to utilise the experriences and expertise of the senior citizens,though they are phisically capable of rendering the services.
May be the senior citizens come forward by floating NGOs,for the good of the society too!!!
The process in this direction to address the problem should be initiated at the earliest to find the solution,in conformity with the constitutional stipulations and laws thereof!!!
What surprises one is while people wish to go up the ladder,here is a case where this group wants to come down the ladder!!!
CBI IS A PROFESSIONAL BODY capable of bringinging forth the evidences,sustainable in the court of law.People look forward that this riddle would be solved bythem at the earliest!!!
When it links and passes on the fluctuations with regard to both the rise and fall of the prices,and passes the benifits too to the consumers when the prices fall,the people will digest it properly.
But unfortunately this is not happening,which is the root cause for the problem,and worry some.IT CANNOT BE A POLICY OF "HEADS I WIN & TAILS YOU LOOSE ENDLESSLY"!!!
Earlier we deported even the refugees back!!!
Atleast this has been the impression of the very common man so far!!!
The police are still gropping in the dark to get the evidence!!!
They transfered him back to judicial custody,and in all probability he may be let off soon,under the circumstances!!!
As long as it conforms to the verdicts/rulings given by the SC!!!
Going by the events and investigation!!!
So far it has been a wild goose chase,with no substantial evidence,in it's hands.This is the pity!!!
They will rush to the courts and EC,to get a favourable decision in their favour,before the ensuing assembly and LS polls!!!
It seems both the parties wish to go in appeal to the next higher court!!!
We have had umpteen cases where the higher courts did take a different views while disposing of the cases before them!!!
Though the cenral government rejected the letter of RAJASTAN CM initially,obviously on second thoughts,this matter has been refered to its law ministry,has also sought the views of the other CMs concerned.
This only goes to prove that this aspect is not an exclusive one state(RAJASTAN) subject and the centre need to act taking cognizance of the overall repursussions in the larger interests!!!
At the outset national interests should be kept above the political interests of the parties.
Firstly,the nation simply can illafford to allow the oil companies to go bankrupt.
Secondly the nation cannot sustain the projected losses of about RS.600/= crores per day.
This leaves the government with only two options chiefly,viz:-
1. Hike the prices proportionately with the rise in the price of the global market.Similarily there should be a decrease in domastic prices,as and when the global prices fall.A suitable mechanism could be evolved to serve the interests of both the government and the consumer.
2. Alternatively there should be a commensurate cut in customs duty on the imported crude,reduction of central excise duties and state sales tax.The resultant fall in the state revenues are to be born,by prunning some of the developmental activities.
3. we can also have a selective approch,combining both aspects as mentioned above.
Elections or no elections,a pragmatic view should be taken and a permanent institutional mechanism should be adopted in the long range interests of the Nation,government and the consumers,instead of having knee jerk reactions and vacillations every time!!!
This is a proverb.The same applies to all governments!!!
There are norms,guide lines and procedures for CBI to step in.Not that it takes the burden of each and every crime committed across the country.This is no solution to the problem!!!
This is no solution.What needed is that we should have qualified and well trained police from the gross root level,to conduct the preliminary investigations,by cordoning of the scene of the crime,before the top officials and experts are called in to look further.This will go a long way to streamline things in the set up!!!
Vote bank politics are being practised by all with out any exception to grab power.The principles and idelogies have been thrown to winds long ago.Should we call it a change of value system or total degradation and decay of the society!!!
This momentum gathers the mass and keeps on rolling making it difficult to stop!!!
The frustations,desperations and disappointments are quite understandable!!!Which system of governance is void of the problems mentioned by you???
But,people wish that it should help to expose the inadequecies of the sytems of governance,which alone would improve the matters!!!
WHEN A NOMINATION HAS BEEN ENTERTAINED IT IS DEEMED TO BE IN ORDER AND ANY CHARGE FROM THE OPPONENTS STANDS AS MOTIVATED!!!
This is seen to be missing viewed in the context of very heavy pendency of cases both criminal and civil.Even in this case now none could be sure that the final word has been said since the judicial system permits appeals after appeals from one court to the other higher court!!!
This would usher in a harmonious society!!!
We hear only floating conjectures and wild speculations!!!
One could at best say the investigation has been completed and the accused are produced in the trail court for further procedings!!!
No warrant WOULD BE ISSUED without the primafacie evidence.It is too premature to draw conclusions either way!!!
If not why do we need a constitution and laws made thereof!!!
One wonders what he wanted to achieve or covey.He is a part of the same constitution.
All things are possible in politics!!!
BUT FOR IT, TO MATERIALISE THE OBSTCLES ARE MANY
UNFORTUNATELY!!!
People know well this body is nothing but the political leadership at the helm of affairs!!!
You are right MR.Nariman.But we have mostly irrational people!!!
MR.Nariman,terrorisim has no boundaries,while nationalism is confined to its boarders.Hence the need for a unified international effort to face it squarely,which is not that simple,as we are witnessing!!!
Constant alround vigil,by all which includes the people,without any complecency alone, is the guarantee to minimise it, if not fully avoidable!!!
In the absence of the above the tensions are bound to rise!!!
The action follows later.One need to wait with patience.
FAILURE IS NOT FINAL.This quote aptly suits for all situations and at all times.
Across the country with new formulations.This may have to be viewed in concert with the bypolls,currently being held in A.P.too,which may throw out a better picture!!!
No party would get even a simple majority.It would be back to square one with a few + or - seats.The only interesting point is who joins whom in forming the government!!!
This is the only way to build a healthy democracy!!!
It goes without saying that there are bound to be match fixings!!!
Such a stringent action alone could usher in a healthy democracy.!!!
HIKE IS A MERE CONSOLATION AFTER THE PRICE RAISES AND CORRUPTION IS AN ATTITUDINAL HABIT.
While some of your suggestions are very pertinent,the enforcement authorities lack the courage to implement them,for their self interests would be effected,if acted upon!!!
Hence the corruption both by necessity and attitude invariably continues with not much of a visible effect!!!
MR.Nariman,no cause even if it is genuine should be allowed to take the civilization,built up over centuries,back into the stone ages,where man ate man.This no progress towards inclusive prosperity!!!
To curb such tendencies only,we have different forms of governance.If people are dissatisfied with one,they have an option to choose another one,"BUT bARBARISM IS NO REMEDY".
Hope you would agree!!!
POLICIES MAY CHANGE BUT NOT NECESSARILY THE PRINCIPLES!!!
Policies may change but not necessarily the principles!!!
Let us all wish TATAS the best of luck in turning the loss making companies to profit making ones in a short time.They deserve alround congratulations for closing the deals!!!
This is a situation where ultimately the talent would be a casuality buffetted between from both sides!!!
India can not say any longer it is a civilised Nation!!!
With lower rates of lending and more money coming into the market will hike the inflation,more so with forward trading!!!
An issue that could not be resolved even after six decades and two wars,(Kargil action not included) may take some more decades to resolve it.One should be surprised if it is to the contrary!!!
lET A FREE HAND BE GIVEN TO THEM WITH NO POLITICAL INTERFERENCES.
The results would flow automatically!!!
But what is not expected is the inept handling by the government to take prompt corrective measures to control it!!!
If necessary it could draw the lessons,from those who are fighting the terror unhesitatingly.
No vacillations will help!!!
Let us not forget the fact that the government is duty bound to honour its agreement that TIBET is a part of CHINA!!!
Sports and politics should never be mixed up!!!
This is to be viewed in conjunction with MITTAL'S aquisitions and ONGC'S joint ventures outside INDIA!!!
MR.satishda,governance and administration are more complicated too!!!
Very much appreciated friend!But the human tendency is always to compare one self with the neighbour.This is how the class system has been brought in and still in work.Add this to the castebased reservations,where by merit and talent have become the casualities.A fellow who will not work does not work any how.But by comparisons, one who is capable of work with talent will cease to work.
The result is poor governance culminating in, lower efficiency with no or little productivity!!!
The fault lies with the political system,whose main moto is to cling on to power by hook or crook,unmindful of people's owes and miseries.BTW!!!
You are absolutely right sir.The false secular mask we wear to suit our convieniences,has proved to be hypocritical and fallen to the ground!!!
There is little time left to understand each other,and most of the partners find it much easier to understand the people,who spend more time with them in the given environment.
This is the root cause for several upheavals on the domastic front,with newly found freedoms and proximities!!!
The corruption has been deeply ingrained into our psyche,and we will not spare even GOD in our daily lives and prayers!!!
A WELL PLANNED STRATEGY,WITH A COOL HEADED DETERMINATION WILL SURELY HELP!!!
It is time to curb the anti social elements however mighty they are!!!
This is amply reflected in all fields,including politics!!!
This aspect should be built into the law to avoid any misuse by the people in the former case!!!
The international community,specially the UN to prod China to begin negotiations with DALAI LAMA,to arrive at a honourable and mutually acceptable settlement!!!
This only shows,that we are like frogs in the wells!!!
It left an alround impression that Indian government lost its secular credentials.This is unfortunate part of the fiasco!!!
The verdict on conviction is yet to come.
Due to coalition compulsions,confining her in a house for security reasons,is no hospitality extended.It would have been more honourable if she was asked to leave the country,after Kolkata fiasco!!!
To extract its pound of flesh,specially after the conflicting statements made by Kashmir singh,after his release!!!
More so as a concequence of Kashmir singh's volt face on retr=urn to india,after his release.It is different matter he made an about turn again on this statement!!!
This is mainly attributable to coalition compulsions and subsequent litigations obviously!!!
Seems it all depends on the favourable whether conditions!!!
The real pictures would start emerging after june 30th 2008,for people to properly evaluate!!!
This fundamental is known to all the investors.
Yet another true leader has to dawn on the scene,to inculcate the spirit of NATIONALISM to the majority of the people!!!
Sure most of them have neither seen the rural INDIA,nor do they understand their problems.This is the real INDIA which they should go to see and live with them for quite some time to represent them!!!
Cricket is the only game that is mostly encouraged at the cost of others.This is very unfortunate!!!
It may make a difference for those who are in this line of business!!!
It may make a difference for the people in this line of business!!!
The purpose is only to deal with all such situations.Strikes should not be made a routine affair.
It is only a matter of time when the markets will go bullish once again and this is a game that continues on and on.
A few cases of crimes do occur in all countries.Sweeping generalised remarks are unwarranted and these are to be dealt sternly,by the police.
Looks like it has become a fashion for every crime,the parties or people demand a central intervention or a CBI enquiry.If it is the case we do not need the state governments.
WHAT IS NEEDED IS AN ANTICIPATION OF GROWTH OF POPULATION AND THEIR LIKELY SHIFTS,TO PLAN BETTER.QHO KNOWS THAT THIS EXODUS MAY HELP THE ECONOMY TO GROW AS WELL!!!
Yet certain flare ups may araise,the human nature being what it is,which should be controlled without loosing any time!!!
MR.Nariman,is it not the same for all???
Nothing can be taken for granted till the last ballot is cast!!!
They tend to destroy all things that come in the way to serve their self interests,including other fellow humans,in a civilised or uncivilised manner.This has been their history and remains so for all times to come unfortunately!!!
KILLED all other games and sports,undoubtedly!!!
Friend,the observations made are too general and sweeping araising out of the presumptions and assumptions. There could be some black sheep in all professions and so is in medical line too.
The aim of the doctor(s) is always to save a patient and not to kill one.There are several ponderables and imponderables which need to be rightly analysed.
Mob violence when ever any patient dies is quite unjustified,while their anger due to the loss of their kin is understandable.
None objects for any wanton lapses of negligence on the part of the doctors.But we cannot palm off all failures only to them,with no suitable enquiry and an objective study of all aspects,inclding the condition of a patient when one is brought to the hospital!!!
There could only be one winner after all.We all should be happy for winning the finals.But let us not forget the fact it was under D/L method due to the curtailed play because of rain.
Ofcourse a win is a win!!!
Neither bulls nor bears can hold it firmly for ever!!!
Any precedent made and any previlege confered once are difficult to be withdrawn friend!!!
You are right friend,but for your last sentence,which stands out only as an assumption.Hope all is well!!!
This will avoid unnecessary confusions and unwarranted redtape,which are the breeding centers of corruption!!!
you are quite right.Precedents become prerogatives.When once confered these are difficult to be withdrawn!!!
Friend,precedents become prerogatives which when once confered would be difficult to withdraw later.We have already been experiencing these since long!!!
Thank you friend.It is good we are maturing ourselves slowly though into a mature democracy.With education and awareness spreading,I am sure things will show up for a beter morrow!!!
MR.Nariman,good investments,the ROIs,higher productivities leading to generation of wealth,balanced taxations,revenue collections with no room for corruption etc,are all a part and parcel of incremental development alround.
No nation can afford to survive on freebies for ever!!!
By the vested interests.This culture is only a notion good for self deception!!!
Not a bad idea friend.But where do we export the other lots of species???
IT does not speak well about our systems to govern ourselves.It is a pity!!!
There is no clarity and a clear direction from the powers that be,specially when it has been spreading across various states.It can not be treated as a mere law and order problem of a state.The centre need to evolve a consistent and coherent policy to tackle this menace!!!
This is a clear indication the road is bumpy!!!
But 8.7% of growth aganist the projected growth of 9% is a pointer that the economy is moving in the right direction,as this short fall is minimal.
With proper implementation of the right monetary and fiscal policies!!!
MR.Nariman,people know that TAXATION is a must for growth and development across the country and in all states.Only the contents and forms may vary friend!!!
The salient features of it are reported to be:-
1.Sc will be requested to clear the project
as requested by DMK.
2.The centre is willing to consider the change
in alaignment,keeping in view the sentiments
of the faith of the majority people.
3.The SC will be requested to give its
clearance in November 2008.
This may be a pointer,because the centre is playing safe and its biding of time,that the elections would be held in all probability,before November 2008!!!
You are right friend.
DON'T you think,that it might be a good idea to send these to the jungles,to boost the tribe of Tigers,which is reported to be dwindling???
It suggested to book the Kingpin for not registering with IMA to practice.
This is a new angle and interesting one!!!
Not a bad idea friend!!!
But what do we do with all those other species,whose survival is still worse???
HI! MR.Nariman,how are you friend.It is my fortune to be amidist you all with all your good wishes.
It has also been reported that this entire drama was stage managed by the congress & NCP,for reasons better known to them and hence the delay to arrest him etc.Any light on this from you!!!
AT CENTRE AND STATES,we cannot term it as an "ADMINISTRATIVE LAXITY"!!!
This may serve the vested interests,but not the interests of the cricket game!!!
Even if the coialition government is formed,at best it would be short lived one.Already the cases aganist MR.Zardari off PPP have been reopened!!!
With neither a clear cut dimension or magnitude.Add to this the POSSIBLE outcome of the ensuing LS polls in INDIA!!!
Ofcourse the scenarios may be changing.He is bound to take the advantage on the stability factor!!!
These reasons could be quite varying in nature from uneconomical land holding,domastic problems,
health problems,health habits,consumerism etc,any one or all leading to heavy idebtedness,leading to high depression,culminating in a suicide.
We have very many cases of suicides even away from the farmers.Unless the cause is known precisely it would be unfair to conclude that fact in general terms,distorting the facts!!!
It is really good that NDTV introduced this topic which calls for the real answers.Let me congratulate them at the outset.
The journalist generally presuposes the owes of the farmer,and his interaction with him goes on expected lines,to make a story out of the limited interview due to constraint of time.
On the other hand,the farmer has to live through the seasons year after year,facing the ordeals and travails through his hard workwhether it shines or rains!!!
These he fails to convey properly in an sequential fashion with in the allotted time slot,for several reasons which are known.At best he would say he is hard pressed to make both ends meet.
If the journalist wants to make a really good coverage to present,one needs to start from the extent of his land holding,the type,the size of the family,the input costs,output remunerations,transport and marketting facilities,besides the loan facilities made available at what point of time and interest rate etc.
The hardships caused by floods and draughts have been the recurring features.
After conducting a sample survey of a few farmers in selected villages,the journalist have to compile the data,formulate the necessary tables,analyse them with checks and counter checks,before making out a final report.
It is doubtful whether the media and the journalists have the requisite patience and time to spend, to highlight the owes of the farmers in an objective manner,instead of a subjective one.
Let us search our hearts to find the real answers!!!
Whether the government considers NAXALISM as yet another democratic political Ideology or an absolute millitant outfit to destroy the democratic and social set up!!!
Despite the fact that this step has been crossed over for restoration of DEMOCRACY,it's future depends on the coming together of the two chief rivals!
We may witness an unstable coailition government there for some time.
Verdict of people is always for or against a party.Do we follow the same question in case of other states.If it be so we might be grooming only dictators.People won't desire such a situation to confront them!!!
India should be proud of its diversity,heritage and culture!!!
The society fabric is made up of different strands.The damaged ones would be removed and replaced naturally!!!
DON'T WE HAVE SOME PRECEDENTS???
Only then we can have a much reduced crime rate!!!
For India produced several of them!!!
This will help the government to assess the public reactions and perceptions!!!
No country could ignore the security concerns of the country,while approving any project of this kind specially!!!
It is some consolation!!!
This only adds to the population explosion and the resultant problems.
These helplines should be made active with wide publicity,by the government,to bring in an awareness among the public,where to go to seek the right advice or counselling in all such situations.
The essential requirement is that these help lines should be managed by the professionals and not by rotine setups.
For all till the student attains the age of 18 years.One undergoes all kinds of emotional stresses for different reasons during this period.Only a psychologist could properly analyse and diagnoise the defeciencies if any and render the necessary counselling case by case.
This in turn would result in developing a healthy society.
It is expected to examine this case from all angles!!!
Friend,Hindutva as said by the SC encompasses all Hindus IRRESPECTIVE OF THE POLITICS,which they indulge in.
Happy to share views with you.You may go through my post above on this subject.None should play oppurtunistic and vote bank politics.
Yet,we know politics have changed from bad to worse!!!
Friend,none is a criminal unless he is sentnsed and sent behind the bars as we all know.How are you dear???
Friends,we have a long way to go to mature ourselves in the democratic processes and systems!!!
EXPEDITIOUSLY.
This will help in ensuring the justice at the earliest!!!
ANY PART OF THE COUNTRY.
SURE THIS NOBLE THOUGHT APPLIES TO ALL PARTS OF THE COUNTRY,INCLUDING J&K,AS WELL!!!
Do Indians citizens from other states could be called as outsiders?Don't they have the right in any part of INDIA to work and live?The sons of the soil theory is quite unconstitutional and goes aganist the interests of the Nation and its people.All such tendencies have got to be nipped in the bud.
Let the politicians fight for their power,without damaging the Nation's social fabric and its composite culture!!!
Are we living in INDIA? This type of highly irresponsible statements,from whichever quarter they emmanate need to be condemned and stern action taken,lest the country may be heading for bakanisation.This should be nipped in the bud.
Hope all responsible leaders of all political parties,should denounce all such atatements,speches and activities in no uncertain terms,forth with in the interests of the nation and its people!!!
To the extent possible the DPR will be prepared only after a feasibility report(FR) is accepted,
IN PRINCIPLE.
It is not that the DPR is a holy text,for it undergoes a few changes here and there, while in operation,but not totally.
Viewed in the context of this conceptualised project from about 250 years back,with a plethora of reports on this,when the works on this project have been taken up in the recent past few years,one concludes reasonably that all aspects were examined.
Now that the matter is before the Supreme court,waiting for an affidavit from the Centre,only indicates that some where down the line,certain adhoc decisions were taken,warranting the intervention of the SC.
A project of this nature,just cannot be shelved on a single factor,unless the decision is fundamentally wrong.
May be we shall be hearing from the SC shortly!!!
Nice to be back amidst you all,dear friend MR.Nariman.A good day for all of you.
Now reverting to your post,I fully endorse your views on the bad politics practiced, by all,which are oppurtunistic,unethical and immoral,in my opinion.
However,I beg to differ when this is attributed to Hindutva, which is all encompassing and not exclusive to any one segment!
It is time for all INDIANS to pause and ponder and proceed in the right direction,as it once used to be, the becon light for the humanity,and follow the same for all times.
MR.Nariman,BUDDHISM is an extended reformative thought process and Gautam Buddha,has been acclaimed as an Avatar by the Hindus.Is this not a fact of history???
MR.Nariman,can we have any "archeologically supportive facts" in this direction???
MR.gautam,backwardness cannot be attributed to religion alone.It is a culmination of several factors.We even now have different systems of governance in the world.What the people want is a good governance,but not the type!!!
It is left to the people to give their verdict in the next elections for the nonfullfillment of the promises made by the parties!!!
MR.Nariman,going by the texts,every being is a manifestation,which is an AVATARA itself!!!
MR.gautam,the truth is all religions(theists) agree that there lies a supreme force or conciousness governing the universes which is formless,be it"Brahman,Yehova,Allah,Lord,God etc"!!!
This has been a "logical or a revalation" process.
The atheists followed a different path of experimentation and have also come to the same conclusion more or less,that there is a "Unitary Magnetic field" controlling the universes.
Though the means vary the conclusions are similar.This itself is a great convergence!!!
For a LKG student we canot explain the highest physical sciences or even for that matter,most of us who are educated also are unable to think or comprehend the principles.We might have a general view of all,but not in depth!!!
I personally feel,the troubles arise out of our ignorance and arrogance with an egoistic attitude of"I AM ALWAYS RIGHT & CAN NEVER GO WRONG"!!!!
MR.raspri,your post comprises two parts.One relating to caste based reservations and the other to corruption.A very valid point!!!
Friend please tell us whether we have any relevant data about the statewise and castewise % of corruption???
Friend,for an objective discussions,can you please tell us in a chronological order, with their periods,about the evolution of different schools or thoughts/concepts,with regard to "HINDUISM" from its inception!!!
Friend,for an objective discussions,can you please tell us in a chronological order, with their periods,about the evolution of different schools or thoughts/concepts,with regard to "HINDUISM" from its inception!!!
MR.Nariman,at the outset,this is to make clear,that GAUTAM BUDDHA has been accepted and revere/treated as an AVATARA,by all Hindus,which basically nullifies all the historical theories which you quoted!!!
Even then,hatred is aganist the Hindu tenets and texts.At the worst,if they took place they could have come from some perverted madcap!!!
The same could be the case with the Mahant.
Friend,you mentioned rightly/wrongly, some quotes.Are they based on any substantial facts or only surmises???
You may furnish the requsite data on which those conclsions were made.
Similarily,please tell us to which kingdom king"Shashanka" belonged and in which period.
We can come to HUEN TSANG later!!!
What was their "PSYCHE" from times immemorial and how come they developed a 'slavish mentality' over centuries????
Was it due to the fact that althrough they were ruled by "kings,emporers,monarchs,foreigners and feudal lords" forcing the people to fall in line or was it due to the fact that INDIA as we know now has never been a single nation as an entity???
Is it not time to change this mindset at the earliest???
MR.Nariman,I believe vivekananda and your quote too.But you have not answered my questions yet friend!!!
radhikarajen,if we see the topics under "NEWS" itself,we find a list of 189 topics,most of which are obsolate!!!
Some of them I have been seeing for years and continue to be there even now,having lost their utility!!!
friend,when the train with different bogies,moves in different directions it is known as a derialment and mishap.In that case,there is nothing to board,except each one getting on to the shoulders of the other!!!
MR.Nariman,we have quite a few others too!!!
You are right radhikarajen.sans the spirit,be it a body or text will lose their relevance to those who identifies with the body,but not the spirit!!!
Agood point MR.Arun!!!
Of their predecessors, making them to go round the courts,till the next elections arrive on the scene!!!
Protection of their chairs is another cause of worry,which eats into the little time, if available to them!!!
THE CONGRESS thinks it would be a great success for them,only if they could complete the transformation of "communists into capitalists"!!!
MR.rviaykumar,it is more apt to say,because of divisions in our society only,the EIC could rule us!!!
MR.Nariman,if concessions are given to some,some will have to bear the extra burden.This is the sum and substance of managing the economy!!!
FRIEND,YET THIS GOVERNMENT IS FULLY SUPPORTED BY THOSE WHO SAY THAT PEOPLE'S INTERESTS ARE AT THEIR HEARTS!!!
What do secularalists say now on "freedom of expression or artistic freedom"???
Norms should be the same and uniform in all such cases!!!
MR.RAJAYE,None disputed these developments!!!
FROM the list of items on each MB please???
All would love it!!!
MR.Nariman,the quote furnished by you was in a different context,only to prove how ignorant the authors could be!!!
Any way,pease tell us,what were the types and designs of "BUDDHISTIC ARCHITECTURE" as per history!!!
Do our GOVERNMENT/ASI could bring forth to the notice of the public,any evidence of such destruction of BUDDHISTIC structures and rebuilding of the temples???
MR.gautam,the perceptions could differ and views are are aired accordingly.Let us all go with that spirit,in our debates!!!
Agrrements and disagreements are but natural in all debates as we know friend!!!
WHAT WILL HAPPEN,if this is the attitude of law and order establishments and security agencies,whom we blame for their "action and nonaction" on all occassions friend!!
Why should they risk their lives,to protect the useless lot of people,if that is the case???
This is what I also tell friend.Let these castes exist for ever and ever.God bless us all!!!
Friend,we are all fellow travellers to catch the same train.In their anxiety to throw mud,they are stuck with mud neck deep and are sure to miss the train friend!!!
There appears to be no collective responsibility and PM is only a show piece!!!
For he makes no mistakes!!!
All are interested to keep their chairs in tact first.Countries interests come in the last!!!
To reach our destination!!!
They are afraid as it appears to go there,due to militancy and violence,TO CHECK THE FACTS,while they have free to move in GUJARAT!!!
This monster cannot be killed while caste based reservations are in force!!!
Thanks for the correction and sorry for my jumbled up sentence.
What I meant was that the congress ruled for a "majority period" in six decades since independence!!!
THE WORD "hindus"includes whom all MR.RAJAYE and the what precisely the word "HINDU" conveys and is associated with???
MR.Nariman,naturally to congress which ruled the state for almost about six decades after independence in all!!!
MR.Nariman,the fact of the matter is the lunatics have more freedom,in LAs than any one outside of them
The former has the symathy of others,while the later has only to struggle!!!
The word Secular means "not concerned with r eligion"(Nastics),and does not respect any religion!!!
The politicians gave a distorted meaning for the obvious reasons!!!
Then it is time to get them admited in the hospital,for digestive disorders!!!
MR.COMMENTS,YOUR POST IS CONTRADICTORY.Bad guys could exist even in one's families.Is it not???
Hope sane counsels would prevail alround!!!
First be clear whether it is a way of life or a religion,before we go further with the debate!!!
ELABORATION please itemwise,with facts to substantiate!!!
Hinduism is also a way of life even without understanding the principles of Vedas and upanishads!!!
What is that "universal consciousness" in your perception???
Secularalists have started it already there long before!!!
The other three are you,MR.Nariman and agniputra I suppose.
The two is company.With the addition of you three it is a crowd!!!
Doubt whether you could understand the difference!!!
MR.Nariman,facts will not alter because you say it repeatedly.Who all lost the sense of proportion is evident to all here.
Only people who cannot advance the arguements in a decent debate, will indulge in abuses like you,Rajaye and others.
I am ready for your games fair or foul.
you are no authority to accord the certificates to others!!!
MR.gautam,do not expect a straight answer.He goes in circles,beating around the bush!!!
MR.Nariman,please continue your "quantity of work"!!!
NEITHER YOU HAVE THE CAPACITY TO UNDERSTAND THE TOPIC NOR POST ONE.ALL TRASH!!!
MR.Nariman,you are only upset with my question.I am not agitated at all!!!
The rest of your post is equally a worn out gramaphone record only.How many times you have not mentioned it friend.
How many times did you not call others as fascists earlier and why do you get upset when you are at the receiving end???
I am not inventing ways.I just wanted to pay back in the same coin which often you hurl at others friend!!!
Each one of us have our own styles.Is it
not???
Just a "retaliation" to make you understand that it could be verbal and nonviolent too!!!
Nothing personal friend!!!
MR.Nariman.the question here is whether you can justify the bans after agitations,either partially or fully on "DAVINCICODE OR SATANIC VERSES" which have later proved to be "discriminatory" to favour some religions???
Who takes advantage of it is an "immeterial and irrelevant" question,because,people have set up precedents already to be followed by others!!!
MR.Nariman,the painters or people were more honest and true to their profession,unlike the 21st century modernised people.Our ignorance is a different matter.
Friend,no freedoms are absolute,total and complete,as I said even earlier and had their limitations too, within the frame work of the constitution,which alone, the people could enjoy!!!
Even assuming for arguement's sake as you said that "there are no boundaries",for artists,there are no boundaries for "Lunatics" too!!!
Yes we all agree that violence is bad.But need it be only physical? It could be mental also!!!
MR.Nariman,we would be doing justice with our debate,only when we deal with "violence" as an issue and its realted causes and cures,instead of discuusing these stray incidents.
They are bound to happen every now and then,as intrincically they are intertwained with "human nature" and applicable to any place or race!!!
MR.jay70,who are all the "so called HINDUS"???
Even then,most of them do not understand any thing properly,not to speak of Vivekananda or any other for that matter!!!
But friend what has the food habits got to do with Hinduism which permits all to have their own likes and dislikes,as long as they do not infringe on the rights of other laws of the land!!!
MR.raspri,you should pose the question of "land owning" as mentioned by you, should be rightly addressed to A.P.Government.What is the use of asking gautammehra about it who is in no way concerned???
Now reverting back to the rset of you post,yes all governments/people, since independence failed in the process.
If what you said in your last para is correct,why its followers failed to address it properly right through,till date???
A BEAUTIFUL DISCOVERY!!!
radhikarajen,you are right friend.A good comparison!!!
AAH! The cats are finally outof the bag!!!
Well said MR.Nariman that "those ill acts of BJP are for HINDUS and for promoting HINDUTVA"!!!
At last the "Horse" has spoken through its own mouth.
We all know now who both of them are!!!
Friends,here is a "TORSO" strggling to make some noise.Enjoy the fun!!!
Yet, all parties covering him up at an all party meeting convened byno less a person than by the SPEAKER of LS!!!
Friend this rubbish is known to all of us.There is nothing new to learn now afresh!!!
MR.Nariman,then let us all forget about our country,people and progress etc,and talk only about Arabian nights stories!!!
MR.Nariman,any good government will have to anticipate,visualise and formulate its plans accordingly.
Or else both the government and people will have to look at the skies onlu for ever cursing their fates!!!
Thank you MR.Nariman!!!
MR.Nariman,I do not think the dress you refered has been well preserved for "RAMRAHIM" to wear now.
But let us not forget the fact that we had very good painters which includes potraits in dress,or otherwise, in those periods,not to speak beyond the 15th and 16th centuries!!!
This speaks that they are not just mere assumptions!!!
Friend please eremember,that all freedoms could only be enjoyed within the parameters fixed by the laws/constitution of the land!!!
MR.Nariman,why are you curtailing his "freedom of speech" BY ASKING HIM NOT TO TELL YOU ABOUT "POTA"???
Do you think you alone has the freedom to say all sorts of things and all others should keep quite???
This is no "fascism" I think???
PROVIDED YOU HAVE ONE OR ANY FOR DEBATE!!!
"TOLERANCE" is always mutual and cannot be a onesided affair,in a secular country!!!
MR.Nariman,undoubtedly it is bad yet understandable being branded as a communalists.
But what is un-understandable is, when the "secularist parties,more so the communists" supporting these caste based reservations,which are unique for a community alone, known as HINDUS only!!!
If you say it is for political reasons,better we rest all arguements on caste based reservations!!!
MR.Nariman,who cares whether X wins or Y loses in politics,as long as the people's living conditions remain the same,as we have seen for the last sixty years!!!
In all parties across the country to change its face and pace!!!
MR.Nariman,how could it be possible,when we educated people are all here???
Stands duly answered on the other MB friend.No need to post the same message on every board!!!
Because,it is a "MODERN CIVILIZATION" in every aspect!!!
Yet to see an arguement in the debates from you.Best of luck!!!
MR.bonku,you may be right with practices but not with precepts and concepts!!!
MR.rebel,without intellectual imagination(hypothesis),logical analysis or experimentation ,we would not have progressed this far friend!!!
MR.FEDERER,surprising you did not answer my respose to your post.You may also see my response to MR.gautammehra too before you make your response if any.
Friend,leaving the topic behind you have seen how it goes tangential which in no way connected to the topic as it slides!!!
MR.gautam,the word "Fanatic" means, that one who is devoted to a strong belief,or activity or excessively enthusiastic,which are "positive traits" only.
Viewed from this perspective,the "world is full of them",and this does not mean all of them are necessarily "agressive and violent"!!!
This only speaks of a committment and devotion and nothing else.
Trust this fully clarifies and removes any misconceptions friend!!!
MR.rebel,the concept of GOD OR GODESSES itself is hypothetical and hence imaginary,logically though!!!
MR.Nariman,"expressions" cover a very wide range,from which some are acceptable and some are not acceptable to the laws of the land or society.
So when we say "freedom of expresion"it has to be well within the parameters fixed, and not absolute!!!
Trust this clarifies fully friend!!!
MR.Nariman,who belongs to any party here?Which is that hate family which you have refered and what is your concept of a family?
MR.Gautam,thank you for your well balanced and highly appreciative post!!!
MR.gautam,some like a cocktail of "classes,castes and religions".It takes one to cloud nine to enjoy!!!
MR.gautam,all have the equal rights to air their views.Do not get upset with occasional emotional outbursts friend.
We hae people here from all walks of life.You may continue cheerfully,with what you want to say!!!
Has lost its relevance.Better we switch over to a new one friend!!!
MR.Nariman,all want the power to rule and swindle money only with out exception.This is my consistent view,born by facts!!!
Or else how could any one finance their heavy election expenses running into crores, friend!!!
MR.Nariman,your comments irrespective of the parties, applies to all,including you I suppose!!!
Hence returned with compliments friend!!!
MR.Nariman,did I say that BJP/RSS won?I only said and captioned my topic as "HINDUTVA AGENDA FINALLY WON IN U.P"!!!
I AM NOT CONCERNED WITH THE SUCCESS OR FAILURES OF BJP/RSS!!!
MR.RAJAYE AND MR.Nariman,first,better both of you sort out the "confusions" between you both!!!
MR.rebel,He never spoke about "annhilation of castes" any where, in his post and why are you passing on the credit to him???
MR.rebel,there is not much of a change in that position even now!!!
MR.rebel,with such heavy handicaps, BJP cannot run or for that matter any one friend!!!
MR.Nariman,this same post of yours on the Business MB vide the last item,stands duly answered by me.Please go through friend!!!
Friend,may be the curiosity to go through the history!!!
MR.Nariman,did communal harmony exist prior to this?
Agree with your first line fully!!!
MR.rebel,I will appreciate very much if you can explain meaning of a "HINDU"!!!
PREPARE, TO ENJOY ITS CONSEQUENCES TOO,for nothing comes free in this world!!!
MR.Federer,yes,you are right in that Hinduism is a way of life and fanaticism is a part!!!
Who said that Hinduism is a religion in the first instance.If so who was its founder and founded when friend???
Yes some fanatics exist in all societies at all times.This does not mean all people are fanatics.
Can you tell us what is a "national spirit"and into which catogery it falls???
MR.Nariman & MR.RAJAYE,The beauty of "HINDUTVA" is,people could think,say or do things with absolute freedom at all times,UNLIKE OTHERS.
HINDUTVA is a ocean of love but not hatred.Do not link the dirty politics to it!!!
This includes both "astics and nastics" not to speak of others.
Friends I dare you to speak in the same manner about others openly and enjoy the music for yourselves!!!
Let us all hope that this would arrest the unhealthy trends presently followed and usher in new trends in investigations as expected from the state police!!!
MR.Nariman,do you mean to say all others are spreading love for BJP.They are spewing more hatred and venom on BJP.Love or hatred are reciprocal!!!
As we concluded several times none is an angel and a holy cow friend!!!
you are absolutely right friend!!!
friend,when we become a part of the ocean of humanity,these artificial barriers vanish,and no worries will haunt us!!!
radhikarajen,as usual it is a mix up of religions with tarditions even after conversions.Any way may god bless the couple.
But,it is unfortunate that most of the people would like to make a KICHIDI of sorts,while discussing on a point or topic,by mixing up of
"religions,castes,politics,economics,governance,
history ,geography etc" in the same breath, and go tangentially,instead of staying focussed,as you might have also observed!!!
I have read the history.Living matters little,when we do not know what for we are living!!!
Regarding the teleserial CHANAKYA,NO WHERE IT POINTS TO A "FREE SOCIETY" friend!!!
Dear friend,read my response once again to understand to whom the finger is pointed.
We both hail and live in the same world!!!
APPRECIATED THE FIRST PART MR.Nariman.But your second part deflects the emphasis from the perpetrators of 'double standards'to the people who question it,by branding them as fundamentalists.
This is not correct friend,for the very purpose of your post is defeated!!!
A good administrator could not afford to be impulsive basically friend!!!
It is good as and when it happens!!!
THEIR MAIN CONCEPTS AND OBJECTIVES,away from the dust and din of political games.
In my opinion,both these are meant for the "peace,prosperity,welfare and harmony" of the people and society at large.There is no divergence in this basic philosophy.
Any "ideology" arises only on the 'means' to attain them and all politics revolve around this,to "capture the power over the means".
The power is absolute and the means are limited in meeting the "expectations and aspirations of the people" at all times.
This results in strife,to have a share in the cake and the rest follows unfortunate though.
The question is,when there is convergence both on concepts and objectives,why not on the means too,to bring down the strifes collectively,than enlarging them???
This was what I meant radhikarajen,for the Hindutva agenda has been to unite than divide the people,leading the society towards "Harmony".
The reality is there for all to see friend!!!
MR.Narman,the Hindutva agenda is not confined to only these two issues,which they put on the back burner long back.
Its main plank is to unite Indians specially Hindus who are quite a divided lot,and they largely succeeded,as could be seen!!!
If this could relieve you from tensions,and keep you happy,then the post served its purpose!!!
Welcome!
MR.Nariman,how is it possible when SC has been siezed of the matter???It is a ridiculous proposition friend!!!
In our anxiety to malign always some one,Let us not allow our wild imaginations to fly high friend!!!
Sorry,I did address you wrongly as MR.Nariman,MR.Naradmuni.
My apologies to MR.Nariman as well for this lapse, because both your names start with "Nar"!!!
friend,why don't you go and tell the same to other protestors and agitationists?Did you raise your voice then?Why these "double standards" friend???
A relevant question friend???
MR.Iamtrue,your challenge remains unanswered!!!
Friend,first be clear what precisely is "hinduism" and tell us what it is!!!
Friend,let there be uniform guide lines for appointment of all VCs!!!
friend,all freedoms are the exclusive rights of some previleged few only!!!
radhikarajen,where objectivity and impartiality become casualities,perversity reigns!!!
Friend,it augurs well that people are have more awareness and analytical,in exposing the "double standards" which cause more harm to the society!!!
MR.guru68,you are absolutely right friend!!!
The first challenge she met on"priority" was to suspend "three officers who neglected the PARK, and transfer about a hundred OTHER OFFICIALS" ON THE SAME DAY AFTER HER SWEARING IN!!!
And the people will have a free entertainment!!!
To stand up to fight the ills of their society.
It is clear that their patience is infinite!!!
friends,as long as we discuss only people and not the issues,nothing would change,no matter who is in or out of power!!!
Friend,still she has a long way to go to match and out beat IG as a politician!!!
Friend,the castes and communities are here to stay and cannot be wished away!!!
MR.Nariman,why to post the same message thrice friend???
Friend,we had strong governments with good majorities and srong opposition too earlier.But the development still suffered!!!
It is a good wish list friend!!!
This much was evident when "books,pantings,music,songs,theatres and cinemas" were banned,by the respective goverments, under the pressures of "communalists"of all hues!!!
All such protests and agitations should not be on a selective and elective basis,due to "double standards".People demand that the uniform norms are applied as a matter of rule!!!
MR.Nariman,do not overlook the fact IN ALL PROBABILITY, that its change of strategy of the party midway,as hinted at by MR.RAJNATHSINGH,president of BJP, has culminated in placing the BSP in position,to defeat the common enemies!!!
This reality dawns,on a cool analysis!!!
MR.Nariman,I am not sure whether any realization has set in all for the sake of national interests.
Friend India was divided from day one of our independence and continues to go down the sloppy path.No wonder this division reaches upto panchayat level ultimately,much to our chargin!!!
MR.Nariman,none shed tears when several systems parties and individuals, failed in history!!!
None need shed if what you envisage comes true too!!!
The events move on whether one likes them or not!!!
By joining hands with those very communal forces and Manuvadis,whom she has been crtisisng all the while.
She did not check any communal forces and instead she embrased them!!!
Who knows that this emerging set up, may augur well in future!!!
MR.Nariman,about these much needed electral reforms,we covered the ground on and off.
Let us not forget the fact, that only a single vote mattered,bringing down the NDA government once,unmindful of the fact whether that single vote cast was "legal or illegal"!!!
Any way as I said nothing could be taken for granted in politics and things do happen friend!!!
Victory.It is only a caution not to go overboard!!!
MR.salemsrini,going by the texts,Buddhism started even much earlier before,Gautam Buddha,who came to be known as "Historical Buddha"!!!
This is just for information friend!!!
Friend,the list could be enlarged further.After all name should not matter!!!
Friend,if she could usher in BUDDHISM in U.P,the whole of India, nay the entire world welcomes it friend!!!
SOURCE IS SAME,BUT THE PATHS MAY BE DIFFERENT FRIEND!!!
MR.salemsrini,going by the texts,Buddhism started even much earlier before,Gautam Buddha,who came to be known as "Historical Buddha"!!!
This is just for information friend!!!
You are right friend!!!
MR,Nariman,i was about to pose the same question.It is good you did it!!!
The party has been divided vertically into two camps and it paid the price finally.None need to shed any tears.It reminds one of the story of "JARASANDHA" in the epic "Maha Bharat"!!!
MR.Nariman,did I ever uphold this???
My post above emphasises the same point,if only you care to obseve analytically,instaed of rushing to conclude friend!!!
MR.federer,SINCE THE POLITICS HAVE BEEN COMMERCIALISED,all would like to take up this profession,with a heriditory advantage!!!
MR.Nariman,my post relates to the whole,in which the two catogeries which you mentioned also have been inclded!!!
Is it not very transperent friend???
MR.Nariman,without "confusion" no politics exist any where,since all the politicians thrive on it!!!
Neither they have any clarity or conviction even!!!
Neither those who speak in favour nor those people who oppse it, undestand the true philosophy of HINDUTVA!!!
It is the prerogative of all parties and independent candidates to choose their own symbols.
Friend on your own logic,why cannot congress change its "flag" which resembles the national flag with its "tricolour" and so are the others???
WHO faught the elections on "ideology" basis ever in INDIA friend???
We see thw worst caste based poltics every where and more so in TN friend.Can you deny this???
This is the unambiguous reality.The worst hit are sycophants!!!
It is a different matter that the Media and politicians will project it in a twisted and distorted manner as usual!!!
Any way,it is good in the end, that the people of U.P. are fortunate to get rid of the trend of coailition goverments!!!
MR.Nariman,sailing with and supporting dishonest politicians is no honesty!!!
MR.Nariman,there is a difference between a "conviction,imprisonment,charge and allegation".Hope you would understand it being a sensible man!!!
I find none.Can you bring out that museum piece,if you know, for the benifit of others!!!
radhikaraje,some of our friends are silent or go on softpedalling where others are concerned, while they go full blast only after BJP.
This will do a lot of good!!!
MR.Nariman,you are right.But who bells the cat.Government or LS speaker???
Friend,when people themselves are entrusted with this responsibility,"Fake encounters disappear and the real encounters appear"!!!
Is it not self evident who is burning with jealousy. Do not try to judge OTHERS by your standards!!!
Still I love you dear and have a high tolerance.BTW!!!
-ENCOUNTERS",when people have no faith in the system.
This would be a simple solution to the problem!!!
Friend,your vew point is highly appreciated.It relates to a good governance.But the powers that be will never allow it to happen,for the obvious reasons!!!
Any one friend.Depends on how one perceives it,what a community is!!!
MR.RAJAYE,No response even after two days!!! It only shows,who is talking GIBRISH here. Continue. Wish you all the best!!!
Because each one hates the other group.!!!
MR.RAJAYE,It is quite interesting to read your biography and know you are a great scholar.We all wish you all the best in your life friend.BTW!!!
MR.RAJAYE,Please show me one post of mine,wherein I supported MR.KATARA or for that matter any criminal!!!
MR.RAJAYE,there is nothing personal on this MB FOR WE DO NOT KNOW EACH OTHER!!!
It is only an exchange of views and opinions between the members.
Friend "self aggrandisement and self pity" are not the desirable factors or attitudes for any one.BTW!!!!
Thank you radhikarajen.Well said friend.!!!
Friend,if you prove your allegation,I would quit the MB.If not,are you prepared to do the same???
radhikarajen media feels it is all powerful and not accountable to any one,except may be their masters!!!
Friend,the answers lie in your questions!!!
TO rout it every where.Only then people would understand better the value of their vote!!!
MR.RAJAYE,Who is stopping the concerned to go to the bottom of this scam.
I refered only to my earlier post friend.No reason for you to work up yourself!!!
MR.Nariman,this post of yours is fully filled with love and void of hatred,I suppose.Great friend!!!
MR.RAJAYE,Please show me one post of mine supporting MR.KATARA or any criminal for that matter.
Friend decency forbids me to personalise things and call names.Any way thanks,for your excellent understanding abilities!!!
These are all your wrong inferences and there is nothing I can do!!!
MR.RAJAYE,My initial reaction in this connection as to "WHY THE LS SPEAKER CALLED FOR AN ALL PARTY MEETING ON THIS AFFAIR" has been posted earlier on the MB!!!
There goes a longer tale!!!!
The answer one gets is a big NO!!!
This is mainly due to sycophancy and political divisions among the "executive" front,which is supposed to stand up and act impartially!!!
What is this strange logic friend?
The comparisons will not help.All such acts are highly condemnable and punishable,irrespective of parties involved!!!
MR.Iamtrue,blissfully,he is not the home minister of the state.Now that it is clear,it is a much bigger pass port racket,involving MPs & MLAs from all other states as well,The centre needs to institute a CBI enquiry immidietly!!!
MR.Nariman,thank you for your agreement,which is what I have been trying to drive home on the MB!!!
IF WE WANT TO RAISE A NEW BUILDING INVARIABLY WE HAVE TO DEMOLISH THE OLD ONE!!!
Let the people watch,to which calss their elected representatives belong and whose interests they are taking care of!!!
very true friend!!!
TO form the governments on their own,instead of going through either prepoll or post poll alliances with unlike partners,which adds to the miseries of the people!!!
Why confidential.It should be made public for the people to understand better and vote accordinly!!!
friend,this stands duly answered by me on the other board.
Any way we agreed earlier several times,that all parties are "oppurtunists" only without exception.Is it not???
MR.Nariman,I happened to answer this question on the other board just now.Please go through friend!!!
radhikaraje,you said it friend.quite right.It is a sorry state of affairs,after the so called elections,the manipulations start where people have no say,in these formulations.
Yet the manipulators who brokers a majority, call it as "people's mandate"!!!
This mandate is understandable to a great extent, if it is a "pre poll affair" but not as a post poll affair!!!
Is it only political "oppurtunism" or any thing else???
Having joined their forces,what is this talk of a "Third front on and off"???
MR.RAJAYE,What I say is the links are much deeper and should be exposed and the whole bunch of culprits should be brought to book and awarded the extreme punishments under the law!!!
MR.Nariman,the name in the second line should be read as MR.RMaran!!!
Dear MR.RAJAYE,Probably he answered your first line of the topic posted by you, as it seems!!!
MR.RAJAYE,IT does not require any effort to understand that the criminals and killers do not need supports,in their indulgence.
This supports would come later,depending on the links,as and when they are caught!!!
MR.Lalitjha,most of our educated people are accustomed to see through the westren eyes and think the stuff dished out by them is the original and factual in all acses!!!
For they happened to be breeding centres of corruption.
They are being elected to render selfless service to the people,but not to service themselves!!!
TRUE FRIEND.All are possible!!!
friend,sure they are focusing on their development!!!
MR.RAJAYE,why to post the same message on different boards friend???
MR.Nariman,who founded the HINDU and HINDUISM religion and when as aper you?
Wonder why MR.Nariman has not answered this question too!!!
MR.lavarajkumar,all countries have laws,not necessarily being democratic!!!
MR.Nariman,atleast the Gujarat government has complied with the directions,unlike the uncivilised reactions from others in the OBC verdict friend!!!
Pass on this discredit too where it is due!!!
MR.RMaran,as we all know that the "caste system" is integral with "Hinduism"which in your opinion is a religion,and all those who support it are communal.Fine.
But please tell us honestly,when all the parties supporting the caste based reservations, without exception,would it not amount to supporting the "communalists",specially when some want, it should be extended to castes of other religions,when no other religion has a caste system???
What is this paradox and contradiction friend???
MR.Nariman,if we are destroyed who will be the benificiary???
MR.RAJAYE,What is "Hindutva movement"???
My dear firend MR.RAJAYE,how come aggression and peace coexist???
MR.RMaran,according to you what do the words "HINDU,HINDUISM AND HINDUTVA" mean friend???
In INDIA,Whose main "concept" being the well being of all!!!
MR.RAJAYE,for your kind information all "ISMs" are cenralised only!!!
How are you sure,for, all exit polls predicted a hung assembly???
Provided most of them have one!!!
All presumptions are possible in political formulations!!!
Every thing is fair, in love and war(elections)!!!
Mayavati wants to change the Manuvadi system into "Mayawadi" system.After all what is there in a name!!!
It was BSP which offered about 130 seats to brahmins to contest on its ticket!!!
Why not the self interests and caste factors friend???
Keeping BJP out of power will be the single point CMP,which suits all others!!!
If this is the condition with merited people,well imagine what would be the condition with all unmerited people!!!
MR.Iamtrue,this is what happens when self interests take prcedence over the people's or nation's interests!!!
MR.RAJAYE,both have alsmost faded in INDIA(HINDUSTAN) from the minds of the people friend!!!
friend,the modern science and technology have introduced even "one legged kursis".
We are sailing through 21st century!!!
Dear rubynaushad,it is good the gujarat police have arrested three of its senior police officers,after the probes,by their CID!!!
It should contain statewise details for the last 20 years, with regard to:-
1.How many took place as reported yearwise.
2.How many were proved as genuine and
what are the punishments given.
3.How many security/police personnel and
militants were killed/injured
4.How were their families rehabilitated.
This information would educate the peple better as to the gravity of the situation with which the country is confronted with!!!
JOIN THE THIRD OR FOURTH FRONT,to find out what you would look to be!!!
MR.RAJAYE,then why our country is being called as INDIA instead of HINDUSTAN and why are the people called as INDIANS instead of HINDUSTANIS???
MR.RAJAYE,It is fine.But friend,what is the difference between "Hindustans & Indians"???
If it is ensured,politicians know fully well that their days are numbered with enlightenment and empowerment of people!!!
This slogan of quotas is used only to lull the people,by those who wants to thrive at the cost of the people!!!
we call it social justice,when the people have the same oppurtunities,to grow in all fields in an healthy environment!!!
Since the governments failed to provide them even after 60 years of our independence,we are speaking about the
MR.Nariman,all sorts of crimes and conspiracies happen in darknessand behind the scenes,in any regime,except those which are impulsive in nature.
All are "honourable" till they are caught with their pants down,friend!!!
MR.Nariman,still in both the cases,you need investigation,filing of chargesheets,trials in courts up and down,and one cannot do any thing till the final verdict is given.
Friend,we all know even where we have the final verdict from SC,we are unable to implement it.
Friend,you are speaking about an event,and I am trying to explain the judicial process,which prevents an instant justice!!!
This is all the difference in our approches,the problem being the same!!!
friends,who is wearing those sarees now???
From this we all can understand the "craze" for sarees!!!
This is on the lighter vein to relieve the tensions and no offence meant friends!!!
MR.Nariman,any one adopting the double standards is only a HYPOCRITE!!!
Friend,this appears so in arhuements due to affinity problems.But as we can see we all stand for "good governance".
Let us all be happy that there is no divergence on this fundamental point!!!
MR.Iamtrue,please see my response to our friend MR.Nariman,which applies to your question too!!!
We all agree on the basics!!!
Dear friend MR.RAJAYE,you are right!!!
Yes I do.But what is un-understandable is why this govt,has not been dismissed following the SC verdict!!!
Any reasons in not acting friend!!!
mr.Nariman,you are absolutely right.
My only request is not to do it selectively and with relative comparisons,when all are sailing in the same boat friend!!!
MR.Nariman,if what you say is correct,what is the fun,in asking the NDA/UPA,leader to prove his majority on the floor of the house by the PRESIDENT,within a stipulated time set by him???
MR.saisrini,except Vivekananda,the other four personalities you mentioned,do not fit into the the word "HINDU",for they relate to different religions!!!
However your creative concept is very much appreciated friend!!!
MR.Nariman,yet Mulayam's SP was the largest single party,which was given the first oppurtunity to form the government and prove the majority,on the floor of the house,going by the convention and precedents as well,which it did.
MR.Nariman,your one sided and prejudicial views,lack conviction!!!
How do we expect it to be a HOLY COW,when it carries all the stink of the society!!!
MR.Iamtrue,though we all know the game,it should not mean,we support the corruption/commercialisation of politics and elections,taking sides.
People should persist with their campaign to bring in the much "needed reforms",to throw these evil practices!!!
MR.RAJAYE,In all such cases punishment should be awarded,by setting up "speed courts" all over the country.
The expenditure part should be debited to the A/C of the concerned panchayats/zps/municipalities,where from the dispute arose.These costs could be collected later fully,from the party who looses!!!
This could be the best way of ensuring speedy justice,for justice delayed is justice denied!!!
These are some suggestions for consideration by all those that matter!!!
MR.Nariman,corruption is an evil and should be tackeled,in its entirity.Let the people rise as one to fight it out from all fields of our lives.
What is the use of drawing charts of comparison friend!!!
This will not lead us any where!!!
MR.Nariman,what is wrong with that? this convention is followed by all and ask the leader to prove the majority on the floor of the house,in line with the past court judgements!!!
This is how both NDA & UPA formed the governments at the centre too.Is it not???
MR.Nariman,MR.RAJAYE is addressing all INDIAN citizens(Known as Hindus in the past),excluding none and including all.
Let us take it in the right spirit friend!!!
You are right MR.Arun.Nothing useful would come out of such negative reporting except hatred!!!
The media often reports only the effect leaving the cause behind unfortunately,may be to serve their interests!!!
FRIEND,We can only have one of them at the cost of the other!!!
MR.Nariman,does this mean,that people could "indulge in high corruption and all sorts of crimes" till they are caught with pants down???
MR.RMaran,the congress started "TO PLAY ON THE AYODHYA"issue for political gains,which was later hijacked by BJP.
Friend can you deny this.Hope to get an honest reply from you!!!
They all deserve it.But friend why the double standards???
MR.Nariman,your sairical post is appreciated.But friend,BJP is doing a great service to the nation,even then.Is it not???
MR.Nariman,what is it you precisely wanted to convey?
MR.Nariman,DID I OBJECT??
The fact of the matter is "Muslim league exists" and extends its support both at the state and central levels!!!
So are others friend!!!
They are not above the laws and their freedom is not absolute!!!
MR.RMaran,firstly,BJP is not a religion.It is a political party just like any other.All political parties thrive mostly on the borrowed
concepts/precepts,irrespective of the sources.
Secondly,friend it is clear from my post that the "religious objectives" are different from the
"political objectives".The only common factor in both the cases are the people who are involved.
This aspect of involvement, leads to their "convergences and divergences" depending upon the perceptions of the people,in any given situation!!!
May be social justice is found in hell!!!
A sensible suggestion!!!
True!!!
"TALENT" our politicians have it aplenty,that serves the country for generations!!!
The caste system is a deep rooted cancer and we know the result.
Friend,if you take any government application,it has columns of "religion and caste" invariably to be filled in.
If this is the case how can any one forget his affinity,when one is reminded constantly about it???
NO wonder and the day may not be far off!!!
Friend we have only few honest citizens!!!
Friend,but no government is able to understand this basic point!!!
MR.raspri,no two minds are equal!!!
MR.saisrini,such foolish games may provide them with short term gains,but in the long run would ruin the society.
It is high time for people to wake up early and act upon to curb these tendencies!!!
MR.Iamtrue,Hindutva as a way of life continues to flow,unmindful of the things which it carries!!!
MR.RMaran,in other words,it is obvious that "religious precepts/concepts unite,while those of politics divide"!!!
To motivate and lead the people,one needs a common objective in any field friend!!!
You are right friend!!!
The infant democracy of ours is slowly maturing!!!
radhikarajen,all political parties,be it national or regional want to survive only on divisive issues,forgetting the survival of the nation and its people.
This in turn led to "oppurtuistic politics",for power at any cost.
In this process, the principles of providing an honest and good governance for the betterment of the people,have become the casualities.!!!
MR.rebel,a good quote from an "idealist"!!!
MR.rebel,should it matter as long as we prefer to remain where we are???
Friend,democratic principle demands to honour the majority.
The rest of your post is "irrelevant"!!!
MR.Nariman,I thought you would be unbiased and I was wrong.
Well,we all can have our own perceptions and there is nothing wrong.
But to play the same wornout audio or visual, endlessly,are both jarring and boring!!!
Friend,when did BJP discord its "hindutva agenda" friend,to return to it???
Then hang them if you can!!!
MR.Nariman,this is how the provocative statements come from for just propaganda purposes!!!
To have strong money,mustle or political power is "no offence" by itself and there are so many in the world who possess them!!!
When "culprits" are booked none objects friend!!!!
FRIENDS THERE ARE IDENTIFIED GOVERNMENT AGENCIES TO LOOK INTO ALL SUCH VIOLATIONS AND CRIMES!!!
This is just a meaningless talk,to malign one or the other,with no supporting data,which serves no purpose,except indulging in "Gobelasian propaganda"!!!
A good counter question.
MR.Nariman,whose silence you are speaking about..
.."ED'S",which should look into these aspects.
The people have a right to file a PIL in HC/SC.Why were they silent???
It applies for all MR.Nariman and in all situations.
Friend we can have differing opinions but not persisting prejudices in judging one!!!
friend,all parties profess the same liberalised economic policies in several countries,inclding RUSSIA AND CHINA.
This is no pledging MR.Nariman!!!
All governments take decisions based on the facts of a prevailing situation.
The current ongoing drama on OBC reservations is one such case,right or wrong!!!
MR.Nariman,did I use the term "appeasement"any where in my post???
Friend why are you tring put words in my mouth???
This is most unfair friend!!!
MR.Nariman "promising the moon is different from complying with the promice"!!!
Policies when translated into actions only would be appreciated by all,not when they are announced "N" number of times,through the blaring "Loud speakers" without any result.
At best they may only cause high "noise pollution" friend!!!
MR.Nariman,IT dept is taking care of all those matters,specially with UPA at the helm!!!
Under the circumstances,none could call it a scandal!!!
But friend,why this provocative post now???
Friend "if you have any facts",you can pass them on to the concerned quarters for their prompt action!!!
If not, you stand exposed fully!!!
MR.Nariman,it is the same position in all countries mostly,specially in the "under developed" ones!!!
Needs no further comments!!!
radhikarajen,with the result,that all can take pride that INDIA got rid of caste system.!!!
It is an excellent approch!!!
SHOULD IT MATTER,WHEN ONE IS IN THE CONFINES FRIEND???
MR.Nariman,sorry to say that this is what happens,when one is colour blind!!!
MR.Nariman,is it not the same case with all other political aprties.
If,they could have remembered the plight of all unfortunate sections,all through,our country would have progressed much faster by now.!!!
So friend there is nothing to glorify one or condemn the other as they belong to the same class.!!!
Friend,words fail him!!!
No politician can comes any where near to him even to compare friend!!!
Correct.But the unfortunate part starts as they grow,willing to be fully conditioned,by a faith,dogma or self interests friend!!!
Yet,You do not want the castes to disappear???
Sounds funny friend!!!
MR.Naradmuni,we Indians, as most honest people submit our IT returns and hence have no fears,for your golden bricks should have been duly accounted for.
Given the oppurtunity,the opponents of the people whom you listed,would not waste even a single second,to book them as culprits!!!
Well said friend.
MR.Nariman.it is just like asking a child,"IS YOUR FATHER AT HOME" or asking" is your mother's husband at home"!!!
None need a certificate from the other,in the present day context.It is a free for all game friend.None is a holy angel!!!
But the trouble arises only one thinks only (s)/he is an angel,and all others are devils!!!BTW!!!
friend,it could be within the same system or with a different system!!!
MR.Nariman,a good question friend.
When it is said a way of life,this only pertains to a desirable characterstic to be aimed at with absolute freedom,to follow one's own life.
This does not say,all are angels or devils.Human nature being what it is,mostly it follows the NEWTONS Law,that each and every action has its equal and opposite reaction!!!
Friend we know pretty well,socialogy apart,equality does not exist any where.
This is where and how the "humanity" started getting divided,with varied cults,faiths,theories and what not.
The principle is same for this divisive nature,from which the disagreements and conflicts arose friend!!!
MR.Nariman,the topic relates to "recent communal out breaks" not of future friend!!!
When "X" speaks it is communal and when "y" speaks on the same topic it is not communal.We call it as "opposing communalism"
Only the voice differs friend,the content being the same!!!
Unless we come out of these double standards application,things would remain the same!!!
MR.agniputra,would very much like to know,as to who is promoting this "much talked about MANUWADI system" FRIEND.
IF ONLY YOU CARE TO KNOW THE RECENT CONCLAVE OF ALL POLITICAL PARTIES,convened by the PM himself,would prove who are all the real culprits.
Wish MR.P'ROY should have attended it as a special invitee,that enables him to run a serial on his channel!!!
would be counting the currency notes to strike a balance sheet!!!
MR.Nariman,your title is quite true.But what is your precise compliant friend,despite the friendly actions taken in F/O muslims during BJP's tenure???
They only performed,while all others have been paying them just lip sympathies,all through,going by your own admissions!!!
difficult for one gets framed up!!!
you can formulate it and christein it too friend!!!
radhikarajen,let us see what the next five rounds would throw up in U.P elections!!!
The final round of manipulations would start only after that,relegating these elections to the backgound!!!
MR.Rao,the society wants it that way only.Do not worry friend,we have already reached the 70% in reservations.
Very shortly we will make all out efforts to make it 100% on priority friend!!!
friend,that is what all political parties want to consolidate their interests!!!
A full cycle of all the four yugas friend!!!
A welcome shower friend!!!
But our society is both deaf and blind to enjoy it unfortunately!!!
Why not???
It is unfair friend.Best thing is to place them in all urban centers,specially in all corporate hospitals,where they could serve the ultimate cause of the humanity!!!
friend,this is a far cry in the jungles!!!
Friend your observation of the 'drop outs' is absolutely true,and the government should appoint a commission to come up with an analytical data,"castewise,sectwise,subsectwise,religionwise,regionwise,languagewise and genderwise etc" with its proper recommendations,for study by GOMs before it comes before parliament for due deliberations/discussions,to enact a suitable law,which would come up before the judiciary,for its final disposal,after going through several channels!!!
Sure you should be bewildered about the lengthy process,but that is the reality friend!!!
By now you should have understood why there are so many drop outs,whose count we do not even know,leave alone the reasons for it!!!
Friend we may have to wait for the good day for the right mindset people in all the four pillars of democracy!!!
MR.RAJAYE,Wish they could easily garner the support of another 25-30 MPs,to constitute a single largest party,which would enable them to form the government at the centre,with inside and outside support!!!
No entry for others into reserved compartments please!!!
Friend,from what is said,either it has never been the intention of GOD,lest he might be bored,or simply GOD does not exist!!!
FRIEND 'POWER' IS THE ONLY GOAL OF EVERY POLITICIAN!!!
friend all say the hatred is bad pointing a fingure at others.
We all talk/preach and never practice it mostly!!!
Friend,if I remember right the SC gave a verdict on the "Hindutva" which relates to a culture and way of life and nothing to do with a religion.
BJP is trying to preserve it while others oppose it,may be due to an alien cultural invasion.
In other words it means that the former is traditional and conservative,while the later is ultra modern.
Fashions frequently change in a cycle friend!!!
MR.RAJAYE,Which recent outbreaks of communal violence are you refering to friend???
MR.Billy,when all parties are miserable failures,it is time to start and experiment with a new outfit!!!
My congrats for your endless optimism MR.lalitjha.
You are right when you say that the developmental issues should be talked about.
But all this you would find in election manifestos of political parties only, with sveral IFs and Buts.
They might not have been seen and under stood even by their leaders,not to speak of their followers and public at large!!!
A simple mathematical solution friend,on the finger tips of every politician!!!
Friend,all politicians have been showing it since independence!!!
radhikarajen,one's own living is of paramount concern for one and all other things are secondary!!!
True friend.This is the same case with all political paries,as seen from the concensus arrived after the recent meeting convened by PM!!!
Friend,education is different from culture,The environment has a bearing on both.It is not that all educated people have broad minds.
It could happen the otherway round as you mentioned in your list rigtly!!!
MR.salemsrini,to keep people ignorant is their job to fortify their positions.
It is for people to come out of this darkness!!!
We will only teach or prech.
WE DO NOT NEED ANY FURTHER LEARNING,AS WE ARE SATURATED!!!
It is there for all to see and experience. Needs no further comments!!!
Friend,this is the same case every where.It is not save the agricultural land,but to have hefty compensation package.Give it then all is would be well!!!
Friend,the former was a "speculation" by all and sundry and the later was a "fact" which came out after the CBI investigation!!!
We are going to have several "Nandigrams" every where in future friend!!!
WHICH WAS NOT THE CASE EARLIER!!!!
quite right friend!!!
MR.sameer,all rulers divide the society both horizantally and vertically,to perpetuate their rule!!!
We the people have to come out of this dynastic rule concept and mind set of sycophancy!!!
MR.mukesh,history tells us,people led a golden life during that time friend!!!
Friend,when they do not know how to do it,how can they talk about it???
Worry not friend! Government hospitals will take care certainly!!!
MAY benifit the party,due to a backlash!!!
You would be the first person to congratulate me as and when it takes place,and that previlege is reserved for you friend!!!
All is fair in love and politics!!!
friend,who decides this during the encounter and how???
radhikarajen,your last sentence tells it all friend!!!
These politicians show up off and on, only to prove that they could face the "arc lights",to satisfy their bloated egos!!!
MR.saisrini,peace in absolute term never existed in this world and not even in our homes for that matter!!!
It is a reality friend!!!
You are right friend.All humans have the same blood as classified!!!
Friend,each country has its laws and lessons.We should always live in the present,but not in the past and so be the case with future.
This is a "reverse march" in time scale!!!
you are absolutely right friend!!!
friend,laws are always tougher/stronger when implemented!!!
We do not lack them friend!!!
friend,you mean that this is a ready mix fast food to be served!!!
MR.Nariman,you are right friend.But this "distributive growth" has to reckon with essentially two main factors:
1.The fact that all can not contribute in the same manner,the oppurtunities extended being the same.
2.The society/government should develop more revenues and reserves for the welfare measures and other related developmental programmes,to cover such handicapped sections,and still motivate them to achieve some thing or the other,in line with their tastes!!!
To accomplish this,the society/government need to heavily reduce their overheads and divert the same to all such productive
programmes!!!
Last but not the least,thre should be no room to encourage laziness or sustenence on subsidies,though there could be some cases,to consider on humane grounds!!!
MR.Nariman,my earlier post was wrongly addressed,I suppose.
These words "inclusive growh and exclsive growth etc" sound hollow,when we have a stinted growth,which lacks both vision and direction.
We all know that ROME was not built in a day,as though all other things could be built.
All these activities need a cool,calm and unbiased approch.
It should be a cohesive and collective one(partcipative) with absolute committment,in the process of development friend!!!
MR.Iamtrue,whom was he blaming for his(the EC's) derilictions of duties???
We all too can sermonise,with out practice!!!
QUITE true friend!!!
MR.saisrini,no government both at centre and states,have any cohesive planning perspectives and their implementation,is the root cause for such haphazard development and migrations.
Till we have a well adminstered executive and good governance in place,the people of to put up with all such ills and nothing could be done about it!!!
MR.Iamtrue,all this only means,that we do not have the sence of proportion to bring in a good government!!!
A good question.Better next census is conducted on the basis of "class"population wise,agewise and genderwise!!!
MR.Nariman,who is twisting by mixing up class with caste.
You should have mentioned who are that deceivers and hypocrites,so that people would know it friend!!!
radhikarajen,you are right.The word "NATIONAL" has lost its relevance in the murky polics!!!
friend,as your post reveals "one loves onself the most" even if one is the ugliest!!!
MR.goshar,a relevant point in an irrelevant scenario that continues in an endless time!!!
MR.Nariman,the meaning of"growth" in ecnomics is different.
The words "inclusive or exclusive or preclusive etc" fall in the domain of "politics"!!!
Friend,the practices in this regard dates back to the begining of the past,if we care to know!!!
MR.Nariman,the statement of MK is meant to safegaurd the 69% quota sytem in TN specially after the stay from SC.
As for the purpotrted CD,the EC has already taken action and the hearing is adjourned to wednesday.If BJP is found guilty,appropriate action could always be taken friend!!!
Now the EC may have to prove that its application of the laws and norms are consistent and uniform!!!
Aptly put it friend!!!
Friend,I would have loved to part with it had I got one.
one should understand the satire to enjoy it!!!
MR.teej,first one's negligence has to be established.The punishment follows next!!!
radhikarajen,wonder what could wake us up from the deep slumber???
This apathy baffles any sensible one!!!
Friend,responsibility and answerability go with a system,in a set pattern.It is not that every tax payer can pull one by the collor!!!
Well said friend.This an ideal to be achieved!!!
MR.salemsrini,the 21st sloka under 3rd chapter in GITA atly applies for all times.
It is the mix up of "spiritualism and socialism" that causes unwarranted confusion in the minds of the people,due to overlapping of certain given standards,to ensure an evenly and orderly systems for the good of the people,from time to time!!!
Quite true friend!!!
friend,let us be optimists at all times.Here is a quote:"one need not be great to start some thing. Start some thing to be great".
This gives us a hope!!!
Quite true friend!!!
radhikarajen,we have seen in politics,each party/group,tries to paint the other in black.But people are watchful and they are the ultimate deciders friend!!!
it is how they spin their money friend. We can see this from the way several educational institutions springing up with no quality in imparting education!!!
Ofcourse yes,MR.Nariman!!!
It matters little whether it is "crude or sophisticated".It is the offence that matters!!!
MR.Nariman,my answer always remain the same.Apply the laws and rules uniformly,but not selectively.
Earlier,aganist your poser of applying this norm "only to BJP" as the matters stand,I only added that it may strengthen them!!!
Trust this clarifies friend!!!
MR.rebel it is fine then,for the convergence!!!
Friend,your honesty is never in question.BTW!!!
MR.rebel,none of us is a recluse and this is the reality.
Friend,when you refered to the shastras,the word "BRAHMAN" relates to the "INTELLECTUAL"(ENLIGHTENED) who is supposed to perceive,analyse,discriminate and give the direction for the right action,for the good of the "humanity/society".
Friend we know, all can think and only a few discriminates with eqanimity!!!
Let this word "BRAHMAN" not be mixed up with the one in vogue by birth,for the original principle and concept had altogether a "different connotation"
Regarding the "varnas" we could discuss seperately,if you and all wish so friend,for they were later concepts evolved from the principle,which should not be mixed up friend!!!BTW!!!
MR.rebel,you lost nothing friend!!!
MR.rebel,appreciate your fond wish,which is equally shared and hope it would materialise soon friend!!!
MR.rebel,may I draw your kind attention to the "slokas in Gita" vide NOs 29,30 and 31 of the 6th chapter,that pronounces 'equality and equanimity',applicable to all at all times,excluding none!!!
This once again I am trying to bring to your notice,not that you are not aware of them,for herein lies the "principle" that draws no distinction even between animate and inanimate things friend.BTW!!!
This goal should be unification of the society and developing it as a "beautiful garden"!!!
Happy the "heads of the muths" are visiting the dalitwadas to erase the impression of "Untouchability",which has been in vougue!!!
Hope this would be followed up with missionary zeal, in building the best schools/educational institutions, hospitals, and recreation facilities etc, for all to join in the village/town/city,which are very essential,for living together as members of the same family!!!
When I say this, all without exception from even the other religions should as well be the active participative members in this mission of upliftment of the society for good without exception!!!
MR.rebel,while thanking you for remembering us,we badly miss "the message part" of this post friend!!!
Who denies this fact friend! It should be so at all times.Some disagreements apart,our goal remains the same.BTW!!!
radhikarajen,the former has takers for this is a branded product,while the later goes by several unsaleble brands,on the reverse side of the same coin!!!
Hence the "LONG LIVE" slogans and "DOWN WITH" the cries have become the worst "noise polluters".
It wii be interesting to watch "which lives and what goes down"!!!
MR.SAYPNK,The government's responsibilty does not end with just making a policy on paper.It is to be followed up with plans executions and reviews.
It is equally the job of government to take stringent steps to root out corruption!!!
radhikarajen,in short, it is very poor governance,if not bad!!!
MR.salemsrini,External affairs fall under the "exclusive puerview" of the central government!!!
It is very unfortunate MR.Nariman!!!
MR.rebel,if only you care to know, it has been only "BRAHMANS" who consistently advocated about the "euality" and that there has never been like a "duality or plurality"!!!
Friend you know the " principle concept" is different from a practice(s) arisen from a "system or systems" fromm time to time!!!
We also know the systems are always debatable,while the principle remains the same!!!BTW!!!
MR.rebel,you have not yet answered my questions friend.What is the matter???
MR.Arun,it is not possible for SC rulings are there.
We have been a poor country earlier.It should not matter now, even if we are called differently!!!
We love peace so much.
Nothing which is "transitory" ever disturbs us, for we know that all this is only an "illusion"!!!
friend,the world itself is misused and equality does not exist any where,except in constitutions!!!
Friend,reservations as such will not cost much, as compared to educate them!!!
You know ours is a very poor country!!!
Friend,he washed his hands after setting in the laws of nature in motion,and went into a deep meditation!!!
Friend,may be our ancestors are "owls" who knows!!!
Friend,our political leaders or politicians,do think that they alone has have "+ or -" thoughts,by birth, to guide the destiny of the people and what not!!!
Friend,don't you think that the third and fourth surveys,may bring forward "others into focus" for garnering the benifits.
Learnt that about 90 OBC groups are holding a big rally and gathering which would be attended by the CM of A.P!!!
MR.Iamtrue,the SC/ EC may initiate the necessary steps to "derecognize" all such political aprties,who inflame the communal tensions,WITH THEIR PROVOCATIVE actions/speeches!!!
The laws are there waiting to be enforced!!!
friend,you have reasons probably to base your apprehensions.
The way people are slowly graduating themselves to sustain democracy,as seen from the election results from time to time,gives us all a ray of hope!!!
MR.salemsrini,he did not blame the doctors squarely friend.
While the agony of the patient and anxiety of the relatives are quite understandable,the doctors as such should not be targetted,for an unfortunate demise of the patient.
The patient's health condition,before one is brought to the doctor/hospital and the medical assistance rendered are more relevant too!!!
ofcourse true and none intends even friend!!!
friend,efficiency is a factor that covers all in comparison!!!
MR.rebel,please state clearly what is "karma",before we go any further???
MR.Nariman,the population of china is religious,whether state owned religion does not exist.Most of them are "BUDDHISTS"
Friend for your information,The following information is furnished,based on the data of 2005,which proves that the believers far exceed the non believers.
1.CHRISTANS.....33%
2.ISLAM.........21%
3.HINDUISM......14%
4.BUDDHISM.......6%
5.CHINESE
TRADITIONAL.....6%
6.PRIMAL..........6%
7.SIKHISM........O.36%
8.JAINISM........O.22%
9.REST TRADITINAL
&
NON-RELIGIOUS..13.42%
Trust this confirms that the believers cross the mark of 90%,if not more friend!!!BTW!!!
MR.rebel,a small correction.We are slaves of our own stagnant "mind sets" friend!!!
MR.rebel,initiate what?Friend after all the Brahmins constitute hardly about 3% in a population of about one billion+.
Is it not surprising, that there is a heavy rush for competetion for caste based reservations including the minorities,in whose faiths no caste system exists???
Why should all political aprties and governments abet this historical blunder,as propagated,continue it and perpetuate it.???
MR.Iamtrue,these aspects are the parts of the same body and their functioning should always be integrated and well co-ordinated!!!
It is not necessary always one is at the cost of the other.Industrialisation also means,it could be agriculture oriented too,processing its produce.
We lack proper concepts and have only kneejerk reactions on an adhoc basis.
This is where lies the confusion causing problems too frequently!!!
friend,there happens to be a time lag of minimum three months that disabled his partcipation probably!!!!
MR.Nariman,socialism does not mean that all things should lie in one sector or the other.
This only aims at a mixed economy in raising the living standards of the society.We know this living standard happens to be the highest in a socialist country like netherlands.
What ultimately matters is the good governance and honest people with committment for a cause friend!!!
MR.salemsrini,we all know that knowledge is power and how can we call it educational pollution,when aiming higher?
Yes, I do agree that the education has to be tailored to suit various fields and levels.
This is where an analytical approch is needed on the datas,which should be realistic,lest we are bound to falter!!!
TRUE FRIEND!!!
MR.Nariman,these points are pivotal and should be the focus of attention for dovetailing the plans and perspectives.
We should have a road map and priorities with clearcut targets to be achieved with in a time frame.
Friend,the Indian psyche appears to be confused at all times.You are right we launch ourselves,with out proper analysis on an adhoc basis with regrets later!!!
THE HOSPITALS EITHER EXISTING OR TO COME IN BASICALLY???
1.Do we have these hospitals in each town and villages?
2. Have these hospitals been provided with the minimum if not the standard modern equipments,labs surgical theatres,beds etc?
3.Have these hospitals been provided with the necessary manpower both medical,paramedical and other supporting staff,to maintain and man with suitable accomodation provided for them?
4.Have these hospitals been provided with the requsite medicines/vaccines etc, and their regular replinishments,before they are exausted at the minimum inventry level of each?
5.Have the government provided each hospital both in towns and villages,with ambulances suitably equipped to render the first aid by the competent staff,and to rush the patients to to the hospitals in time.?
6.have the citizens been provided with regular medical history cards,to enable the quick diagnosis and ensure the treatment/
7.Last but not the least,what should be the "doctor-patient ratio" as per norms,with the necessary staffing patterns and what is the exact position as existing to day and as envisaged for future,within a fixed time frame???
If any of these are wanting well,people would know,where the negligence lies to start with."THE MEDIA HAS A SPECIAL ROLE,IN EXPLORING THE SITUATIONS IN THE FIELD,AND HIGHLIGHT THEM,AND ALL THE RIGHTS ACTIVIST GROUPS/NGOs AND THE GOVERNMENTS TO PURSUE THEM TO THEIR LOGICAL END AT ALL TIMES,FOR IMPROVING THE MATTERS WITH PERIODICAL REVIEWS AT REGULAR INTERVALS"
IT IS NOT THAT ALL WAKE UP IN THE END, ONLY TO DESTROY THE PROPERTIES AND ASSAULT THE STAFF,GIVING VENT TO THEIR FEELINGS AT THE DEMISE OF THEIR KITH AND KIN,UNFORTUNATELY!!!
EVERY STATE HAS BEEN EXPERIENCING THIS "CRISIS",with heavy powercuts every day,where by both the agricultural and industrial production are effected???
Where did our planning go wrong???
It is good friend!!!
MR.Nariman,any project that aids the enhancements of agriccultural extents and their outputs friend,like a "DAM" across the river, for example!!!
Friend,the input costs have been raising for all without exception!!!
AMONG THE MEMBERS OF THE FAMILY FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION,THE SUM TOTAL OF THE LAND REMAINING THE SAME???
How do we enhance the cultivable land,with out disturbing the ecology???
Is this fragmentation of land,leading to an uneconomical productivity,landing the farmers in steep debts to make their both ends meet???
What other means would suppliment the low income of the farmers in this regard.
Members may contribute their valuble thoughts,for improvement of the plight of the farmers in this context!!!
radhikarajen wish there could have been a larger and better partcipation,on the topic.
Well what we need is "quality and not quantity" in the discussions, to make them more meaningful any way!!!
radhikarajen,laws of karma are not fatalistic friend,as you also mentioned.
When we say an "effort" can change the situation,it is again "karma i.e;action" again.
This inclination to make an effort also flows from karma alone.
Not making an effort is also a "karma i.e; action again".Even to think is also a karma.
In a nutshell,all thoughts,actions,reactions and inactions are all "karmas"only friend!!!
These laws of "karma" have been fully accepted by all oriental philosophers over the times!!!
radhikarajen,this is what precisely what I tried to drive home the point several times!!!
But to my surprise,I found,the very "caste based dalits" who moan about the "Manuvadi system"(as they call),refuse to forgo their identity.
On the other hand,it amusing when religion is added to these caste based reservations,under the banner of "dalits" supported by all the political parties and more so by the "LEFTISTS",the peculiar combination of "class & caste" took shape like "sikhandi or Hijra"!!!
All condemn these "caste" system and yet none is prepared to forego their identity or affliation with it.
This is more farcical friend!!!
Why friend???
MR.Nariman,I was speaking about its original or subsequent expansion and development friend.Is it not at the cost of "forests",the cultivable lands took shape???
Is it not disturbing the ecology and warming up???
Why no objections were raised then,by these agriculturists and others friend???
MR.Nariman,assembly is not that easy as you imagine.It is more complicated than producing a component friend!!!
MR.Nariman,we are all in a competetive world.Whether to survive or not is one's choice.
We also have these SSIs in other countries progressing without compromising on "quality"!!!
If others could achieve it why not us friend???This is what we call a level field.
We Indians want huge profits,without ensuring the required quality from the customers.We know a lot of exported consignments are turned down and sent back exactly for this reason!!!
Why should it not be the same case with SSIs,where certain products have been exclusively reserved for them in procurement,keeping away the large scale industries???
MR.NARIMAN,IS IT THE FAULT OF 'FEDERER' TO WIN???
But the question is whether MR.Leander reaches the final to play aganist him in the first place???
MR.Nariman,these are no answers to my straight questions!!!
Why are you side stepping the issue???
Please provide answers honestly!!!
MR.Nariman,please name a single "agricultural project" conceived or completed between 1970 till date!!!
Also name a few PSUs in the industrial sector,during the same period!!!
Where is our planning and co-ordination in execution,commensurate with the population growth,which should have been envisaged!!!
Well said friend!!!
Friend,your last sentense is more valid,the rest being the same more or less in all countries,specially the commercialisation aspects!!!
Friend,if your contention is that INDIA would be attacked simaltaneously by all those forces you mentioned,one more should not matter.
The brave dies only once and the cowards die every second!!!
Have no fears friend.india can take care of itself!!!
Friend,it should be the combined effort,of all nations to eliminate it.
This calls for a will and perfect coordination with exchange of intellegence well in time,between the international community!!!
Let us not forget the fact that these groups always receive the support of the vested interests, world wide!!!
A good job done by the police,but...???
The mission of Maqsood Ahmed,the agent is to recruit youths for organising 'jehadi activities' in the city,Gujarat and Somalia!!!
One of the options is to "treat the terrorists",
with all comforts and hospitality!!!
Even Bagladesh acted speedily and hanged the terrorists as per the judgement!!!
WHICH MEANS,that you are only trying to argue,without facts, to substantiate your own arguments friend!!!
Friend,what is the % of closures in both catogeries???
You will find it minimal in large scale industries!!!
MR.Nariman,for any one to compete,one has to maintain quality,be it large or small.
It is not a mere question of providing employment and what purpose would it serve,when we know that the closures are invitable even before one starts!!!
MR.Nariman,there will be only one winner in any competition,whether equal or unwqual.
It is always the will to win that improves till one finally wins.
Let us not be the crying babies for ever!!!
Friend,reforms are no meant for living and vibrant human faces.
No reforms will work for stagnant faces,who does not want to face the realities,in their march towards progress and prosperity!!!
We are only adepts in offering exsuses at all times,for not doing anything worth while!!!
Indeed a sorry state of affairs friend!!!
While the former said it was "Muslims" the later said it was "Christians" who are more backward!!!
This conflicting reports call for a clarification by the government to avoid the confusion,in the minds of the people and to set the record straight as well!!!
MR.RAJAYE, no fun friend and all negligencies or derilictions of duties are punishable,if found guilty, surely!!!
This case relates to the acquisition of pvt land,even after an earlier decree in f/o the owner,regarding the "HMT-Watch factory"!!!
Trust this may remove some of the apprehensions of our friends!!!
Under which law friend???
All can purchase the agricultural lands,subject to the land ceiling acts.As you rightly said they may even grow just grass,as an agricultural produce.Any bar on this friend???
MR.Nariman,if we go only with half hearted approches,it is bound to happen!!!
MR.Nariman,glad to note that we have millions and millions "living on interest income" alone,when compared to the past times!
This is a good improvement in itself friend.
Regarding the other desirable welfare measures, it is fully agreed,we should have them in place,in the near future friend!!!
MR.Nariman,the poverty is the result of 'self goals'mostly,because of the mind set to resist any change even when it is for their good!!!
We can only pity their ignorance and wish they should see the day light friend!!!
The way the arm dumps are found along the coast line and probably else where too!!!
MR.Nariman,my poser was entirely different to our friend as to "how agriculture was developed and at which cost" aganist his topic???
You may kindly answer this,instead of going in circles friend!!!
This part we can discuss seperately!!!
MR.RAJAYE,it is like which is first,the seed(people) or the tree(the society)???
The question of blaming or fixing responsibility comes next friend!!!
MR.varun,this is a valid point,which merits consideration friend!!!
MR.Nariman,development is needed to take care of such welfare measures only.
Without generation of "wealth" first,how can we distribute and what can we distribute except "poverty"!!!
MR.Nariman,where did he touch upon the development of "small scale industries" friend?
This is only your inference at best!!!
Even then,how do the small industrie survive?
Have you ever visited any of these small industries,located in various industrial estates,specially the biggest in Bangolore.
Do you know what is the % of units closed and for what reasons???
"Let us be more pragmatic friend"!!!
The ills are many,but there is none to foot the bills,friend!!!
MR.saisrini,one simple question friend.How did agriculture come into being and at which cost???
You are right friend.Same is the case with several states,The medical college admissions should be in the hands of "All India medical council" only!!!
It is very much necessary to scrap reservations of all kinds,in this profession.
It is not the quantity,but the quality that matters!!!
MR.Nariman,all possibilities exist!!!
MR.Nariman,yes all senior citizens are effected, and it is true!
But could be done for them,specially those who had no pensions or lumpsum payments available even???
Ot what is your solution to cover all catogeries of senior citizens friend???
MR.Iamtrue,firstly, in the other countries public would lodge a complaint in case of such apprehensions,instead of taking law into their own hands as in our country!!!
Secondly,in all such cases an expert panel would go into the merits of the case from start to the finsh and give its recommendations.
Thirdly any action aganist negligence or deriliction of duties,when established,will entail heavy costs payable,besides punishment if warranted!!!
Trust this answers all your questions.BTW!!!
friend,we all know who is paranoid now!!!
MR.Nariman.when we say the super power,it does not mean only militarily.
It encompasses all other fields such as "economic,educational,research,scientific and technological advancements,over all development and social welfare etc" friend!!!
QUITE TRUE FRIEND!!!
MR.saisrini,your suggestion envisages 'joint venture hospitals" in place of corporate hospitals or government hospitals.
But your suggestion is quite silent on who manages such joint venture hospitals!!!
MR.Iamtrue,application of consumer act to the process of medical treatment is impracticable,
due to several "variable factors",unlike buy and sell as in the former case!!!
Friend the real doctors come from the medical institutions,but not from laws!!!
A ggod suggestion friend!!!
Obviously there should be a "medical panel" to go into such allegations based on the medical reports!!!
We have enough laws to take care of if the charge of negligence or deriliction of duties is established!!!
friend,it is upto Srilankan government to sort out its internal problems as they deem fit!!!
or bound by an international or bilateral strategic friendship treaty friend!!!
friend,as of now, this stands as an internal matter of Srilanka and we have no business to interfere in its internal affairs either by our government or any Indian political parties!!!
How to deal with the LTTE supporters,is better left to government!!!
MR.Nariman,what are the reasons for not implementing the orders???
MR.Nariman,salaries need not correspond to income patterns,be it urban or villages,be one is a graduate ot an illiterate.Do you mean to say that the farmers have not raised the prices of their produce proportionately and there is no hike in the daily wages for the agricultural labour or the people in unorganised sector???
Can you say that all urbanites are very happy when compared to villagers friend.Can you say the cost of living is the same in both the cases.
This is not to minimise the gravity of situation.
We can not have all the advantages at all times friend.There are merits and demerits in any issue!!!
MR.Nariman,it is good you mentioned about the prices that went up.But why are you silent on the rise in incomes correspondingly friend.
It is a different matter whether these raises are in line with the incomes and expenditures paralelly friend!!!
MR.Arun,glad you recommended the board!!!
Hope it would be approved without any hickups!!!
radhikarajen,do not think that there is any such law that bars other vocational people from purchasing the agricultural lands!!!
MR.Nariman,what is the hitch in its noncompliance friend???
MR.Nariman,the laws are same for all with out exception.
If the application is not the same,we have several rights activists to take care of such situations.
Now for the compensation packages if not yet paid to the NARMADA evictees,most of these cases if not all are pending with courts due to various PILs!!!
MR.rebel,do you want me to believe about your ignorance in this regard!!!
A very pertinent point MR.mac.
Friends,please read this in the context of "NANDIGRAM", wrongly posted here.Sorry!!!
Friends,glad I am enjoying a BRECHT'S play!!!
Now the matter is subjudice.No political games please!!!
radhikarajen,in a nutshell,this value addition or lack of it, is mostly environmental,than cognitive???
Do the laws of "karma" have anything to do with this process,or they have no bearing???
This is a logical surmise,born out of frequent experiences friend!!!
radhikarajen,the purpose for which the land acquisitions are meant have only been stressed once again.
Despite the "SEZs" act,some parties want to bring in amendments to it now and want a change in the guidelines as well!!!
MR.Iamtrue,which way you want it friend???
"Horizantally or vertically"!!!
MR.Arun,ofcourse true.
Our horse (democracy) runs with heavy handicaps and needs to be offloaded at the earliest.
But our law makers are quite averse for even a review of the laws and systems.May be they are all busy otherwise friend!!!
We may go slow on SEZs,but the policy is irreversible said PM!!!
We may have to enhance the "cpmpensation package and stake holding" to the land owners said KARAT!!!
It is clear from both that the SEZs are here to stay.
But one wonders,why these aspects were not taken into consideration,"when the SEZs ACT has been enacted" during the discussions!!!
You made it explicit friend.Thank you!!!
MR.Iamtrue,the compensation packages should cover atleast seven generations,taking into consideration,the cost escalations every year friend.
Even then we are not sure that there will not be agitations!!!
MR.Iamtrue,in a jungle we have lots of firewood,to ward of both!!!
MR.Arun,your point is very valid one.But your suggestion is an impractcable one in the present set up friend!!!
Friend it is always the "ASPIRATIONS VS THE MEANS".
These two are parallel lines!!!
MR.Iamtrue,it would be excellent,when realised!!!
Friend,true.The colours of a politician is always known.
The unfortunate part is the people like a colourful visual on the screeN,KNOWING IT IS UNREAL!!!
But friend,let us not forget the fact that he happened to be in a nationalist party and in positions too.The switch over has taken place after his daughters entry into politics,for the obvious reasons.
Who knows,what is the tale behind???
radhikarajen,the points are well taken and true!!!
radhikarajen,did we give a value or is it inherent and inborn???
What is a fake encounter and who are witnesses to it,to prove it is fake???
Merely playing politics are no proofs!!!
This is no rehabilitation.It is a punishment friend.This is all the difference!!!
Friend,we all wish your two children will be restored to you if not done already,due to the internal ramifications involved in this case mentioned by you!!!
Friend,the presdent implicitly addressed this apathy only in his recent speech!!!
This is an unsubstantiated allegation, general in nature friend!!!
It is good for others to emulate friend.But it may not be possible in all cases.Hence the need to evolve uniform guide lines for all states!!!
The law says "YES" subject to other laws like ULCs.
Will there be even then, the same type of agitations???
Now CPI& RSP cricise his ermarks on "SEZs" and say no need for him to favour "SEZs".
This is another example,how we move about without any clearcut "DIRECTION"!!!
Friend,in your opinion what should prvail?
Is it the laws of the land,or the democracy or any other from of government,or the will of any individual,be it a VIP OR PP ???
ABOUT 98% of the people all over say they have faith in oneness of the supreme force,call it by whatever name,which is omnipresent and omnipotent.
Do we mean it really or simply say it.If we mean what we say,we know how to act in pursuit of the faith with values and due regard for all that was created by the supremeforce,which lives in all.
The day this thought dawns on "humanity" the conflicts vanish!!!
They do.All political parties avail the facility friend!!!
TO give a filip to this process.It is good.But when are we going to finalise the others and where are the uniform guide lines in this regard???
Is the course of a river ever be straight with out twists and turns friend???
It is all a part of life!!!
radhikarajen,may be true.But the same is also talked about by the human activists,be it NHRC,SHRC,OR ANY OTHER NGOS,besides the people and media too.
Have we not seen how these trials go friend???
Which is very difficult to understand I mean the human nature,even by the very human,friend!!!
How about the land "ACQUISITIONS AND THE ONGOING AGITATIONS in A.P,REGARDING THE OUTER RING ROAD" in Hyderabad friend.???
Are they not similar to what is happening in W.B???
radhikarajen,it is good to go back to the times of RAMA, and find out whether the same monarchial system holds better even in our 21st century too!!!
radhikarajen,thanks for stating that the society must have a rule of law.
You may be right that lawlessness exists in WB OR CPI-M cadres.But friend we have a law to remidy the situation too.
It is a different matter why people entrusted with the responsibility are not taking advantage of it!!!
radhikarajen,having said about the development,you were silent on to whom the land belonged or what type of lands they were, in all those cases,which is the bone of contention now!!!
Where does it lie sir???
It seems even the media has lost interest in reporting the progress!!!
MR.Iamtrue,when no culprit is caught whose identity still stands out as a mystery,how come this poor sales man is linked to him or the crime for selling a brief case as a part of the business???
IT is known to all friend!!!
Absolutely true friend.This unfortunate mind set should change at the earliest and on top priority!!!
Depending on the situations for the overall development!!!
Friend,if people do not want the democratic set up,they are entitled to go for an alternative set up!!!
Friends,thanks for agreeing with the cause!!!
The government of the should aim at a "NATIONAL POLICY" and evolve the guide lines applicable uniformly in all such cases.
Governments should concentrate on development and governance,but not in running business!!!
radhikarajen,it is said by the opposition parties at all times and places,that "the situation"remains the same in some form or the other in all states.
Is it not true friend???
MR.iamtrue,the issue in question is of "social justice" irrespective of population figures.My words of preferential treatment are to be read in this context friend.
Please check my original post!!!
MR.Nariman,what are they precisely???
But even then,assuming for arguement's sake it did,don't we have the lawful means to get them redressed,instead of the agitational and militant approches for political reasons???
Please give a cool thought friend!!!
Friend,the recent events prove who is taking the law into one's hands.It was the innocent people only who suffered but not the VIPS.
So friend, you now know pretty well,where the "mental retardation" sets in and comes from.!!!
Friend,it is being aimed at precisely now!!!
MR.Iamtrue,not possible not even in the distant future,for the simple reason,each one will pull the other's legs as usual!!!
radhikarajen,please honestly tell,whether the lawlessness in the society should be allowed to continue!!!
The law will take its own course,since all are equal before the laws!!!
This is the reality!!!
FRIEND,DO YOU MEAN TO SAY ALL OTHERS INCLUDING THE LAW MAKERS COULD BREAK THE LAW???
The security forces are the autherised ones to maintain law and order at all costs.In this process there could be certain "unintentional" ommissions and commissions,which can not be helped!!!
Friend,you are asking for a moon to be delivered!!!
Well said mr.Lalitjha!!!
This can obviously be seen from the present ongoings in the courts!!!
MR.piri,what was this "charur-varna" you mentioned about,and from which time it was caused by whom and for what purpose friend???
Friend,no good government would be unstable!!!
MR.Lalitjha,none objects for the grant of scholarships to the poor people uniformly,but not at the cost of merit and talent.
But it would be a great miracle if INDIA has to become a super power economically or even otherwise,when it runs with several of these handicaps!!!
This posting is being made to set the record straight,as it is seen a lot of discussion has been going on in this regard!!!
After the cease fire,the UNO resolutions called for vacation of the agression by PAKISTAN, and also stated clearly that holding of a "plebiscite" as agreed to by INDIA then,is contingent upon pak's compliance,with the above.
This did not happen even till date and instead Pak waged two more wars in 1965 & 1971 after which the "Simla agreement"between India and Pakistan,came into force,thereby making the earlier UN resolutions redundant!!!
True friend!!!
MR.PKVERMA,it is a very relevant point!!!
MR.freethinker,how can INDIA be a "colonial power" without any colonies outside of its borders???
MR.Lalitjha,it is exactly for this reason,I titled it as above.
Friend,the "relations could be good or bad" at any given point of time.They are variable!!!
MR.Lalitjha,you are right.It is just politics!!!
Poverty exists every where,in all aprts of the world and needs to be tackled with "uniform good governance" only!!!
It is generally known that the freethinkers have a derailed thought process!!!
Friend,what is government sans subordinates???
Friend,all respect each other.But all mistrust each other at the same time unfortunately!!!
Yes you are right when you said that an "impartial governance"is needed!!!
Friend,the leakages are every where!!!
It is true friend.The only variant is the intensity!!!
Friend,all respect each other.But all mistrust the other at the same time unfortunately!!!
Yes you are right when you said that an "impartial governance"is needed!!!
FRIEND,every one can not be a "Gandhi"???
MR.agniputra,why not communists???
MR.ajaycwhdory,the government counts friend.Who knows that the one billion people in our country may as well worship your new found 21st century
GOD too!!!
One more addition should not matter for them!!!
MR.freethinker,dealing with militant outfits is no supression.No country tolerates senseless violence and killing of innocent people!!!
MR.freethinker,how often you think freely???
Did any one ask you to lend an year to an organisation which you described with triple adjectives???
MR.bibhuna,we are discussing about social justice but not about religions or their growth,which is a different subject friend!!!
MR.Lalitjha,are we not a party for the partion and creation of Pakistan???
Friend,how can some one divide us if we stand united???
Any relation is not a "one sided affair" friend!!!
MR.sameer_inamdar,what precisely you wanted to convey by mixing up "politics,economics,religions,social and caste" issues,in the same breath.
Why this alround confusion friend!!!
On the other hand,the segmentwise preferential treatments,would only further lead to perpetuation of "social injustice"!!!
This is the state of affairs since independence,with all its ups and downs.People from both sides,mostly desire it to happen at the earliest!!!
MR.ajaycwhdory,there are more than one billion dalits in INDIA,and not 150 million dalits as you mentioned.Let God bless them all!!!
MR.Arun,this only shows that we lack both clarity and focus!!!
MR.Iamtrue,it is good they did it!!!
MR.Iamtrue,it is good BBC aired its views!!!
MR.iamtrue,to the best of my knowledge,it continues to function as a socio-cultural organisation as of now!!!
MR.Iamtrue,since nothing could be established contrary to this,the ban imposed on it has been lifted,by the same government that imposed it!!!
What is preventing from taking the suggested action friend???
Among various segments of the society,that ensures the stability.
Without stability all plans for growth and individual prosperity, go haywire.
Let people and all parties understand this simple precept!!!
MR.Iamtrue,all communities are having such NGOs engaged in socio-cultural service.
The service is done in silence and needs no certificates from others.
The organisations do it as a matter of their duty in line with their objective,unmindful of appreciations or depreciations friend!!!
MR.Iamtrue,all communities have their similar organisations.
As long as they are all sevice oriented,there is nothing to find fault with one or the other!!!
But friend,service is done in silence at all times!!!
May be BBC is making its own view point loud and clear friend!!!
MR.Iamtrue,if the same trends continue,even the fittest will not survive, in the end,friend!!!
Friend,it is true,but no other specy which is also a part of the nature,indulges in "self destruction",as the humans.
That is the biggest calamity!!!
Friends,the KERALITES are more intelligent in alternating their governments from the begining.
May be it has been so because of a high literacy rate!!!
The "humans" not alone destroy the nature ,but also destroy themselves!!!
Not to convert the supreme court into a police station!!!
This refers to a PIL claiming "AFZAL" has been tortured.(please refer today's TOI page 9).
Wish a firm directive in this regard, is given to all courts by the SC!!!
Friend,it is good you said that "Dalits and muslims" are different nation.
Any nation will have its well defined, "geographical boundaries".So where does this nation which you refered to exists???
We know muslim nations exist.Where are "DALIT NATIONS & DALIT AND MUSLIM NATIONS" IN EXISTANCE???
This clarification may be useful to send all our greetings on their birth days!!!
But the world moves on unconcerned with good or bad!!!
There could be "good or bad" relations.The efforts should be directed for better relations if not the best!!!
People have the other options as well friend!!!
WHAT we are discussing is what we see within the given span friend.We have seen neither the past nor could we see the future,which remain as hypothetical points only!!!
MR.RAJAYE,Hope all parties would take a lesson out of these polls,that people could never be taken for granted.
This is what we have been discussing in an unbiased manner.Every thing has a price to pay and so is "bad governance"!!!
You may please continue to have your own way.GOOD LUCK!!!
MR.Darpan,the voters are intelligent,but not the rulers!!!
This holds good for all and at all times!!!
It is nothing but the "bad governance" at all times!!!
We refuse to accept this simple fact, for the attitude of the rulers is, "The king can not go wrong"!!!
FRIEND,it would be a welcome feature,if such a "dispersal" takes place.
But obviously, the lack of infrastructural facilities,specially power and transportation systems,skilled labour etc are the main constraints for the present plight!!!
MR.sen,well said friend.The only difference is what is being experienced now in WB is being experienced by other states since a long time because of the agitational approches both by the opposition parties and other selfstyled NGOs,be it a "DAM OR AN INDUSTRY OR ANY OTHER INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENTAL PROGRAME"!!!
OFCOURSE YES FRIEND!!!
radhikarajen,our friend.MR.pendulam,with regard to morals,is of the view that it is upto an individual to deciede what is "right or wrong",when I tried to drive home the point,that these morals vary with" places,times and individuals."
The epics portions were brought into picture when he quoted about "killing,stealing and intiating force to kill etc" are morals,to convince him, that they do vary!
He refuses to see the reason.May be he feels, he alone is "right" and the other one is "wrong"!!!
If you can show him some light to see the reason, it would be fine!!!
MR.Pendulum,what was said was in the context of "rights & wrongs"with regard to morals,which you posted point wise.
For heavens sake do not try to do a "twist dance".
All actions could be justified. Keeping aside our sentiments,and going by our scriptires,was it not a fact that the incarnations of both RAMA & Krishna were "premeditated" ones???
Arguements are not your forte.Better you rest them friend.BYE! BYE!!!
MR.Nariman,may be I construed that it applies to all elections, even beyond 2009 loksabha elections friend!!!
It is good to learn that Indians are the perfect embodyments of "knowledge absolute"!!!
Please wait till you get one of your level!!!
MR.Iamtrue,I am speaking about a law if needed still to arrest the corruption.The ordinances have a little life and on expiry,if not turned into a law,they would automatically lapse.
Whether our law makers(politicians) whom we elected would take it up or not is a different matter friend!!!
You may be right in suggesting a new model of governance,which no where exists.
If INDIA could take a lead in experimenting this new model,the commity of nations would be curious to know the result!!!
The matter is subjudice now!!!
The WB-HC found fault not with the rights of acqusition,but with the proceedure adopted(which need to be substantiated still in the HC)in the acquisition.
Need not emphasise the difference between the two, time and again.
If still you refuse to see it,none can help you.BTW!!!
1. If murder is wrong, killing of RAVANA is wrong,what ever be the reasons.
2. If stealing is wrong KRISHNA having stolen the hearts of 16000 gopikas is wrong.
3. If initiation of force aganist a person is wrong then force used by RAMA aganist VALI is wrong.
This is what I said, that the morals vary with time, place and individuals!!!
These simple known examples have been quoted to drive out your own confusion in your mind.
So friend,now you know pretty well who is blabbering!!!
Better you rest your arguements any further for you lack any!!!
Does not matter???
Not that we can not engage this creature,but the same is unwarranted and not worth our time!!!
MR.Sameer,in the first place "Hinduism is no religion" unlike others.So,Neither it shrinks nor expands.It is, what it has been althrough!!!
In the second place,all in this country are INDIANS only,and there is nothing like a majority or a minority,in the country.It is only a creation of the politicians and the media.
Friend every right thinking individual condemns any henious crime,where ever and when ever it happens.
No country is free of the crimes and criminals.This does not mean that all are criminals in that country or society.
Please watch out!!!
MR.Sammer.Indians know that they all are indians and need to work for peace and prosperity of India together.
Needs no further comments!!!
MR.Sammer,INDIA haS given evidences of these operating outfits from Pakistan,to attack people and installations in INDIA.
Even Pakistan did not blame the outfits you mentioned,existing in INDIA,as harming them!!!
It has been taken note by the international community as well.
So friend better stop your hate campaign.It will do a lot of good!!!
IT is very evident that you are short of the facts and only the fiction leads you.Better turn your looks else where friend!!!
People wonder,why there was a drama of resignations and walkouts from the combined opposition!!!
This rules out the possibility of imposing the Precident's rule in U.P, and it would be a mockery of democracy, if still, efforts to some how introduce it are contemplated!!!
Friend,where is the bill as of now???
MR.Nariman,as you said the "long term", is too long and never ending.
The pendulam swings from one end to the other at all times,unless it gets stuck in between!!!
If necessary by constituting special trial courts and to attach the properties of those found guilty,with commensurate imprisonments,besides their dismissals.
Appeals if any,should only be allowed after the actions suggested above,by giving them a chance for one appeal only, and nothing beyond!!!
Without exception!!!
MR.babupriya,the investors would love it,if only the very much needed "infrastructural facilities"are made available to them,which include the logistics,before.They do not go by just promises/intentions,for the obvious reasons!!!!
radhikarajen,you would appreciate that this is what I said while answering our other friend,that the " morals differ from each other,place to place,society to society etc",for the simple reason, one thinks that one is always right,at all times,in most of the cases!!!
This double standards make all the difference.
If a law is enacted that president's rule to be imposed when ever the elections are held,be it the states or the centre,uniformly and at all times,none objects!!!
Friend,This could at best be one of the several factors.
Let us not forget the fact that earlier most of the PSUs were set up in areas,where we never had any of the trained hands and education is minimal too!!!
For any investor,the costs,more so the recurring expenditure is of primary concern,more so now that they are in a global market!!!
MR.Iamtrue,the bill as and when it becomes a law,is only a means for the ill fated parents to seek a redressal.
The law is supportive of facts but not of sentiments!!!
Friend,a very relevant question!!!
The government may think of providing "free" legal assistance later,after experimenting with the bill and its enforcement!!!
So,it is a very long way to go to reach the destination with numerous "ifS & Buts",before the senoior citizens could derive some solace!!!
Friend all such welfare schemes make sense with a responsive and honest governments.
By contemplating a bill of these sorts,where children are punishable,irrespective of their means,tantamounts to just "washing their hands",while garnering the votes as it seems.
Let the bill be brought with all details,when a better look could be taken!!!
Well said friend.Let the bill be passsed and become the law first.These are all only proclaimed intentions,at the election times,for the reasons known!!!
Friend,it is an election time.Despite such several promises,we all know where the women's reservation bill stands!!!
Friend the first two paras are relevant and holds good.
The third para depends on the situations that hinge on the plight of the parents!!!
Friend,the topic relates to post retirement,but not pre retirement.
Further,the bill intends to cover "all senior citizens" in the country and has nothing to do with the retirement specially from government!!!
This ground we covered already.If what you say is true,several maralists have been infringing on the rights of others,for each one thinks he/she alone is right and a great moralist!!!
This is what we call as "conditioning"!!!
What an extrordinary understanding capacity???
Please keep it up!!!
MR.Iamtrue,none coins a non-existant word,unless there is some motive!!!
It is not needed.However if UPA wishes to enforce it,with all the imponderables,it may have to pay a very high price with the U.P elections.Hope better counsels would prevail on it!!!
Neithe can you prcisely define what is a moral!!!
MR.iamtrue,it is a word of "fashion" coined by the left,while refering to the oppressed and supreesed classes,but not castes.
Nothing is coined or an act performed without motive friend.
The efforts to unify all other religions,along with people of some castes from Hindus to isolate other Hindus,this fashionable word has been invented.
It is a mix of religions with castes,for vote bank politics!!!
radhikarajen, thank you for your short answer as "YES" with several long winding riders.
Friend we all want good governance.That is an agreed fact!!!
Friend,happened to see even more worst things.No need to imagine!!!
radhikarajen,sure you should be knowing about the "Beholder's eye" which is applicable in all such cases.
All possibilities exist and need to be enquired into to arrive at the bottom of the truth!!!
MR.Nariman,the SC verdict given earlier is very clear on this.Any thing contrary to this would be struck down by it at all times.It is the responsibilty of the president to satisfy himself/herself,whether the recommendations received from time to time,whether such a recommendation is in conformity with the SC ruling given or not.
Still in case of a doubt,it is more advisible to refer it to Supreme court for its opinion and act only accordingly!!!
may be possible but not probable friend!!!
MR.Nariman,what has been suggested by both of us are on practical considerations only,with the difference of repurcussions/ the consequences flowing out such implementation!!!
NATIONAL SCHEDULED CASTES COMMISSION CHARMAN,MR.FAKIR BHAI WAGHELA!!!
Friends,this is what precisely has been questioned by me repeatedly on this MB,as aganist this topic!!!
As if this is not enough,he also questioned,why there should be any reservations for such people,when they "convert to other religions,specifically to islam & christianity"!!!
Friend,this could be an alternative finally,when all other means fail!!!
Friend,but would it be so slow, that too being an international express,when it passes through a station,so as to facilitate the people to get down from it liesurely, without being hurt???
The investigations should cover this angle also.
It should also be born in mind that these two Ahmedabad bound passengers wrongly entered this train and there was an altercation between them and the railway pplice as reported.If true, they could as well be innocent!!!
This adds another new dimension to the investigations!!!
MR.Nariman,or else we would only be opening the pandoras box once again,after the partition of 1947 friend.
Sure no country could accept such demands.This is for certain!!!
Probably you may be right friend.But in all such cases it is usual to make some one or the other to make them the scape goats,to cool down the tempers alround!!!
Most of these tricks come from the sleeves of shirts only,going by the experiences friend!!!
MR.Nariman,such a proposition would lead to a total "Balkanisation" of the country further.
The prudence demands only to convert the LOC into an international border!!!
MR.Nariman,a very sensible post.JUST HAPPENED TO STRESS ON THE SAME POINT friend!!!
Friend,even then one is not 100% full proof,as seen now and then.Yes,there should be an alround vigilance and hightened security in the country.
Compare this with the long net work of our railways and highly porus borders,when we speak of very lightly,regarding the security lapses here and there.
In the first place,the security people could not be every where with their limited resources!!!
Were reported to have got down???
Is it a scheduled stop at the station or not is yet to be known? If not a totally different picture of conspiracy emerges!!!
Provided their involvement is established beyond doubt, in the courts!!!
Not untill then friend!!!
And many others to follow!!!
A very quick departmental enquiry indeed.Let us congratulate the railway authorities for this splendid job!!!
Well said friend!!!
The efforts have been going on since independence with no success so far!!!
MR.Nariman,your question should have been "can we prevent this" and the answer would have been a big "NO"!!!
No country could avoid such stray incidents,however much one is vigilant!!!
Forget not the fact that even Pakistan is also a victim of such acts oflate.
What is the "statesman like decision" you have in mind for both the countries to be taken???
Without any authenticate facts to substantiate!
If they could, what prevents them to go to courts to get justice???None stops them!!!
All these "sympathisers" with those that indulge in murders of innocent people,terrorists,militants and arsonists etc,have "no tears to shed",when the law enforcing authorities get killed are inujured by them!!!
This is the most unfortunate part!!!
Play all the tricks up the sleeve!!!
Friend,your suggestion is nodoubt should be welcomed.But the big question remains,whether we have any good political leaders,worth the name???
Thanks for coceding at long last,that the state has the power to aquire the private property,friend!!!
The rest is all secondary and incidental to the situations and game of politics.BTW!!!
radhaikarajen,in the absense of facts,it is difficult to fix the responsibilty,during such agitations!!!
MR.iamtrue,where is the question of "aggravation of situations" in all such cases???
It is very unfortunate. The thing that happens is,the usual condemnation statements from various agencies,followed up by some commission to enquire into the matter,and paying compensations to those killed or injured!!!
Which most of the people lack.This needs to be either enforced or inculcated,if India has to progress!!!
radhikarajen,keeping aside the rich and poor and how black money is being generated,Please answer "YES OR NO",whether the state has the power to aquire the private properties,in the public interests,conforming to the constitutional stipulations???
radhikarajen,my post speaks about the same solution to a great extent.
Assuming,the government has the guts to aquire the lands of the rich,in the public interest,would it be OK???
We are discussing a principle of aquisition,whether the state is empowered or not???
Expect an honest answer from you friend!!!
Only in the states,not ruled by congress,be it U.P,W.B OR M.P etc.
Surely but steadily a pattern is emerging as it seems,much to the chargin of the people!!!
It would be interesting to watch the further developments!!!
fRIENDS,when we know it is nonsense,better it is ignored!!!
friend,this "work culture"should be prominent in all fields!!!
This is what happens when people are incited,when the people loose all their sense of proportion in the mob frenzy!!!
radahikarajen,exactly for this reason,I said that no more then one appeal should be allowed in most fo the cases and the SC also now pointed to a similar thing.Hope it would be systemised fully!!!
That has been said by you friend.You may check your own post above for which I reponded.
Decency and decorum forbids me to indulge in nae calling unlike you.BYE!BYE!
At all times.The current unfolding drama in U.P is a case in point for example!!!
radhikarajen,sure you would appreciate this,when you go through the SC verdict given at page 16 of THE HINDU,regarding the litigations!!!
It is good that it also said that "appeals can not be filed mechanically".
Let us welcome this far reaching verdict that puts an end to endless litigations and hope the same shall be applied to all cases down the order,for a quick delivery of justice!!!
Quite correct friend!!!
radhicarajen,first let MAMATA prove, that she is right in opposing this land aqusition,not by political agitations,but by following the due course of the law.
In our country it has become a fashion to resort to "Bandhs and agitations" on each and every issue either tenable or not,just for "political gains",where development has become the casuality!!!
Unfortunately the common man is the sufferer in the end!!!
You are absolutely right friend.This should set up a precedent for the good of the nation!!!
Do not worry.we have checks and balances provided in the very constitution to take care of such contengencies.
one can not say that he/she alone is right and the whole world is wrong,at all times!!!
Friend,when you say each individual has to decide which is right or wrong,"not for any common good for your own happiness" the very decision is always debatable for the simple reason,"what one considers as right the other considers it as wrong"!!!
So,these morals that go with individual perceptions are known to serve the "self interests" only,but not for "common good" as you mentioned,are no morals at all.This what the "Rationality" tells!!!
Needs no further comments friend.BTW!!!
Friend,Do you mean to say that "killing" is OK if the other one is also equipped properly or having grounds of self defence as you said???
Do you consider this "duel" moral and "rational"??? Great indeed friend!!!
We are discussing mainly about morals.Do not worry about my limitations in thinking!!!
radhikarajen,the concerned judge which you cited is paying the costs for his indiscretion friend!!!
Yes the most time consuming litigations need to be discouraged,for effective utilisation of their resources.
It should also be born in mind that we need the administrative reforms in the judiciary too,not allowing too many appeals in the higher courts and the adjournments as well.
At best one can go to the next higher court for redressal only once,unlike the present practices!!!
radhikarajen,India,which has been traditionally an agricultural country,which remained under foreign rule for centuries,missed the "industrial revolution" to lag behind for more than two centuries.
AS YOU SAID YES,THERE IS AN ALROUND SCIENTIFIC & TECHNOLOGICAL development with in the reach and at a cost.
Friend,the investors look at their overall "economic costs & logistics" and they would be too happy if the government lands are made available to them and not necessarily the "poor agriculturist's lands" FRIEND.
As I see,the better solution lies in leaving the matter to both the investors & the land owners,if it is essentially required,to sort out between themselves about the prices.The government could provide the other infrastructural facilities.
They may resort to land aquisitions only under exceptional situations,which are justifiable!!!
Friends,as this whole matter of land aquisition is being discussed down below any discussion on the same point would only be infructuous and redundant!!!
radhikarajen,if there is any ambiguity about the "public interest" any one including the governments can approch the courts,in whom the power of "interpretation" is vested!!!
Friend,in any dispute both the parties can hold on to their point,till a final verdict comes from the "judiciary"!!!
Friend,then who is the authority to define this aspect,which is and which is not a MORAL???
Who decides on the "rationality or irrationality" of a MORAL???
As you mentioned in your last para if "Morals are the sign posts for one(you) to decide right or wrong,would it not lead to chaos if one deides to murder some one,which he/she, considers it to be "right"???
Your point that"Morals will not be different for different people",would be dealt with at a later stage friend!!!
friend,the "judiciary" interprets and upholds the laws as laid down,irrespective of personal opinions!!!
As long as the land aquisitions are allowed under the laws of the land,it will not tanatamount to murder as you mentioned!!!
That much is known friend.They always vary.This is where the "judiciary" steps in!!!
But you said in the last post that the child does not repeat the same mistake after the experience,with which I fully agreed friend!!!
Why this about turn again???
friend,the hate burns the posessor first!!!
MR.musso,you are right to a great extent, except for your rider "once the people are content".
This contentment is found in people very rarely,,even after accumulating billions of money, friend!!!
MR.agniputra,we discussed on this point and disagreed even earlier friend.Friend,I am neither a sympathiser of RSS nor a hater !!!
Any way it suffices to mention,if what you claim is right,please tell us all,why the action aganist RSS has not been taken by various governments, so far???
Ofcourse,it was a different matter that it was banned, in the aftermath of the assasination of the father of the nation,"only to be lifted by the same government later".
This means there is nothing aganist RSS to take any action,except to reap benifits from such propaganda,targetting the "VOTE BANKS"!!!
Friend,please mention a few examples you have in mind for a purposeful discussion,in this regard!!!
MR.Iamtrue,you are exactly on to the point which the child learns and he needs "no reminders" as you yourself said friend!!!
radhikarajen,you are absolutely right!!!But what could be done if people do not want laws or conformance to them.
In such situations we all know the end result!!!
fRIEND,MORALS DIFFER from community to community,or country to country and even between individuals.Then what is the use of just discussing "MORALS"???
MR.RAJAYE,YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT FRIEND!!!
MR.iamtrue,it appears that our nation is accustomed to go into a deep slumber sleep at all times.
A thing that could not be done during day time is difficult to be done during night(specially while in sleep) friend!!!
MR.mfahm,your failure to answer my posers tell that there is not much of a substance in your posts!!!
It is exactly for this reason that the matter could not be settled so far!!!
Friends,the people may send to the "PARLIAMENT & LEGISLATURES" such knowledgeble persons aas their "chosen representatives" to make the laws,if they need a change.
Till such time the same laws shall remain in statute,which is subject to interpretation of the judiciary,which is more "legalistic than moralistic"!!!
MR.iamtrue,this history is known to all by and large and needs no repeation.What we do now to avoid the same mistakes, determines the future!!!
Friends,please insert the words "TO WITHDRAW" after "PROPOSING" in the title of the topic,which was an inadvertant mistake!!!
The savings that may accrue to a tune of about Rs. 2100 crores could be spent on more productive purposes!!!
Who controls the UPA friend???The people are not blind!!!
MR.mfahm,how come it is an illegal Indian rule???
Friends,the post relates to the present and not the past.Why to discuss people who are no more???
Better we concentrate on what is needed now!!!
The left friend!!!
MR.agniputra,when she visits all other's melas,why not this as well and see for her self the difference for a change???
HAS BEEN ISSUED,in settlement of a case of land dispute.
This has been the verdict from the supreme court.
This should atleast set at rest all litigations,when the land aquisition is meant,in public interests!!!
MR.Nariman,the same is applicable VICE VERSA to all parties,more so to the UPA!!!
Friend,the fact is "the payments were made or promissed" to the claimants,who are not the kith and kin of the victims.Where it goes is anybody's guess!!!
MR.mkbajaj,it should have been clear to you from my post,"those who received or promissed the benifits" are not the kith and kin of the victims,as per the DNA tests conducted!!!
Ofcourse,nothing would replace the lost lives!!!
MR.RAJAYE,I am also aware of the likely out come,as seen from the past and nothing surprises me friend!!!
Appears to be funny!!!
Friend,may be she is waiting for the approval!!!
MR.iamtrue,that was the interpretation of the media only.The CBI direcor only said that "one of the accused committed most of these murders"!!!
Then where did the five lakhs ruppes, each have gone.To whom did the government pay and how could it pay in the absence of any corroborative evidence???
It was reported earlier,that 17 victims were involved.CBI/forensic lab confirms that 16 of these skeletons belong to girls of age 10 and above!!!
Friend, corruption is all prevading in our country and not confined only to U.P!!!
From a lake bed in 24 paraganas,while digging it.These were recovered only from a depth of four feet!!!
Are the people going on a sort of "Treasure"hunt???
Friend,no government would tolerate "secession".Please remember it is "our government" at all times!!!
True friend!!!
MR.mfahm,The "UN RESOLUTIONS" are no longer relevant specially after the "Simla agreement".Even if they are,the promise by the Indian state, is contingent upon PAKISTAN vacating its "AGRESSION" as per "UN RESOLUTIONS" which has not been complied with even as on date.!!!
SO FRIEND,NO USE OF TRYING TO REVIVE A DEAD ISSUE.
It is the duty of every state to ensure the protection of its "sovereignty" from the forces both internal and external!!!
Mostly perpetuated "BY ONE OF THE TWO ACCUSED" and rules out that they were done for trade of the organs.The CBI director further adds,it is unique type of case and the "crime is known & the culprits are known which needs to be connected up".
Possibly he may be hinting at the loose ends of the "circumstantial evidence" yet to be tied up!!!
MR.SHARMA,the state government enrusted the matter to CBI for investigations.What more do we expext at this stage???
The "goodwill gestures" from both sides,may help to understand each other's view points and concerns far better,in taking the NATION & THE PEOPLE forward!!!
MR.RAJAYE,It is beyond one's comprehension,why the SSP should be transfered after the matter has been taken over by the CBI,where the police has not much of a role to play!!!
This is a pre requisite for a "collective construction" of a new INDIA!!!
A very sensible post MR.Lalitjha.Highly appreciated.BTW FRIEND!!!
friend,may be LALU is honest to have a transparent deal.Good luck to him!!!
MR.Nariman,this is what we call as "inner party democracy" applicable to all,in a "vibrant democracy as ours!!!
Friend,fiction is different from facts!!!
Why not walmart and others.The congress can expect better support from these FDIs MNCs as well???
"ENDING CORRUPTION"??? Are you dreaming friend!!!
NO guarantee friend!!!
We may have daily blackouts!!!
MR.Vinod,we have none that fits into the requirement,you mentioned!!!
Friend,your last sentence tell the whole story.If we destroy one tool,they know how to get ten more tools, if not more "to fool the people"!!!
Friend,the problem arises when there are preferential treatments, without uniform laws for all!!!
Friend,who and what prevents from having this cohesiveness???
Friends,learnt that the PMO & FM have different conceptions and perceptions specially in the implementation.
The PMO wants it should reserve 15% of the loans by all banks,for distribution among the minorities,while FM holds,this should be left to the individual banks to act upon!!!
MR.iamtrue,this is what exactly my post means.This is the result of adopting double standards at all times.!!!
We never had any bank based on a "religion" operating in SECULAR INDIA.Why now???
MR.iamtrue,it is always a "deal" contents of which are kept as a secret.There ends the matter friend!!!
..RURAL AREAS" BUT WHY NOT VICE VERSA???
Such strategies alone, may lead us some where!!!
IN INDIA!!!
So what is big about such bans???
And allow the "stinking cat" (corruption) to roam about freely to contaminate others as well friend.Not desirable!!!
Friend,are they not part of the same, most rotten system,in as much we are!!!
MR.nejimon,do you mean to say that after 25 years we all could come back to square one???
Friend,your points are appreciated and let us hope the government would initiate the requisite steps for implementation in right earnest and at the earliest!!!
Open any daily news paper or swtch on a TV channel,we find the news that some Jawan or police man is killed/injured in discharge of their duties when the terrorists/militants/naxalites/mobs attacked them!!!
None raises their voices aganist such crimes,be it the media or government or NHRC etc and no tears are shed for them except in a routine manner,unlike in the cases of civilians!!!
It is really amazing!!!
Friend either way it is only one gender!!!
That is the exact reason why people are for sale!!!
Friend,eitherway it is related to one gender only.Did radhikarajen mix two genders?NO!!!
Now that CBI is handling the case to uncover the "truth" presumably they went "under cover"!!!
MR.Darpan,we have doctorates too,much before her arrival on the scene!!!
It is the people, friend!!!
MR.iamtrue,it is the reason for them to think friend.The rich may not have time to think!!!
None of them would like to miss a great oppurtunity like this!!!
I do friend,MR.RAJAYE ,and most of the time what we have is only "trash"dished out.Nothing much comes of it.
At best it could help in institution of several "enquiry committees" FOR A COOL OF PERIOD,after which all will forget,inclding the media!!!
MR.RAJAYE,What is in a name more so in modern times.Just like on this MB people assume names of all sorts.!!!
Friend,please let us also know,what are all the western countries you visited and stayed for how long,to study their life styles and patterns too!!!
Friend,appreciated your list of infrastructural development.But they all may be economically viable,for the corporates and contractors more than the common people.
How do you envisage their economical improvement in real life???
Friend,it is nice to learn what you learnt and by all means the points are positive.It seems you must have gone there in the recent past.
But your post does not speak of your experiences.
you have not mentioned anything about 'various statewise associations" pertaining to INDIA,functioning there,in the same manner as in India!!!
OR
anything about their "social and economic living conditions",besides the "laws enforcement" and the conformance of the people mostly in general,unlike in our country!!!
This is precisely what we would like to know friend.BTW!!!
Thank god atleast for the one minute show friend!!!
MR.iamtrue,You are right,for,all of us on the MB enjoy when the thoughts/views are shared,despite some disagreements here and there friend!!!
MR.RAJAYE,The "TRUTH" relating to the whole issue is yet to be uncovered!!!
friend,it is all the ,more the reason,for the people to think!!!
If some one says that "I would start thinking,only after all my needs are fulfilled" is unimaginable!!!
radhikarajen,it is plausible friend!!!
Earlier most of them have wound up their shops in WB and moved out.
Now when they want to move in,the present agitations would deter them,for none would like to be caught in the political cross fires.
They have nothing to loose for they look for more green pastures.But it is the people who suffer in the end!!!
Why should it seem so friend,when the transfers were effected by the government itself???
MR.raksha,firstly,there is nothing to establish these purported kith and kin are related to any of the victim's skeletons/skulls discovered so far.Hence any compensations and rewards at this stage are quite "ridiculous"
Secondly,there is nothing to prove that some one is behind the "sudden cahnge of hearts",which has no basis for the claimants to claim any of the intended compenssations,at this stage!!!
radhikarajen,the cracks in the left front on this issue,are quite evident from the stand of CPI and a few others!!!
MR.rattanmittal,this topic has been posted in the context of the "Ganderbal killings" with which by now all are aquainted with.
A great hue and cry is always raised,when ever the killing is related to a minority community,but not otherwise,by the media,the NHRC and other human right activists etc,which stands biased.
This is the most unfortunate part!!!
radhikarajen,that was becuase of "suffocation than preparation"!!!
Now that you had an oppurtunity to "set your foot outside India" how are you friend?When did you go there?
You can as well share your experiences there for the benifit of the people here!!!
Funding whom friend??? All such institutions follow more or less the same pattern with profit motto alone!!!
Friend,they do have a self interest to keep people in that state perpetually.
But it is for the people to think about their self interests!!!
radhikarajen,it should have been a previlege, to be associated with MR.APJ KALAM then,which you must have enjoyed and cherished.
I envy you friend!!!
radhikarajen,absolutely true and the intentions were very much implicit when it was introduced.
Hope some TV channel or the other would conduct a sting operation to expose this fully!!!
-AND OTHER CRIMINALS PASSING OFF AS "CIVILIANS"???
"Are the armed forces,paramilitary and police forces not CIVILIAN???"
These questions need the right answers by all the concerned agencies,including the MEDIA,for the misleading reports and news that have been appearing quite often!!!
People want more sensible information,than the sensational one!!!
radhikarajen,Media should expose the evil practices,but not enact one with its own script,through a "sting operation" or even otherwise!!!
Most of the time it is quite amusing to watch the TV channels,with the ANCHORS consuming the maximum time doing the talking,than the other participant(s),thrusting the mike before every passer by!!!
MR.rsrao,well said.But,the first "four Ms" listed by you are either available or manageble.
The problem often arises with the last "M" i.e;METHODS,which are to be initiated and implemented,in conjunction with the first four "Ms".
When this is accomplished only,we call it a better governance,friend!!!
radhikarajen,precisely that is what is intended and expected friend.It is a different matter whether one rises to the expectations or not!!!
radhikarajen,if you are refering to MPLADS,all people know for whose benifit they are meant in reality friend!!!
radhikarajen,very rarely we come across a simple person,with high thinking,like our APJ KALAM.
In the recent past to the best of my knowledge,it was MAHATMA GANDHI.
May God bless him.
radhikarajen,in the first place,the matter is now in the hands of CBI and not that of U.P.police.
The presumption here is that the so called exposure, relates subsequent to the CBI's take over of the case,in which case this exposure becomes "redundant".As you said it could have been a "sting operation" conducted at the behest of some one to defame the SP.
On the contrary,if it relates prior to it,when police were handling the case,it should not matter,EVEN THEN,for it does not necessarily show the involvement of Samajwadi party.
The bribe could have been offered and accepted from any party,interested to protect M'singh,the accused!!!
Beloved and HON'BLE President MR.APJ KALAM,on several ocassions from different forums,from the begining of his tenure,in this regard!!!
IT is good friend!!!
YOU are quite right my friend,when you say it is premature.I do agree!!!
Yes I do have the fact sheet friend!!!
True friend!!!
radhicarajen,well said.It is possible when we have better governance,not untill then!!!
MR.RAJAYE,If a gang is involved countrywide,in this henious act,the problem is much severe.If not the CBI,let the vigilant "MEDIA"scoop this to force the authorities to put a stop to it!!!
But,the proximity of the "sub-jail"to these finds,provides an interesting angle too!!!
radhikarajen,well said friend.Hope the health ministry in particular and the government and public in general would be alive to this issue and bring in the needed laws into force!!!
It will do a lot of good,if people realise at the earliest,that we all are in a competetive world!!!
Who would be benifitted and growing???
HERE are the sample reports:-
1) 12% of USA scientists are INDIANS.
2) 30% of USA doctors are indians.
3) 36% of NASA sientists are indians
4) 34% of Microsoft employees are indians.
5) 28% od IBM employees are indians.
The recent aquisition of CORUS by TATA at a cost of 50,000 crore rupees,besides investments by several others in foreign countries also point to "employment potential & tax payments" there!!!
This happened while digging near a lake at MUSHEERABAD!!!
Coming on the heels of NITHARI killings,people there are worried and concerned.Forensic tests need to be done for more light on this episode!!!
Hope the WB government would also institute a CBI enquiry, to unravel the truth, at the earliest!!!
Quite true friend.The alternative due to "frustations" is worse!!!
Till such time no real power accrues,leave alone super power!!!
It may be possible friend.But in all probability he may be disappointed!!!
MR.iamtrue,which majority community are you refering to friend and in which country???
MR.RAJAYE,Well said from the past experiences.Still let us wait for a new experience to dawn to the contrary!!!
Ofcourse,it is only a hope!!!
radhikarajen,let people imagine the scene,if "Gandhiji comes alive" today, to see for himself,how his followers are faring on the path of SATYAGRAHA which he taught,"would he heartily laugh in appreciation or cry in dismay,disgust and depression"!!!
Friends,then,is some one trying to exploit these missing cases,by planting an evidence of sorts,misleading both the "media and public" and cash upon the emotional upsurge!!!
mr.Ramesh,please read my post once again which was a response to understand!!!
FRIEND,40 bags containing "flesh" also!!!
Looks like the CBI is on to a '"Treasure hunt" in Nithari of U.P.!!!
Out of which three are sibblings.
It is interesting the media is highlighting only these cases from U.P.alone,as aganist about 11000,missing cases of all sorts across the country!!!
It is still amazing that there are no public out cries in other states on all such missing cases!!!
MR.rattanmittal,as per reports thus far only 17 missing cases and the purported killings over a period of two years have been reported so afr in the area.
This means,less than one case per month.The police would snd should have observed a pattern atleast after a few months and followed up, instead of treating them as a routine affair in INDIA itself!!!
Friend as of now the police and CBI could not establish any connection between those missing cases and the skeletons and a few skulls discovered,away from the house in gutters behind and infront of the house of the accused!!!
MR.rattanmittal,ofcourse yes!The RTI act provides for certain exemptions not to provide the information, and also to provide in other cases where it is sought specifically or generally as the case may be!!!
MR.rattanmittal,the whole compensations either paid or unpaid yet,are of a "political drama",for NONE COULD LINK THE MISSING CHILDREN WITH the bones and skeletons found so far due to a hype in the media and resultant public uproar!!!
The question relating to who killed whom and if so how many is yet to be pursued by the CBI,linking them properly with the missing cases!!!
MR.rattanmittal,besides all sorts of speculation,what is it we have in this case as concrete evidence???
None except a confessional statement from the servant MR.Surender,which he denied again.
We also know that althrough, the main accused MR.M'SINGH has been denying the accusations.Hence the question as to who is lieing in this regard!!!
I am not sure whether AIIMS doctors have confirmed authoritatively,that the discovered AXE was or could be the "surgical instrument" for cutting the limbs with"surgical precision"!!!
All this may be a mix up of issues!!!
MR.rattanmittal,these fundamental questions besides a few others, have also been posed by me earlier and about the finding of skeletons and skulls said to be found in the gutters,behind and infront of his house,but not in the house.
You are right with recording of the confessional statements point.
Let us watch the unfolding drama further!!!
WHO is that is the ???
Friend,public has come to know of these serial killings,only after the police found out finally.
This is not to support the action of the police for their inaction when several missing cases from the same neighbourhood,were reported,over the last two years.
They could have seen a pattern and investigated them accordingly!!!
MR.rattanmittal,"some drama or the other" always goes on and on in this universe in general and in our world in particular,either with or without the "help of common citizens"!!!BTW!!!
MR.rattanmittal,in my view "all crimes are punishable".For your information an action taken in "self defence" if established is always upheld by the law!!!
This is because no administration in the world could provide "body gaurds"to every person in the country!!!
If it happens so any where it is indeed a great miracle!!!
MR.rattanmittal,let us have your unlimited views!!!
It is seen that the "religious laws" mostly induces cohesion of morality and spirituality in the same community,if not the entire society,while the "Legal laws" mostly causes the conflicts and strife in the society at large!!!
What we have now in IRAQ is an intereme one.It is to be seen how IRAQIS shape their Democracy finally!!!
-COMFORTS"???
If it is the former "universal love,peace and harmony" prevails in the society.
If it is the later "universal hatred,crimes of all sorts and disharmony leading to man made disasters" rule the society.
Well, the choice rests with the people and they alone are responsible for the consequences that flow out of the choice made!!!
MR.iamtrue,this much has been proved time and again.Old habits die hard!!!
MR.rattanmittal,you advocated "this type of rule" with a "gun culture" in your post above and it is amazing, you came to square one again!!!
Why are you so confused friend???
All revolutions were "born and got dissolved" in the course of time.If you care,try to find out the reasons!!!
In other words,you wish to bring in the "law of the jungle" or to "rule by gun"!!!
The people and the country are not inclined to have "either of them"!!!
MR.tattanmittal,this is no melodrama,but a "political drama" being enacted ever since our independence,with which all the people,including you and I have put up with!!!
It is one's own option to remain as a "slave under the "British empire or a sulatan or nawab or a feudal lord etc" or as a free citizen in an independent INDIA despite the teething troubles!!!
You are right friend.It is true we elected them.It is also true,most of them think the matter ends there!!!
This is the unfortunate part of our electoral system,since there is no provision to recall them!!!
MR.RAJAYE,YOU MAY BE RIGHT!!!
The vote of confidence was won by MR.Mulayam's government with 223 in favour in a house of 404.
This is inspite of the fact that a heavy propaganda has been launched by the whole opposition and media,aganist his goverment,specially in the context of the NITHARI killings.
Can we call ours is a "Democracy"still, with no respect for the vote of confidence???
There is nothing new which he has advanced now,for the position remained so,and we have a "federal government" from day one of the adoption of our constitution and the powers of both the central and state governments are clearly defined!!!
He is trying to justify the CPI-M'S actions by speaking some GIBRISH!!!
for any development.The rest would follow in an "order of priorities" from a long list, automatically!!!
MR.RAJAYE,You are right in saying that the "Law should not be taken into one's hands"!!!
Let the CBI bring forth the "truth" and nothing but the "truth"!!!
Friend,you may be right,provided their involvement is proved beyond doubt.Let that be an example!!!
MR.orbitual,now you are speaking of "perceptions",which are different as aganist your "physical comparisons" simily in your post earlier!!!
BUT EVEN THEN, THERE IS NO "EQUALITY IN ALL THE SO CALLED, RIGHT THINKING PEOPLE".
If you think still it is possible to do it,please go ahead to achieve it!!!
You are absolutely right friend!!!
MR.rattanmittal,now your post is clear read with the topic.It doe not looke like a "spontaneous affair" from various sections!!!
Friend,It looks like as an "organised affair" by some opposition party or the other to defame the party in power and prove that there is no "law & order" in the state,specially,when it happened while the accused have been under the custody of CBI!!!
MR.orbitual,the proof lies in the pudding.Let us have it first!!!
radhikarajen,it is an "Ideal" that eludes.Friend show me one society with "absolute equality in all aspects" in a democracy or even otherwise!!!
radhikarajen,wonder,why this post of yours,contradicts the one on the other board,that this is a "wake up call"!!!
MR.rattanmittal,please provide us the the"context,place and provocation" for the advocates and public to indulge in beating an accused in a CBI COURT for enabling the readers to make comments!!!
radhikarajen,well said, but with the present mindsets of the people,it may be a long way to show that!!!
If some one promises to bring in the former,it is intended only to mislead the people for the obvious reasons!!!
MR.RAJAYE,no compulsions.It is your opinion,that counts.
On ocassions it is possible we might disagree on a point.No hard feelings and nothing personal eitherway friend!!!
MR.iamtrue,it is known as "corpse politics" of the worst kind.
As you said,let the whole country be dug up to make it atlest more fertile,even if they fail in the hunt for such valuable treasures!!!
MR.orbitual,the grapes are there for all to fill in their bellies irrespective of the heights you mentioned.
None have any means to ensure that an adult of 4-6 inches,grows to a height of 7 feet or above even scientifically!!!
But there is only one way of making the tall man shorter i.e to cut him to size of the other,so that both of them will not pluck any grapes!!!
This is a sure way to bring in equality!!!
radhikarajen,reality is otherwise!!!
MR.RAJAYE,It is not only painful but shameful as well!!!
MR.better life,in other words "equality is not inclusive for all,but exclusive for some"!!!
This amounts to betrayal of the constitution!!!
FRIEND,I know it.It is nit addressed for you and to all friends.The words "better rest" mean not to waste our time with some who do not have open minds!!!
MR.iamtrue,I know it.You may consider my advice in the last words if you deem fit!!!
MR.orbitual,your point is well taken and thanks for agreeing to my view.
In my view, the "greedy" are more unprincipled and the "contended ones" do have both principles and character.
This goes with the personality of the individual,but not with riches or poverty!!!
Friend, NO,none is an untouchable one.
My post relates to "equal oppurtunities for all to grow",AND IS TO BE SINCERELY IMPLEMENTED in all fields uniformly, without any discrimination whatsoever!!!
If some people refuse to sieze the oppurtunity to grow,develop and go up the ladder,they alone has to blame themselves!!!
Friend,the oppurtunity and distance remains the same for all.The means to reach the place may vary.
Things would not be served at the door steps of each and every candidate.This applies to all equally.This is the equality friend.
If this is not equality,wonder what is???
Friend,none intends to humiliate any one, more so the poor ones,unless he is a "sadist".If only you care to know, you will understand who are indulging in such games and taking the poor people for a ride!!!
Strange,the skulls and skeletons are reported to be appearing at different places in U.P AND WIDELY PUBLISISED!!!
MR.iamtrue,it may also mean,that an imposter may turn up at a different time and place,claiming to be the real one!!!
May be friend.But what do the politicians gain in his company unless they are involved!!!
But quite wrong in implementing it.
"EQUITY OR EQUALITY" means,providing the same "OPPURTUNITIES FOR ALL" to grow, and have a set of "uniform laws,both civil and criminal" for implementation!!!
If it means otherwise,we should be having about one billion "PRESIDENTS OR PRIME MINISTERS" in our country!!!
Some relish the fictions more friend!!!
Friends,"abuses are no substitutes for arguements".Better to rest!!!
May be it is good for the healths of Dalits,for they will not be drinking the tea from the contaminated glasses of others,who knows!!!
Any way to ensure equality and dignity,such practices are to be abhored and I agree with you friend!!!
Friend,what brand of cocktail is this,when "politics,religions,morals,governance and evolution processes etc" are mixed up???
Who are these"DALITS" in India?Which Do they belong to a "caste,class,religion,creed or race"???
If you are clear on this,then the discussions would have more clarity in thoughts,instead of abuses!!!
Friend,it was you who narrated a list of crimes to begin with.
Do you mean to say that absolutely no rapes and crimes take place in other castes???
Friend what is "caste crime" and how can you compare a "caste with a race"???
Friend,where is the "Hindu led government"???
Still,you did not answer my question posed in the second line!!!
Do you want us to believe that the data is correct,when it is unable to conduct and maintain the "census and electoral rolls" correctly!!!
friend,then it would be a tuff job for the CBI!!!
MR.RAJAYE,please read the post with the qualifying word "Then" and it was a response to friend radhikarajen!!!
Dissent is a part of the democracy!!!
Friend,a crime is a crime when ever and where ever it is committed and would be condemned by all.Introspections come after the events,by which time it is too late!!!
This is to inform that the behavioural patterns remain the same in all societies for it goes with "human nature"!!!
From where did you compile these statistics friend!
Do you mean to say that all other parts of the world are free of crimes which you mentioned???
Radhicarajen,inspite of it,the CBI continues to exist as there is no substitute!!!
MR.RAJAYE,this incompetency could be seen at all levels mostly!!!
True friend.It was my addition to bring in more clarity.
radhikarajen,it is good we have another agency (the courts) to oversee and haul up the incompetent investgators.
But friend,the cases mentioned by you are only a few, where influential people are involved eitherway,while we have about three crore cases of all sorts, pending in courts for several years.
Who is highlighting the cases of poor people and following them up till justice is done at the earliest???
radhikarajen,then it looks like the common man/woman is in a "dark tunnel" with no end in sight!!!
Dear friend MR.RAJAYE,do we need a mirror to see the palms of our hands?
But the people look at their palms often to see,whether any of their lines have changed for better.
Unless and untill the people are ready to alter their mind sets and the things,no change takes place!!!
Friends,learnt another "atheist" and DMK chief,MR.M.Karunaaidhi,invited the Godman "Satya sai baba" of puttaparthi to his house to get his feet washed!!!
All this may augur well for the good of the nation and people, in the near future!!!
IN THE "TRIVENI SANGAM" RIVER WATERS AT ALLAHABAD
to cleance the polluted waters probably!!!
Political leaders of great "convictions"!!!
radhikarajen,no wonder if they say, they never talked about any surgical "instrument",but only talked about the surgical"precision" job done!!!
He retraces his earlier statements made to the police and CBI.
Interesting "twists & turns" may unfold further!!!
radhikarajen,this "AXE" was found in a bush "outside the house" like several other findings,earlier!!!
MR.RAJAYE,It is a game of fishing in troubled waters!!!
Friend,it is all about vote bank politics!!!
Not worthy of any further comments.BTW!!!
MR.pendulam,most of us here are ghosts only!!!
MR.pendulam,all have the same prerogative.None stops you!!!
MR.pendulam,your sixth para in this post just contradicts your own convictions and swings!!!
You said, being the master of one's own life and one could destroy it just like a shirt.It is one's own choice,but is punishable under the law in the course of the "attempts" to accomplish it!!!
MR.PENDULAM, plese remember there is vast difference in a "belief and a fact and a fact and fiction".
All are "prisoners of their own thoughts"!!!
radhikarajen, how are we going to ensure that the CBI is made accountable to the society comprising of more than a billion people and through what mechanism???
MR.pendulam,your wish is granted.Let us agree to disagree.BTW!!!
MR.pendulam,Prove it otherwise if you can or quit!!!
Do we need a central committee besides several other investigating agencies,to say that "U.P.Administration apathetic" and all other angles???
All people know this much and there is no extra "value addtion" made by this committee!!!
This may just serve a political purpose!!!
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT FRIEND!!!
PERCEPTIONS VARY FRIEND!!!
May it bring peace and prosperity to the people of NEPAL!!!
WITHIN TWO MONTHS,by the government.
The majority of people stand by them and do not want the matter to be dilly dallied any further,specially after the Supreme court dismissed the curative petitions and upholds its earlier verdict!!!
All know that "justice delayed is justice denied"!!!
Friend,it is a good begining!!!
RADHIKARAJEN,The latest reports indicate that the gutter is "infront of the house",from which about 40 bags with cut bodies,flesh and skeletons.
May be the case needs to be investigated from this angle too!!!
RADHIKARAJEN,THIS POSSIBILITY OF COVERUPS IS MINIMAL IN THE DAYS OF ELECTRONIC MEDIA!!!
MR.RAJAYE,what is the alternative friend???
You are right radhikarajen!!!
RADHIKARAJEN,if you recall this was one of my posers,when people are mislead with just publicity and wild conjectures!!!
MR.betterlife,the question is not about his investigative capabilities,but about the bodies found in the house of the accused,when both of them are under police custody,subsequent to their arrest and search conducted!!!
MR.RAJAYE, we know that the body is different from soul and the body is different from skeleton.
There cannot be any mix up unless one is totally ignorant!!!
MR.RAJAYE,we have the rights,true,but what we donot have is the patience till the CBI comes up with its report!!!
MR.sunilkoul,police register the FIRs and then lodge it in the respective file,on prima facie satisfaction.
The FIRs are to be given by the complainants.Even then the question of jurisdiction arises!!!
How is it going to solve the problem friend???
MR.RAJAYE,all have to await the CBI report to know the first instalment of the story!!!
MR.pendulam,let the leagal pandits sort it out in courts for we have aquisitions earlier and now!!!
MR.RAJAYE,The police has searched the house earlier in all nooks and carners of the "house" and found no bdies as such.
How come now,the bodies are found in the house,specially when both the accused are in the "police custody" ever since the first find of the skeletons a fortnight back???
Sounds both interesting and amusing!!!
MR.orbitual,you are absolutely right friend.Then we should have a law to eradicate this system,but not laws to perpetuate it.
The earlier parliament brings in one,so much better for the society!!!
radhikarajen,let us hope the CBI lives upto the expectations!!!
OF CPI-M.This confirms the legal position.
"leave it to the industry & farmers" says MR.PASWAN,the central minister.
Will this indicate the policy to be evolved by the centre,which was stated by the PM recently!!!
THE HOUSE OF THE ACCUSED??? FROM WHICH LOCATION THE TWO GUNNY BAGS WITH CLOTHS AND SOME SKELETONS WERE RECOVERED???
The first reports indicate,that the "recovery of skeletons of young children were made from a dry gutter,'behind' a business man's house".
No specific mention was made with regard to the "location of the two gunny bags containing cloths and skeletons recovered",was made,at the behest of MR.Surender,the servant!!!
Answers to these two questions may throw a better light on these grusome serial murders!!!
LET US ALL PRAY.
YES.LET US ALL await for the same!!!
MR.RAJAYE,TRUE FRIEND!!!
MR.RAJAYE,WELL SAID & AGRREED!!!
Peace and harmony returns to the humanity!!!
RADHIKARAJEN,such being the case it would be most prudent to be "silent"!!!
To protect our "democracy" at all times.
The statement of MR.J.J.SINGH,chief of the armed forces that they have all "outdated weapons & equipment" in all catogeries, tells it all.
If one goes by the budget allocations for defence forces,it is interesting to know, that about 70% goes towards the annual establishment charges only,leaving a meager 30% towards the cost of the weaponary and equipment,with price escalations!!!
This imbalance merits to be examined by the concerned,on priority!!!
It is observed on quite few ocassions,that some TV Channels run a story/news for some time and then suddenly withdraw the same,which is quite unusal!!!
radhikarajen,well said.Yes in each case there is a different motivation,whatever be the emotion and there will not be any mix up,whether it is single or multiple crimes,because,the personal psyches involved will surely give a different picture!!!
For example,in the case of a murder,it could be a well planned and cold blooded one,or it could be in a fit of rage.The only difference is under which catogery "the crime" is booked and prosecuted!!!
radhikarajen,the investigation would cover all suspicions,which it would also entertain.
Now that the CBI is investigating the case,there is little to do, except to wait and watch all the emerging/unfolding dramas!!!
radhikarajen,it is possible and the investigators would also like to cover this angle too,as a "motivating factor" for certain!!!
MR.iamtrue,the psyches of both catogeries,just do not match and fit into the puzzle!!!
MR.RAJAYE,if that is the case how do we fit in the case of "sexual assalt" in each case,before trading???
To link these two are a mismatch friend logically!!!
Friends,such a cannibal will not have time to setup and organise an international/national trade, in organs,since the former relates to pleasure and the later for gains!!!
MR.orbitual, we are discussing an issue relating to children.Why bring in all class or caste or religious stuff into it???
Can you say with absolute authority that none of the children of the rich are not touched in the child abuse cases???
MR.radhikarajen,it needs to be made clear whether it is a case pertaining to "organ trade" or a "psychopath".
It is ridiculous to say it relates to both,for the simple reason,that the motives are different in each of the cases!!!
Death sentence upheld! At least now, it is high time for the government to stick to norms and implement the verdict with no further delay!!!
The investigations should cover all angles friend,before coming to a conclusion.
The problem arises only when the motives are attributed in all cases,born out of prejudices normally!!!
Fossils will always be available in all countries,for all are mortals friend!These may support a contention but not intention !!!
True!MR.iamtrue.
It has become a common feature for all, after all such events, to issue formal statements of intentions,not usually followed up with well planned concrete actions!!!
This assumes importance because the defence minister MR.ANTONY admits,that the "sanctuary allegedly provided TO THE TOP LEADRESHIP IN BANGLADESH,was a matter of concern for us.We will take it up"!!!
We all know about the present turmoil going on in that country!!!
Where is the space in India,even if one wants,with a very high population and lakhs and lakhs of idols of several Indian leaders, of all hues,put in each street!!!
Yet,all countries remained silent and overlooked the conspiracy!!!
Absolutely true!!!
DEAR MR.orbitual,crime is associated with an individual but not with caste or religion or race etc.This is purely a psychic instinct, applicable to all countries!!!
This applies to a group or mob psychology as well,where emotional frenzies are aroused under instigations,whatever be the cause.
It is the job of the law enforcement agency,to book the criminals/instigators!!!
RADHIKARAJEN,probably MR.Kamalendra kanwar is unaware of the fact,that "sex maniacs" do not draw a distinction between the poor and rich,the moto being the sexual satisfaction!!!
As for the "organ trade" read a report from a FORENSIC EXPERT that the organs of children will not be suitable for any transplantations generally!!!
Ofcourse rubbish!!!
THAT IS WHY THE WORLD HAS BECOME UNIPOLAR!!!
Ofcourse yes friend!!!
IRAQ HAS A DEMOCRACY NOW, AT LONG LAST AND THE WHOLE WORLD DEALS WITH IT!!!
FRIEND,how about its other alliance partners, with several other countries have been extending moral support, or silent which again is a tacit support!!!
MR.RAJAYE,The media is always on the prowl for any sensational news,by several electronic channels,which was not the case earlier in our country.
This will keep both the governments and
authorities accountable to the people!!!
Friends,let us all confine our discussions accordingly.
As it stands,whether one likes it or not,IRAQ has a constitution and an elected government democratically.
All other governments deal with it with their representatives in place,but not with USA!!!
MR.RAJAYE,Thank you friend,but my only submission is, we can as well avoid the interacton,with such people,who instead of decent debate, indulge in abuses or calling names,for they are no substitutes for arguements!!!
C.C.S might have followed in the foot prints of some others,surely!!!
MR.RAJAYE,inspite of all our agonies, anguish and desperations,all such happenings are a part of the society and humanity that have no end.If not, we would not be discussing these issues!!!
MR.Atin7675,If the FSL is conducting all the tests needed in "utter secrecy" as mentioned by you in a post above,all these only stand as "wild conjectures" of the media!!!
Some wisdom has dawned atleast now,which should be welcomed friend!!!
Friend,in a democracy one needs to be tolerent to other opinions too, friend!!!
In other words it is a coexistance or allowing different flowers of diverse colours to blosom in the garden to make it beautiful!!!
Your disagreement or difference is also born out of "freedom of expression " friend!!!
Friends,people in other countries call these coverups as "most disgracefull" and not stop at that too!!!
Well said MR.radhikarajen!!!
Friend,all have the freedom of expression!!!
Yet, he was also a mortal!!!
yet,All the four extends outside support to the government in U.P!!!
What all this protends is any body's guess!!!
MR.RAJAYE,The is known.Also who to begin and where to begin is also known.But yet nothing is happening in that direction!!!
MR.radikarajen,both the rule of SADDAM and his hanging are the internal matters of IRAQ.
For your information,the wars are waged by the "divided humanity"only, aganist one another at all times,whether it is internal or external!!!
MR.seshadri,in a society where all vulgar depictions are being "hailed as precious art pieces" under the garb of "freedom of expression", all enjoy the same rights to put forth their views!!!
It is not the exclusive previlege of a "select band" of people alone!!!
MR.RAJAYE,may be we the humans are proving the adage "construction is meant for destruction" to be right time and again!!!
MR.orbitual,a crime is a crime whoever commits it!!!
Friend,I join you along with other friends as well,in your"noble resolution".May god bless all.
MR.radhikarajen,you may please go through your own message which was not cohesive.This is due to mixing up of international affairs with internal political affairs and suicides etc.!!!
Friend our emotional out bursts will not lead us any where,but cool and calm thinking may!!!
The people friend.If they opt to be passive,well it is their choice and so be it!!!
Friend,then this topic and discussions there off are superfluous!!!
MR.dnd1972.these "twists & turns" happen every where except in a fancy land!!!
MR.iamtrue,if it were to be so,Why all opposition parties,including the congress have demanded for the CBI enquiry???
MR.Atin7675,sure the courts would see through all such (non)/sensible arguements finally.Let us wait and see!!!
MR.betterlife,this is exactly the job of the "head" to issue the orderly commands and ensure their implementations by all means and take the "timely appropriate actions" whereever needed!!!
Orelse just having a head on one's shoulders will be only a ornamental piece!!!
MR.orbitual,in other words, as you say,we are all "unconditioned animals"!!!
MR.RAJAYE,When all systems fail us, leading to disorderliness,it may be time,to have a "new order"!!!
If the SSP MR.Rathore as mentioned by you is working for and on behalf of the government,he would not have been suspended at all by the same government friend.
It is quite illogical and sounds ridiculous!!!
MR.RAJAYE,"MAY BE IT IS HIGH TIME TO BRING IN THE MUCH NEEDED REFORMS" in the police department from the recruitment stage to the retirement of the people!!!
This calls for proper eligibility creteria in various cadres of induction,where even the lowest rung constable is aquainted with minimum legal perspectives in handling the cases in a "sophisticated manner" who should also be duly armed as well,for use in emergencies,instead of a mere LATHI as is the case now!!!
The PM/CM should ensure that there is no political interference in the working systems!!!
Discipline/honesty should start from the top for a better governance!!!
A very valid and appreciable point friend!!!
If an impartial enquiry is held,sure more "skeletons" would tumble down from the cupboards!!!
As per a report these are all missing.The boys in the age group of 5-10 years and girls from 10-15 years are more and this figure is ever increasing from year to year!!!
This needs a well co-ordinated efforts from both state and central governments to break this racket.
This could be made possible with the "exclusive active cells" in the respective state police and the central agency!!!
People also should report the missing cases promptly and not after a lapse of time with full particulars!!!
Then only these missing cases could be minimised, if not totally avoidable!!!
MR.Murlio,the corruption is universal.China has atleast initiated some measures to check this evil.
How do we intend to tackle it and who should do it???
Appreciated friend.But what measures you have in mind to clean this decaying society???
Going by the reports,he stands suspended friend!!!
Friend,this has already been done and CBI has to look into it now!!!
Mere moral courage will not make India the other pole.To be that opposite pole, it needs several other things!!!
MR.radhikarajen,you should have been more forthcoming to affirmatively state that what we have is a "Mobocracy"!!!
MR.dnd,do we like others poking their noses in our internal affairs.It is not the question of likes and dislikes,but it is a matter of principles!!!
We may abhore the "hanging" as humanists.But as long as the laws of the land permit it,how can it be questioned???
At best the humanists can debate on this issue endlessly and nothing comes out of it, till the law is changed!!!
MR.radhikarajen,in politics there are no permanent friends and foes as is known!!!
It is a very valid point no doubt!!!
As an elected PM of IRAQ,he has a right to caution others not to poke their noses in the internal affairs of his country!!!
Absolutely correct friend. We are fond of being in the forefront to give unrestrained sermons only devoid of any actions!!!
MR.Atin.even assuming that the poor people could afford the high priced wares,no criminal would preserve it as evidence, safely in two guuny bags,while disposing the bodies in the gutters!!!
This is most ridiculous!!!
MR.Atin,it seems you are very much on the scene to testify about the cloths,their type and yarn etc,which luxury the poor people could well afford to wear.Great!!!
MR.Atin7675,Nothing is deflected.Now that the CBI enquiry is on,let the people wait for its findings and the subsequent trials in the courts!!!
Let the frenzy subside,for it blurs all reasoning!!!
YAH! we think we are only "upright" and all others are wrong.Anyway it was only an answer given by me when the suggestion came from another friend.
So please do not work up and spoil your health friend!!!
Friend,it would be a mystery if the cloths remain intact,when the bodies turn into skeletons!!!
Further it is strange that the accused kept these cloths well packed and ready to be picked up by the parents/police, after destroyng the bodies!!!
THIS IS WHAT YOU AND OTHERS WHO BELIEVE IT ARE TELLING,which is to be "substantiated".What proofs do you have,justifying these dismissals,except going by rumours ???
Because I have the brain, I am able to "think and reason out",than to be carried away by the floating news rumours.BTW!!!
IT IS A LONG WAY TO GO FRIEND!!!
Undoubtedly friend! Here also the motives are attributed to sexual assaults in some cases and for paltry sums in the rest of the cases!!!
That is the pity!!!
With monumental breakdowns in all "institutional systems" with none to correct them!!!
People have only sermons to listen and look at the skies for the arrival of one,to comfort them!!!
Friend,foreign media is already here and it makes no difference yet!!!
MR.radhikarajen,it is possible with the willing people only!!!
MR.radhikarajen,the fact is we did not or could not!!!
MR.radhikarajen,all the nations,other than those vielding veto power,under the circumstances stated by you,have the option to "quit" THE ORGANISATION!!!
Is it not friend???
It is seen from a news report that" more than 25 people" were killed with "boulders" so far.This has been revealed to the police, by two people in police custody in A.P.(Four more suspects are supposed to be, still at large!!!)
The report says that both the killers & their victims happened to be poor people only!!!
The cases are under investigation!!!
MR.Atin7675,the efficacy and the applicability of the "narco tests" is still being debated around the world!!!
All friends,be it from political or medical or any other circle can visit a friend or relative or an individual any where, and there is no law to forbid them as such, unless they are barred, under the laws of the land!!!
Friend,if this report is true,it weakens the prosecution case aganist the present accused,if at all it comes to that stage!!!
MR.Atin7675,if any one is to be dismissed based on a mere news paper report,none could have remained in the establishment!!!
Friend,(1)you are right possibly.But the point is the cloths andsome of the skeletons were found in two gunny bags.When the bodies turn to skeletons,the cloths would not have remained in tact.This is the "curious point"!!!
(2)The action to suspend pending an enquiry is allowed under the rules,but not "their dismissals"
Friend even then,the government of A.P.owes an answer or condemnation of the report to be false!!!
Or else this may boomrang on congress itself viewed in the context of these U.P.killings!!!
MR.Atin7675,you & MR.radhikarajen, may be right about the ensuing election dramas being enacted as usual.
But my poser about the "matching of skeletons and skulls with the names of the victims" without any authentic proof still remains unanswered!!!
MR.radhikarajen,the election gimmics are understandable, as you said,but yet my question about the "identification" of the victims from mere bones and skulls,in the absence of any authentic proof (forensic/DNA tests etc) remains unanswered!!!
TRUE friend."ULFA" killing 48 people does not move us for action,not even the governments both at centre and the state!!!
Daily killings of people in J&K by militants is of no concern of the Indians in other states and government condemns and call all such actions as cowardly just in a mechanical manner!!!
We the Indians are all for peace and have to show our other cheek to get the slap!!!
MR.agniputra,thanks for admitting the facts.If UN is felt as a white elephant by all countries,better to dissolve it at the earliest!!!
MR.agniputra,"aware of what"???
QUITE possible friend!!!
Which calls for imposition of President's rule!!!
Strange are the ways of our leaders with double standards!!!
MR.iamtrue,(1) even presuming the FIRs were filed,how could the police connect the skeletons/skulls,to a particular victim and arrange payments of five lakhs each to the next of kin which were disbursed???
(2)Pending enquiry one could be suspended,but none could be dismissed!!!
(3) What purpose so many enquiry committees serve and where is the guarantee that each one would not contradict the other,making the whole process of enquiry comical and a farce???
1) As per police version as reported on 31st December 2006,the following points were worth noting:-
a)According to police six children-four girls and two boys went missing from Nithari in 2006,while two girls under twelve disappeared in 2005.
This brings the reported missing cases in the last two years to "eight"!
b) MR.Surender,one of the accused allegedly confessed to having killed six children.(seperate mention of a teen aged girl not included).This adds upto seven.Later he admitted it was nine.
c)Later some more skeletons and skulls were found after digging in the gutter,bringing the total recovery of skeletons and skulls to fifteen.
d) The police also recovered "two gunny bags" with "cloths and some skeletons".
The inconsistencies now are,(1)if surender has confessed to have killed in all seven (purportedly a joint operation with the other accused"MR.Mohinder' his employer,how come there were 15 skulls(whether the recovered skeletons match all the 15 is a different matter)
(For arguements sake let us not attach much credence to surender's confession at this stage).
(2) If the bodies are stuffed into two gunny bags,"how come the cloths remained in tact for identification by the kith and kin,while the bodies turned into skeletons!!!
(3) How is it possible for theose concerned to correctly identify the "skeletons and skulls" belonging to their missed ones,without nay forensic tests.This is beyond comprehension!!!
(4) In the absence of any authentic proof as at (3) above,how come the cheques of compensations were habded over to the kith and kin and what was the hurry???
(5) The main charge relates to "sexual assault" and killings after the event.If this be so,how come a few boys were also lured and killed???
(6) The police has ruled out any "organ trade" in this regard.This is to be supported by forensic reports.
Can we expext clarifications and answers for these inconsistencies from the concerned!!!
IT IS A PROBABILITY!!!
Giving sleepless nights to the left front government/CPI-M in general and the CM in particular!!!
But the centre has so far not taken any initiative in this direction,since independence or for that matter have not even given a thought.This the paradox!!!
Friend,Indians,are acustomed to go "gaga" over any "foreigner",but remain unconcerned where an "Indian is concerned"!!!
Arrange for the disbursal of "compensation" amounts to the kith and kin of the victims,in the absence of forensic reports and DNA test???
The speed with which this has been done is quite amazing!!!
Friends,the fact that none of you so far, have any answers to the questions posed in my above post,tells a different story!!!
MR.ATIN7675,I am very clear in my mind.There are so many angles for these gory and abhorable incidents, and a conspiracy also could not be ruled out.
All this needs a proper investigation.The negligence of the police is one of the factors.
Friend,"where emotions rule the reason disappears" as happened to the "Kandhahar plane hijack" episode!!!
Friends,let there be a "corruption eradication" movement from any of the political/social leaders or any other, and all of us could be a part of it!!!
Friend,it is exactly for this purpose we the people, have elected our representatives!!!
Friend,please check the reports once again.No girl escaped as per the confession of MR.SURENDER,after the police closed in on him!!!
This could be the similar case with other states as well.
The centre may compile these missing statistics,with how many have been traced and restored to their kith and kin,"statewise and yearwise", atleast for the last 10 years and publish the same for the benifit of the public!!!
Well said,but you forgot to add the politicians,who will say that he has to spend a few crores of rupees in getting elected as a "Sapanch,MLA OR MP" etc!!!
The dictum happens to be "Make hay while the sun shines" as much as you can!!!
Any sensational news is food and good enough for them!!!
journalists attribute such lapses to "system" failures.!!!
Central & state governments appoints high level committiees!!!
All is fine!!!
But these following "grey areas" need to be looked into and answered by the concerned:-
1) What was the basis for the compensations paid without linking the skeletons to the missing persons???
2) What was the basis for the dismissal of the police officers,without enquiry???
3)Why should so many enquiry committees be appointed wasting lot of taxpayer's money???
Friend,you may be right,for the cracks are already showing up!!!
MR.Pendulam,do not forget the fact, that we have enough "checks and balances" built into our constitution!!!
True friend!!!
MR.radhikarajen,these attempts to reform have been going on since ages.The "human nature" still remains the same!!!
MR.radhikarajen,thanks for admitting that the "crime and intolerence" exist only in our civilised society on this planet, we live in!!1
The rest is poetry.BTW!!!
Friend, tell me as to "who found these skeletons in the first instance"
Was it police,or people or media???I understand it was police,and I stand to be corrected!!!
MR.Atin7675,while I agree to most of what you said,this is only to mention,that we have a few cases, where the police were clueless,even in some of the assasinations and murders committed,even after three to five decades,in countries where they had very efficient investigating agencies!!!
Friend,I agree with what all you say.But is it not the police who found these skeletons???It is this "credit" I mentioned nothing more or less!!!
It is seen from the reports that some officers were dismissed,while some others are suspended.
It was the police who unearthed the skeletons and brought us a story,linking these to the missing persons AND ARRESTED THE TWO CULPRITS.I mentioned the "credit" in this context alone!!!
We have only the purported confessons from these two, linking the skeletons to the missing people and "no other basis as yet firmly".
We also know how these confessions were denied in the courts,much to the dismay of all!!!
There is no denying of the fact that the police could have seen a pattern,when several cases of missing persons from the same area was reported and acted upon it!!!
Friend,who found these skeletons???Not the people and not the media???it was the police.If I am wrong please correct me!!!
I fully agree that there could have been negligence on the part of the police,for which they could be hauled up and punished!!!
Friend,we all stand for justice to prevail.But justice cannot be delivered instantly!!!
OFCOURSE YES!!!
MR.betterlife,his answers are forthright and welcome!!!
PROVIDED THAT VIGILENT CITIZEN IS POSITIONED AT THE CENTRE OF "ABSOLUTE POWER".But then we call himself/herself as a "dictator"!!!
MR.radhikarajen,where is that civil society totally void of any crime or violence???
Friend,well said and none can deny the fact,that "all institutional systems" have failed to work efficently!!!
But as you said,how can each individual,vigilent though,could make the systems work efficiently,if not effectively,in the absence of any mechanism or a forum to bring awareness in public???
Any suggestions in this regard friend!!!
Yet,One fails to understand,why we should have "agitations"on each and every land aquisition,stalling the "developmental works"!!!
Why don't we "credit the police" in unearthing these killings and arresting the people responsible for them,finally!!!
The people and political parties want it both ways.One wonders whether we have systems that work effectively,in the normal course!!!
Friend,if people are willing to take the risks,let us wish them all well!!!
MR.RAJAYE,you would be surprised if you get the right answers!!!
TRUE!
To prove hazardous for the piligrims???
What a pity!!!
MR.Stopperbhai,can you please tell us all,why INDIA failed in mobilising the" NON ALIGNED CONTRIES" to oppose both the invasion and hanging of SADDAM???
Let us not have the customary knee jerk reactions.Let us mind our "National interests" as any other country!!!
But the other mighty nations in the UNO, could have stood up in defence of SADDAM & IRAQ fully,if necessary by coming out of the UN itself,without minding its disolution!!!
What is the use of blaming USA alone when some of the other nations have also joined their forces for the invasion of IRAQ,that too after debating the issue in the UN security council,and what made the other VETO powers to remain silent??
Why did they not oppose the action tooth and nail then itself???
For stating that "his competitors might be stocking the fires" during an interview given to a TV channel.
But will it hold water???
We have several cases of missing persons from all the states.
The police would normally pursue the leads if available to bring the culprits to book,with the limited resourses placed at their disposal,while attending to the other pressing duties assaigned to them under a lot of stress and strain.
It has also been seen that "children and adults too" run away from their homes in most of the cases lodged with the police.
Hence it is possible under the circumstances,the police could have taken a callous attitude,treating them under "MISC,catogery".
This is neither a support for the police of their "inactions",nor a plea on their behalf!!!
The politicians always blame the police, for both their "actions and inactions" to exploit a situation,demanding a CBI enquiry or an enquiry by a sitting judge.The state responds to it accordingly.
After a while the hues and cries subside alround,and all forget it!!!
But the governments/Administrations, need to review their shortcomings and lapses periodically, to instill confidence among the public,that they have a system to take care of their concerns!!!
What is this confusion friend? No where we have a "tailor made democracy".This has to be built by the people brick by brick!!!
The idea is to stay put as a cohesive force on the international stage!!!
This is possible and made viable as well!!!
MR.radhikarajen,to find answers to your questions, we all may have to go back to refurbish the pages of history,specially relating to the begining and end of second world war!!!
FRIEND,intolerence and violence in the world, continue to exist at all times,irrespective of the polarities, and laws,much to the chargin of humanity!!!
The world only had a few glimpses of the "NAM" down the memory lane.It has lost its sheen specially after the disintegration of USSR and end of the cold war.
This has resulted in a unipolar world,whether one likes it or not.
The aspirations to usher in a multipolar world have yet to take off.
This is the present reality!!!
Friend,sure it is one of the fields where improvements are very much needed!!!
FRIENDS,WISH YOU ALL A HAPPY & PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR!!!
MR.betterlife,can you please amplify your last sentence!!!
MR.betterlife,it is quite amusing to see all those who condemn "idol worship" are themselves indulging in it!!!
MR.roop-kumar,frogs in the wells rarely learn!!!
What has been stated applies only to the concepts of various religions but not their practices!!!
You are right in making clear once more that hinduism has not been a religion!!!
MR.betterlife,why are you trying to deflect the topic matter???
Religious matters and social movements stand on different footings!!!
It is justlike we continue to worship the idols of various political leaders too.!!!
Dear MR.Vsiddharth,it would suffice to say that India should be self reliant!!!
India could only be strenghtened,with "quality rather than quantity,in all fields" !!!
MR.salemsrini,obviously both have their political compulsions!!!
Yah! It is a point to be noted friend.But with congress condemning the execution of SADDAM,it may not enjoy its full vote bank,for there are going to be divisions in it!!!
The situation is fluid as of now!!!
How about Khurds friend???
Friend,your point is well taken.But then it is a coalition,which is again suseptible for divisions,among minorities!!!
That confronts that Nation and its people!!!
This means either she is aiming at U.P.elections or usher in an uniform reservation policy,with no caste discriminations!!!
This happens to be the norm at all times!!!
Let us all congratulate the historian for a good job done!!!
FRIEND,when such laws are put in place,contributing for the good,even the politicians who incite,could be brought to book!!!
For most of the things will be lost,in all such calamities,not to speak of the lives!!!
Agood governance and alround committment may bring one any year!!!
"Judicial efficiency" would be judged on the basis of number of cases disposed as aganist the total number pending at the closure of each year ending.
This is not to minimise their active disposals where high profile cases are concerned.
What is needed is "judicial effectiveness",in quick disposal of the cases, there by bringing down the pendency of the cases from year to year!!!
Friend,It should serve a purpose or what is the use of remembering them, when times and value systems change continuously,except that we garland them for political purposes!!!
MR.betterlife,if none has time to ponder over,then all have to endure, what cannot be cured, althrough,with out any grumbling,reconsiling to their fates!!!
MR.pendulam,totally disagreed, for laws and morals are two different aspects.The former conditions and the later rules.The former has an element of sentiments and superstions,while the later has rational thoughts!!!
Is it? Then I wonder at the wanton overlapping of the legal and moral aspects,may be due to confusion and hence the contradictions,which crept into your postings!!!
Friend, virtues and values are on the decline unfortunately.As we all know "desires" mainly to posess, are the root cause for all the evils in society!!!
MR.iamtrue,nothing wrong in learning history to take a lesson from it to avoid the recurrence of the same mistakes,but "one should not live in history (past) alone" !!!
Let all political parties decide not to play a game with "Double standards"!!!
Let all the people pause to think in which direction we are headding!!!
Let the laws of the land be applied uniformly,without fear or favour or discrimination, by the government!!!
Friend,we have come a longway since 1921 and it was a journey of 85 years.The past has both sweet and bitter memories.
But it may be more prudent to live in the present to build a better future friend!!!
Appreciated friend!!!
MR.iamtrue,hope you mean a "state of equanimity" which is different from "equalibrium".Only then the debit and credit of one's actions attains "o" value!!!
Friend,these type of comments are leat expected coming from a PM of the country!!!
One can easily make out the intentions and the targets as well!!!
Dear MR.Iamtrue,gone through all the three posts of yours,together with Late Anibesant's & MKG's observations,which revives one's memory about the most abhorable and ghory incidents of the past!!!
The picture would be still worse,when one goes through the incidents that followed the partition of the country!!!
The story is no different across the countries even now,which shows none learns from the history,and all go by the emotional upheavals,which blurs the sanity!!!
MR.PENDULAM,you are no doubt entitled to have a perception!!!
MR.pendulam,I am what I am.your outpourings and abuses are not going to alter the situation.Wish you all peace and prosperity friend.BTW!!!
MR.pendulam,you are better adivised to get the legal opinion on this, from an advocate!!!
Friend it equally applies to it too.It is the only way to eradicate the bad systems and practices!!!
MR.RAJAYE,all incitations and divisions that disturbs peace and harmony of the society, should be curbed!!!
For all such people the law has provided two places to be put in.One is the police station and the other is the LA!!!
None objects for the alround development of WB. But Let the LEFT in general and communist parties in particular,not adopt the "double standards"!!!
Dear friend,unfortunately,though the "majority",comprising of all the parties oppose the congress,fight, among themselves out of their prides and prejudices,which is taken advantage of by the congress!!!
Of course,this "oppurtunistic politics" played by all since specially 1990,has resulted in undesirable trends in "Indian polity"!!!
Dear friend MR.pendulam,your opinions born out of feelings and emotions are well taken.
But the fact of the matter is "there is nothing like a natural right" and all rights are subordinated to the state,under the constitution!!!
However,the state normally will not resort to the aquisitions and conscriptions (as already stated by me earlier) unless and otherwise warranted in the public/national interests.This is the factual position friend!!!
Dear MR.Jairama,"Hindu dharma" is not the law of the land,presently known as India!!!
As long as the law permits it,it would continue!!!
MR.Pendulam,this is to make clear that the state is the absolute posessor of both the properties and people and has complete rights over both either to "acquire or conscript",in the interests of both public and the Nation!!!
These "rights confered on the people and their properties" flow from the state,and could as well be withdrawn as per the statutes,by the state.!!!
Trust this clarifies the position friend!!!
Though they happened close to one another, in two different continents!!!
The reasons are obvious!!!
Friend,let us not forget the fact, that the Left front has been in power in WB for more than two decades, and as such the discredit for lack of development should be owned by them squarely,but not Mamata or BJP.
All parties are playing the same type of politics,where they are not in power.None is a holy cow in politics!!!
The humanity is divided into two catogeries basically,"EXPLOITERS & EXPLOITED OR HAVES & HAVE NOTS"!!!
This is due to the desire to "posess" all in the universe(s) by hook or crook!!!
This is the truth, despite pious talks and sermons, off and on from different quarters!!!
MR.stopperbhai,let the caste system be eliminated by law in the first instance.Secondly,a law should also be there,to "punish" whosoever speaks about it.
Let the Government cater to all poorer sections in the society, to come up the ladder by providing uniform oppurtunities.
Or else we will be talking of castes forever,much to the detriment of the people!!!
Friend as you said,all condemn the caste system which is no religion, while most people do not want to forsake it!!!
You are also right when you say that the caste system never had any "vedic sanction" to start with!!!
It has come into existance as a social order,based on professions!!!
Dear friend,the law permits the aquisition of the land,according to the rules and regulations laid down.
If some one want to take advantage of it for self interests,the law is also there to punish such people!!!
Hope that our friend MR.orbitual takes a closer examination to understand the purport of my post,before answering!!!
MR.orbitual,show us one man who has become a God, in other ways!
Friend, the matter under discussion relates to the theory of evolution of which the mentioned "DASAVATARAS"NEED TO BE TAKEN ONLY AS SYMBOLS!!!
The concept of God could be discussed seperately!!!
TRUE!
Friend,their constitution need to be approved in BHUTAN in the first place!!!
Normally the will of the people prevails within the given parameters, in a democracy!!!
MR.betterlife,one of the fundamental feature of all religions is, that a "religion is never static",which means it is dynamic.In reality it is so or not, is a different matter!!!
Now reverting back to the two new religions which you mentioned,this is to state,in a nutshell that:-
1) ISLAM means"The perfect peace that comes when one's life is surrendered to GOD!(Relates to 6th century A.D.)
This is similar to what has been told by KRISHNA in BHAGAVADGITA wherein he specifically asks one to surrender one's "all actions and fruits there off to him to be at peace"!!!
2)SIKHISM is a synthesis of the religious teachings of both "Hinduism & Islam" founded by Guru NANAK (1469-1538) and supposed to be the yougest religion!!!
This convergence on the issue,though propounded at different times,though relating to different fields, needs a closer examination!!!
MR.Pendulam,forget not the fact that we all live in a society,but not in jungles as hermits or as savages!!!
The laws of society/country are framed in such a manner,that none can infringe on the liberties/rights of others,where in one is allowed to lead his life,in conformance of those laws!!!
FARIEND,Name the new religions that were started,which you had in mind!!!
Friend,one would be lucky if one can find ones name in the electoral roles!!!
One need not be surprised,if the ghosts turn up to vote!!!
Friend,all the parties have been doing it althrough!!!
At some point of time,the world over,which were handed down to posterity to build up a "society of values"!!!
Each blaming the other for causing the communal divide as usual!!!
MR.Nariman,all foreigners have to invariably conform to the laws of the land,unless and otherwise specifically exempted!!!
MR.rebel,all people are a burden in any society that does not know how to turn the liability into an asset!!!
This is the need of the hour,to take the country forward in the shortest possible time.Only then, many of the ills confronting the nation/people, could be addressed!!!
If it wants to protect the interests of the nation,it should speak the language of the people to make its glib talk understandable!!!
Both the leaders and its followers have to shed their "egos and indulge collectively, in the service of the people",moving along with the people shoulder to shoulder.
They should lead the way for the reforms in all fields,specially in the "social field" to ensure stability of the society!!!
If appeasement is bad enough, the condemnation of a whole community is equally worse, for the acts of a few, which could well be taken care of by the law and good governance!!!
Friend,none can deny a fact!!!
Friend,request you kindly go through,specially 21 to 24 slokas of "karmayoga" in Bhagavad gita,to understand better what the Gitacharya said!!
Specially in sloka 22 he emphasises the fact that "he remains continuously engaged" in performing the "karma"!!!
Friend,it is unfortunate that the position has not changed.Well it is politics after all!!!
Friend your point is well taken!!!
While delivering a lecture in U.P,the PM added also to this a list of more "non-congress states",like Biahar,Rajastan,Madya pradesh and orissa!!!
The natural question arises,are these states diffrent entities away from India and that the centre has no or little role to play in their development???
Strange and narrow, are the ways of politicians!!!
This has been observed from your posts friend and well apreciated!!!
MR.RAJAYE,even when the Media supposed to be objective and unbiased in its reporting,resorts to "sensationalism" to promote themselves to reap the benifits,we know how the vested interests be working to perpetuate the divisions,relentlessly!!!
The best way is to provide quality education,to all ignorant sections of all sorts among the people,to overcome this deficiency in the society.
To ensure this,the government should make the education free to all sections upto 12th class atleast,in all the educational institutions viz: state funded or state aided or unaided private institutions whether they are of minority or majority,the curriculam being the same!!!
MR.better life,your arguement lacks conviction in accordance with the scriptures,which say that
"paramatman is omnipresent" and that he is in all and all are in him.This includes the "Atman" as well!!!
Paramatman may be or is beyond cause and effect,but he is the "causer" even going by the scriptures.This is undisputable as far as believers are concerned!!!
Friend,the feeling of "insecurity exists in all social ranks",due to some or all of the factors,which you mentioned in your last sentence!!!
friend,this type of reporting by the Media,which perpetuates the divisions,is least expected.It suffices a name and the post are given,since we all are Indians first!!!
MR.Nariman,it is not my contention,but reinforcement of a suggestion from WB Governor!!!
MR.iamtrue,the one who suffers from fear of insecurity has no time to perceive the unknown,in his struggle for survival.
But if he is led to believe in any thing,he/she just goes after it to get relief from the ordeals faced and to live and lead a comfortable happy life!!!
It is for this reason most of the religious conversions do take place.Ofcourse this also applies to politics.Promise some thing, to the people, they just follow the party or the leader!!!
In the words of Vivekananda,"Hungry stomachs cannot digest spiritualism"when preached!!!
NO sensible one, would claim so friend.We all who are cultured, condemn any wrong practice wherever and whenever it happens.
But yet we have darkness too in existance.It does not come into light.Light has to be taken into darkness to lead the way!!!
AGRICULTURAL LANDS FOR INDUSTRIAL PURPOSES in the country to avoid the contraversies!
Indeed it is a sensible suggestion.Let the center act upon it and enact a law on this, if needed,expeditiously!!!
ON 14th January 2007,as reported in the Media today.
"This is to be a welcome feature".
But is it necessary for the media to stress on the fact that he is a "DALIT" which is both unwarranted and unbecoming too!!!
Friend,the fear araises mostly out of an "insecured" feeling,in a world of sustenance and a struggle for existance,but not because of the unknown!!!
To overcome this insecured feeling and seek solace,one is led to believe in a faith which is supposed to provide the much needed security and comforts of life!!!
MR.iamtrue,it is true that all beings from birth to death engage themselves in an activity and each and every action produces a result,good or bad.
It is also true that the result binds the being and as such the cycle of bondage continues endlessly.Is it not friend???
Friend,let us not make them celebrities with our comments.The best way is to ignore all such blabberings!!!
MR.farroukh,corruption has become an universal phenomena presently.For your information police does not function under judiciary.Your last part of the last sentence appears to be a logical conclusion!!!
Friend, to be honest,it may add value only to our views,and bring satisfaction to us,with the interactive sessions,but all those about whom or which we are discussing are least bothered to take note of them!!!
IT was news,but what are your comments on such a resolution coming from the EU parliament???But is it mandatory and binding on India???
Let Indian parliament also pass a resolution telling the EU parliament" well prechers,heal thyself first"and we know how to solve our problems!!!
The whole problem is each one thinks I am OK but you are not OK!!!
MR.rebel,hope you are refering to "Epicurus" but not "epicures" (wrongly spelt presumably) who was born around 34o B.C and his "Epicurean ethics".Please correct me if I am wrong in this assumption!!!
Since this relates to the Greek philosophy,which is equally vast as that of Hinduism,we may treat it as a seperate subject of relative comparisons!!!
However,it may suffice to mention at this point,that the "Epicureans"adopted a middle path,between the conservatives and radicals of their times!!!
Now reverting back to the quote given, the third line of your post is apt in that "he is both able and willing" to strike at the evil at a time of his choice,but not that of the evil!!!
Friend,the text being the same,I only mentioned about different inferences and interpretations.Thanks for agreeing with this aspect.BTW!!!
The hitherto unknown.In the former case we have followers of a faith and in the later case we have seekers and leaders mostly!!!
MR.Orbitual,when Hinduism is not a religion,unlike others,where is the question off dispelling or expelling from the list of religions???
For your information,Hindus neither issue any FATWAS nor blindly follow them even if such is the case!!!
As we all know, despite condemnations of the bad practices,things happen still in a few pockets, where old customs and ignorance prevails!!!
Dear friend, it was no answer but a querry you posted on 18th @ 13-42 hrs,for which I responded on the same date @ 17-08 hrs.
The same are still available on this board down below.
Even now, you may respond to my question.Ofcourse it is your choice friend!!!
MR.betterlife,when you say the causer is at the center of creation,this negates the principle of "omnipresence" of the creator/causer/God etc! is it not my friend???
The subject is being discussed threadbare,with all sincierty and there is no casuality,on my part!!!
We are only trying to understand several view points in this regard, and trying to remove certain ambiguities which have crept into the faiths,without loosing sight of the core concepts.
I earnestly believe in "introspection,and an analytical approch" so as to enable the course corrections wherever needed!!!
To continue the discussions or not is a choice of yours!!!BTW!!!
Thank you MR.betterlife for your agreement with the expressed views!!!
If it is a problem the word "surmountable" has no meaning.It may look like a problem for all non-starters!!!
MR.Jagannathpandey,then how come the science and all religions advanced their own theories about creation???As per you all these should be a sham,including the concept of GOD!!!
Friend,your glee indicates that you explored it and found it.Please share it with all!!!
Friend,no policy satisfies all.It is considered good if a majority of people gets benifitted by a policy!!!
All problems are surmountable and will have solutions if one has the will!!!
MR.Jagannathpandey,in our democracy we have about one billion dreamers for holding the top offices of power.Nothing wrong with their aspirations!!!
Let us wish all of them the best of luck and await whose dream gets fulfilled!!!
MR.Jagannath pandey,my comments do apply to all religious concepts and practices!!!
The authority to issue FATWA or any such such thing has not been bestowed on me.I do not know whether you are armed with the authority!!!BTW!!!
Friend,even our present discussions are based on the perceptions only on a concept!!!
QUITE POSSIBLE FRIEND!!!
MR.betterlife,going by "Manu smriti",it is evident that the "dharma sastras" have come into existance only after the creation,which drew their inspiration from "Vedas" which are known as "shrutis"!!!
This means they had a begining and hence not "eternal" as you say!!!
It has also been made clear in the "Manu smriti" that these "Dharmas" change in each "yuga" from the four padas in 'krutayuga' to a 'single pada'in 'kaliyuga'!!!
This means,besides change they also have an end!!!
Trust this clarifies!!!
MR.betterlife,else where,you mentioned sanatan dharma as "fundamental dharmic principles" and my question in answer was "what are these"???
Friend,how can any thing exist in "sunyata" i.e;vaccum???
The word "nirvana" is used to denote an end and not akin to "sunyata"!!!
Friend,going by the scriptures the law of "karma" is in tune with the laws of the nature, and hence both the action and reaction are settled matters,irrespective of the positioning of an "equilbrium state" as far as an individual is concerned!!!
Is it not???
MR.rebel,in both the cases it is presumptory only,following a hypothesis and had their own logical deductions!!!
As of today most of the scientists do not agree with "DARWIN'S theory of evolution" and say it is flawed!!!
Center of what and where is it precisely located friend???
An excellent satire.Thank you MR.Salemsrini!!!
True friend! Or else,we would not have had the worldwide population explosion!!!
Friend,then how come we have different schools,the text being the same???
Friend neither you nor MR.better life have answered my questions as yet!!!
Friend,it is a pleasure to await more details from you.BTW!!!
Friend,from the law of nothingness only,all things have come into being,which means the changes did take place.This makes your arguement untenable!!!
Friend,the causer having set in motion the natural law of " cause and effect or action and reaction" which follows the pattern,would not intervene at each and every stage, in the process,unlike our four pillars of the constitution!!!
Friend,the delay mught have been caused due to their active considerations.Thank those concerned for having allowed them to pass finally!!!
Friend,that might be the opinion of the practioners but not that of the original principal concepts!!!
MR.betterlife,earlier you mentioned else where, that this "sanatan dhrma is eternal",which means a thing that does not change.In the first place how did it come into existance and from what time???
But the scriptures say,that this"sanatan dharma changes" as per times,places,situations and people too!!!
What is this contradiction??? can you throw light on this???
Friends the very fact that all our posts have appeared on this MB tells a different tale.We have been discussing on various issues.
May be it is possible where the post by exception is considered as offensive,it may not be appearing for the obvious reasons!!!
As such nothing should stop us to continue our discussions in a logical and reasonable manner!!!
MR.betterlife,the "creator" evidently would not have created good and bad people.It has been also stated in the scriptures that this "duality" vanishes for one who treats all with "equanimity"!!!
Hence this "duality" is only appearant but not real!!!
FRIEND,what is this "cosmic law",the law of the nature??? can you please elaborate!!!
Friend,it is fine that "karma" follows a natural law of "cause and effect or action and reaction".
But in the process it seems,you have overlooked the main factor i.e; the "causer"!!!
Friend,if the betterment is going on in the backward community of India,what is there to complain about???
Friend,it is news that superior varnas enjoyed 100% reservations!!!
When was that period friend???
None is afraid even if the quotas are raised to 100% friend.In fact all should welcome it!!!
Normally they should, for all the followers of theism believe in the concept of one god and universal love!!!
This being the case,if we still have the divisions and hatred among the people/societies,they are chiefly attributable to "social and economic" factors,known as "HAVES AND HAVE NOTS"!!!
Politicians exploit these divisions by mixing them up with the religions,to their advantage,as people are more suseptible for "emotional surges"!!!
Silence has a great value friend!!!
Each one calls the other a thief,a violator of the laws in amassing hundreds of acres of the lands of all types,and for misusing the power etc!!!
People wonder, whether we have any governance and administration in our country,the way the nexus between politicians,babus and criminals existing is any indication!!!
friend,despite the" beauty of dharma" as you mentioned,did the humans live and let others live with peace and harmony???
Take any age known to the mankind,the conflicts did exist,the human nature being the same!!!
Thank you friend! I never said we do not have any SANSKRIT scholars whether inside or out side who come up with their own perceptions.
This is not to belittle their contributions which are at variance in their inferences or imterpretations!!!
This point alone is highlighted!!!
MR.betterlife,a small correction in your first sentence."Faith is a conviction and oblivious to any sensory perceptions",which are attributable for people as you rightly said,in your second sentence!!!BTW!
Friend,late MR.periyar was aganist all sorts of idol worship too.Then how come his followers tried to install his statues and start worshipping them!!!
Of course the same applies to all the statues of seecular leaders,both living and dead!!!
MR.rebel,it is not clear from your post "what is it you are challenging"???
MR.betterlife,as per the scriptures this "sanatan dharma" varies with times and people as well!!!
Please correct me, if I am wrong that there is no clear cut definition of "dharma" available,as is the case with time!!!
Friend,it is too bad.Worse is that it happened in a foreign country.It only proves that the old habits die hard!!!
FRIEND,thank you for providing us all with some funfare.Enjoyed!!!
Friend,the former is the outcome of a conviction in the faith and the later is born out of emotions,though the end result is the same!!!
Friend,it is due to "ignorance and lack of conviction in the concept of the very faith" !!!
We learn through the discussions friend!!!
Friend,you may not be far off the mark, from the historical facts,provided "Hinduism" is taken only as a "philosophy"that guides humanity to live and lead a peaceful and harmonious life, with its enlightened and noble thoughts,but not as a religion!!!
But the problem is, that all its scriptures belong to the oldest "SANSKRIT"language,which is greek and latin to the present generation.This in turn is resulting in distorted inferences and interpretations by the learned few who are familiar with SANSKRIT,whereby,the people stand confused!!!
Add this to the fact that under "HINDUISM" people enjoy the absolute freedom, fortunately or unfortunately,which is not the case with others!!!
This is the crux of the problem,in not able to organise these people under one roof, unlike others!!!
Friend,there could be exceptions here and there,but it is a fact of life!!!
Friend,religion means (1) a belief in a super human controlling power,especially in a personal GOD or GODS entitled to obedience and worship (2)expression of this in worship (3)particular system of faith and worship (4)life inder monastic vows (5)thing one is devoted to!!!
Ideologies,customs,rituals,dresses and marriage institutions araise out of their social conditions mainly,and very rarely fits into the concept of a superpower and individual relationship,in the way it is meant!!!
Let us stay focused to the concept of a belief in a super human power where one to one relationship is the corner stone of any religion,be it an individual or a group!!!
You are quite welcome in exchanging the views accordingly!!!
Friend,the SC has made it clear that schedule 9 is not a carpet umbrella to push all bills under it!!!
Who cares how the world goes,as long as we cling on to the stoneage mind set and prefer to live perpetually in darkness!!!
In other words,one is free to lead one's life of his choice,as long as such an activity conforms to the laws of the land.Hope you would also agree friend!!!
It is a happy augary to note from today's reports,that the dalits entry into this temple has been resolved.
Let us hope such incidents will not recurr any where else!!!
MR.Atin 7675,it is a game of sorts which the politicians play,with one's own rules.Rarely it is logical!!!
MR.better life,what are these "fundamental dharmic principles" you mentioned and which is the origin for them???
Friend, as we are discussing about religions,where and how do the "social reforms" fit into the scheme of things???
Friend, my reference to sanatan dharma has been made in the context of your introduction of this word while dealing with Hinduism,not that this word is new to me!!!
Well,now please tell us whether these principles of "sanatan dharma" have been or are being applied "uniformly" in all cases,and at all the times!!!
Friend,any practice is based on some thing,may be a principle,belief or faith etc,and it can not exist in a vaccum!!!
Don't you think that a society which remains unconcerned to the travails of another fellow being is worth shunning.
What is the use of beating our drums of a glorious past,while living a life of no purpose.
Yes the mind set is to be changed,but by whom is the question?should it not be voulantary with a self discipline and conforming to basic ethics and values???
Friend,what for such a living,which has lost its way?Relative comparisons may satisfy our egos,but will not lead us to light!!!
MR.betterlife,you mean to say that this "sanatan dharma" has been the first religion(its nearest word)and would remain so eternally!!!
If so why the society has been touching its Nadir off and on???
friend,we have seen a number of elections,with not much of a change!
Of course,one has to live on hope only!!!
Friend,do'nt you think it is worth stirring/churning,if we are going to get the "Nector" out of it???
MR.betterlife, as per your statement, it is clear that "HINDUISM" is neither a religion nor a way of life and new thing known as "sanatan dharma" has been coined in its place!!!
Even this sanatan dharma cannot be called as a religion,but is based on principles, in your own words.
In other words,it is a sort of compendium which teaches the way of life,ofcourse again based on principles.
This means,that "HINDUS" do not have a religion,but has a way of life,based on sanatan dhrma or principles of dharma.
The basic principle as we understand,emphasises,the well being of all the people who are all equal before god.This concept is very noble and to be upheld at all times,by all.
But friend,again this principle of "dharma" has been,is and would be a "varying factor" as applicable to different individuals or groups and hence is no constant factor and as such, is inconsistent.
This is the great paradox friend!!!
It is quite interesting to see that off and on a lot of discussions revolve around religions.
It would satisfy the "curiosity" of several friends,if some one could throw light in this context,leading to an enlightened discussion,for mutual benift!!!
DEAR MR.rebel,your earlier views on Hinduism have been duly noted and well known!!!
perceptions vary friend.That is the beauty of discussions!!!
None objects for individual choices in performing one's own pooja rituals,or even otherwise.
But when we say it is a religion,then it does not confine to just an individual and a group or community of the same faith comes into the picture,which calls for commonality and uniformity!!!
Friend,thanks for making your postion clear that "hinduism" is a religion,but not a way of life.We can discuss this as a seperate issue!!!
Thank you for making your position clear and let us await responses from other friends as well!!!
Friend,you mean to say on the foundations of the demolished temples,presumably.
It is quite possible,for, it could have been a victor's celebrations in all such cases,human nature being what it is at all times,however much one detests them!!!
Yet people remain as mute spectators!!!
Friends,these attitudes and approches are the main reason for "self centeredness and divisions"among the Hindus!!!
This being so, they continue to remain as the most disorganised lot,unlike others!!!
This suits the politicians to exploit these divisions in the society,much to the determent of the people's welfare!!!
This is the reality,whether one agrees or not!!!
Friend, even today,the vaishnavites do not enter the temples of shivaites or mix with them or dine with them.Can you deny this???
Friend,all castes,above the SC/STs are considered to be upper castes.
Before prceeding further with regard to the sanction,please let us know whether you consider "HINDUISM" as a "religion or a way of life"!!!
Once again!!!
What should matter is, if the people do not realise it, friend!!!
At the behest of the upper castes as reported!If this is "hindutva" a way of life,it is as good as dead!!!
Let it not be forgotten that the SC/STs are a part of the same faith and are the creation of god!!!
No wonder "Hinduism" whatever it is, only lives in the past and declines/decays in the future,if these trends are allowed to continue!!!
To give up the fast and says,she would take on the centre too, shortly!!!
Friend one symbol suffices to practise!!!
Did she mention "which religion"???
May be his statement is directed aganist his fellow members in the house!!!
people do have a "right to protest under the constitution,more so in a peaceful manner"!!!
This right cannot be wished away!!!
Friend,the point in question is about the symbol "for meditation" but not meditation,for if one could meditate,there is no more the need of the symbol!!!
People of all sections need to shed their "bystander's apathy,feudal mind set and slavish mentality",and work together for the upliftment of the poor!!!
People should take advantage of the laws for spreading the awareness of the much needed reforms in all walks of life!!!
The leaders should inculcate and impart a value system,to the people,than inciting them to take to agitations too often,for their survival alone!!!
MAIN CAUSE OF SEVERAL ILLS OF THE SOCIETY since ages!!!
A good point friend.But the only difference then and now is the scales are turned the other way!!!
WHY would the anti-social elements do indulge in these acts and at whose behest? We are only carried away by the act leaving the cause or causer!!!
Friend if so,why not the government provide succur to all such people uniformly, and instead why is it trying to pamper a few groups,there by ensuring divisions in the society further and further???Is it not just vote bank politics???
These attitudes and approches would harm the interests of the people themselves in the long run!!!
Friend it is a historical fact that those who destroyed the temples and the idols belong to a faith which does not believe in IDOL worship.But the same faith also forbids to raise their prayer MASJIDS over such ruins and for sure no prayers are offered even if a mosque has been raised to commemorate some one!!!
Are you sure that prayers are being offered at the place which you mentioned???
Friend,even for concentrating on the formless,a single form of IDOL is enough.Multitude of IDOL forms will only distrub the concentration,besides adding confusion and chaos, among the followers of the same faith itself.This is not desirable!!!
Regarding your coments vide the second para,one can have it in a central place or just a few more could be added if the logistics do not permit only one!!!
Friend,let us not forget the fact that all places of worship/prayer have been built and are being built in public places only!!!
There is nothing new friend, for it has been going on since independence or shall we say even before that!!!
Friend by the time the trial ends,these people will not be there to be tried.The trial automatically falls to the ground!!!
People install them first and pull them down later.Both are noval ways of expressing assent and dissent!!!
MR.betterlife,that is the point exactly.When we have too many,any defilement or defacing to any or all spurs the sentiments too often!!1
It makes little difference whether a multitude of IDOLS are placed in a temple or build several temples for each IDOL to be worshiped!!!
Instead of digging many small pot holes in the land to collect water in small drops, by all people,better to have one deep well dug up that gives a sustained and periniel water to quench the thirst of several people!!!
ON THE MERCY PETITION!!!
People should behold to him,for allowing the law to take its own course!!!
Since the members of the victims families are unable to digest the abnormal delay in doing justice,they "returned the gallantry awards" presented to them in the absence of those soldiers/police,who sacrificed their lives to protect the parliament and its members,to the HON'BLE President!!!
By governance,it is meant,that the government should be unbiased and dispassionate in working for the welfare of the people and good of the country!!!
Friend,perceptions change with the change of governments.From what you mentioned, it is not clear who gave the permission and when!!!
Possibly,the case would have been different,if it relates to other faiths!!!
Friend the same is applicable to several others as well unfortunately!!!
All such petty leaders are concerned only about their welfare,but not the welfare of the people!!!
Friend,the comments of the first para are very much desirable and stand out as IDEALS,which are rarely attained!!!
Regarding the comments at second para,it is not a "free for all" situation and it is the responsibility of the government to ensure a fair distribution of the resources uniformly!!!
MR.betterlife,it is needless to mention that worshipping of a multitude of "IDOLS" brings in an automatic association and affinity,which becomes quite intolerent,when the sentiments attached to the affinity are attacked.
This is the main reason for all the outbursts,which disturb the harmony in the society!!!
Well there could be other reasons possibly as you mentioned,which would be exploited by the vested interests at all times!!!
Questions could be posed by any one in the street too,for it does not cost a dime!!!
The courts go by facts and on satisfaction only accords the punishment,coomensurate with the crime!!!
Friend,then what is the case actually???Better you go through the detailed post of our friend RMaran above,in this regard as well!!!
Friend,to put it prcisely we have been worshippers of a multitude of "IDOLS" since centuries,leading to fragmentation of our society!!!
Which means we have too many tritors among our producers.Even then what our IB & ED are doing about the set ups???
Friend what would the people do holding that ball and what is the name of this game which would ensure "equality"???
FRIEND,when all including the modern models as you mentioned,failed to deliver "social justice",what does it mean,literally,economically and socially???
MR.Nariman,upto which level and degree should this "empowerment of deprived people" should go and within what time frame??? Forget not the fact that we would be completing about six decades after independence shortly!!!
If this time is not enough,please tell how many more centuries it would take to usher in the "social justice"!!!
It is a good question! But the fact of the matter is whether in all such presumed cases,people have valid historical proofs to substantiate such claims!!!
Friend,some law exists in this regard.If not your suggestion is welcome to bar all trouble makers in this context!!!
Friend,if the installation was done with in the precincts of the temple,it is highly objectionable.
But if it is done away from the four walls of the temple o a site which is public property,with the requsite permissions,none could question it!!!
Please clarify,the position precisely!!!
How is it going to help the farmers,by burning their crops???
Friend,some are above the laws as the dictum goes!!!
This is why most of the humanity suffers!!!
Friend,nothing could be done,by any one,if the aquisition is in the "larger public interests"!!!
At best one can cry, to get a better compensation,which would be decided in accordance with the rules and regulations prevailing at that time,by the government!!!
In place of the NHRC,whose findings and actions are inciting in nature and silent on responsibilities!!!
This will go a long way in bringing an awareness among the people that 'rights devoid of any responsibilty" have no meaning for bettering their lives!!!
All jump,but only one that takes a long jump wins!!!
They only follow the foot prints of the elders and go down the drain in future!!!
And no wonder, if the same is followed in other states all over the country,to incite the people and cash on the emotions of the people,by the vested interests!!!
Let people be alert and vigilant!!!
The purport of the message is to convey that no political parties should indulge in "Agitations" aganist any developmental activity undertaken in the larger public interests,in any state,just for the heck of it, to gain cheap popularity friend!!!
True!!!
IN POWER AGANIST ANY DEVELOPMENTAL PROGRAM,while practising just the same where they are in power!!!
This is no way to serve the nation and the people.It is high time that they put an end for such hypocratic practices!!!
..SHOULD HAVE THE FIRST RIGHT TO RESOURCES".Or was it an intended stress,there by raising a controversy keeping an eye on the votebank politics???
This indulgence in cheap politics is least expected from an honest man like him!!!
Can the parties agree for such a proposition!!!
Friend,they are too old to learn new lessons.Old habits die hard!!!
MR.Nariman,you are right on dot with the first para,cautioning the LEFT FRONT not to adopt "double standards".
Regarding your apprehensions expressed in second para,the WB CM has said he is for open discussions on this.Let us not forget the fact that both Agriculture and Industry have to coexist in the same land of ours, as you said.
Going by what you say,it sounds advisible that all people, better opt for Agriculture,the income of which is non-taxable.This facilitates EXPORT of our agricultural produce and import of our Industrial needs,where by, we may have a sustained uniform economic growth or otherwise!!!
Yes,this economic model too could be given a try.Why not friend???
For execution in implementation for the larger public interests in the long range!!!
It means several things to several people.Some say it is absolute "equality" from top to bottom,some say it is "equal oppurtunities" being made available to all to grow some say it is respecting "all faiths" with their attendant laws,which over ride the laws of the land and some say application of the laws of the land uniformly to all without fear or favour etc!!!
Whatever it is remains as an "utopian ideal",
in all societies.Hope the research scholars would come with an agreed formula how to make it possible!!!
MR.rebel,which government you want to go???
A very valid point.But friend in all this,slowly but surely a "pattern" is coming out from the chain of the events that happened so far!!!
There is an all round fall in the value systems in all walks of life and that includes the people as well!!!
Yet, we call "ours is the largest democracy"!!!
MR.Kureela,by identifying "DALITS" with a few castes,who are the part of the same system,the cause is lost even before the reformation is statrted,for "DALITS" exist all over the world.
When there is no clarity of any ideal or thought is not clear,the very pusrpose will be the casuality!!!
MR.Sheldon,the booming economy you are speaking of is only one facet of the society.Life has several facets to reckon with!!!
Friend,madness has many forms, to express itself!!!
Friend,better MR.Ramvilas paswan begin to talk in terms of the "Eradication of the caste system instead of its perpetuation".!!!
May be, they are trying to serve the cause of "secularism" By attacking poor MR.Kaif's house,as though he is solely responsible for the Indian team's performance!!!
Friend it is easier said than done.People and the country should be lucky to have a man like ABDUL KALAM whose fragrance of simplicity and humility,with no false airs,who is applauded,all over, as their president!!!
In the name of the same, without forsaking their identities/affinities!!!
Friend it is better to ignore all such cases,instead of indulging in an unwarranted verbal duels!!!
The courts and enforcing machinery have to go by the law!!!
The human rights activists and members of the constituent assembly ,should have raised their voices aganist the law,before its enactment and adoptaion of the constitution,and "seen to its removal from the statutes, then itself.
They cannot adopt double standards to suit convieniences!!!
Friend,it is for the head to govern effectively,so that things fall in their proper places!!!
Please go ahead with your choice friend!!!
They could be shown and none prevents!!!
Friend,this disagreement is not a fresh one.It has been coming since NEHRUVIAN times with regard to the Macmohan boundary line drawn in preindependent years.
If parliament has to pass a resolution every time on each state,that it is an integral part of INDIA from time to time,since some one has said something,it sounds absurd and ridiculous as well!!!
His sitting on floor!!!
Friend,none gave a Hindu-Muslim slant.The question is wherher the President of India as such could opt to sit along with all others on floor or any protocol prohibhits it!!!
The CPI felt it is a "National insult"!!!
It is enough if people say as an answer Yes or No!!!
Yes! The whole system has to be collectively "changed"!!!
That is quite unfortunate.This lapse is not expected from an impartial and objective media friend.They should present the facts with no slant or bias!!!
A valid point!
How do you intend the citizens to perform this responsibility? How do they keep watch on the movements of such people and with what mechanism at their disposal???
What stops the government from taking the requsite steps expedtiously in all the areas you mentioned???
Or, are the people to live with the same routine exsuses offered and the lengthy speeches made???
Yes,say the people.Even our IB chief feels so,which he openly advocated in a recent meeting and in the presence of our PM who remained silent.
May be he is contemplating on the issue!!!
It happened at Puttaparthi,when the president sat on the floor along with others and the CPI calls it as a "NATIONAL INSULT"!!!
Originally when our constitution came into being,these reservations were intended only to "Scheduled castes and tribes,that too only for a specified period of ten years" to the best of knowledge.I stand to be corrected if I am wrong!
It is much later,that a list of OBC's has come into existance,which is getting enlarged from time to time.Mostly all parties have been supporters of this process.
When the overall reservations have crossed the 50% mark,the SC has ruled that the over all% of all such reservations should not cross 50%.
Later the 33% women's reservations were made too ( hopefully within the specified limit of 50%).
Now the demands are for reservations based on religions and we have several religions flourishing in INDIA.
No one knows,how the society would look like,in future, with so many types of reservations ever on the increase,with merit being the casuality!!!
This is the most unfortunate part!!!
With castes,as though there is a seperate caste by name "DALITS" is quite unfortunate,which adds to the confusion,more so by THE HINDU daily,in its today's publication.
This relates to the atrocities committed aganist "scheduled castes and scheduled tribes" in KARNATAKA state.All should condemn this act and come forward to avoid such inhuman recurrences!!!
The government at all levels should act with firmness and enforce the laws with out fear or favour!!!
I do remember friend.All enlightened people have said similar thing if not in the same words!!!
NO!This does not mean, we should continue to loose our valued and dear soldiers for all times to come.It might be the case on the otherside also.Wisdom should dawn on both sides to avoid any recurrence of such unpleasant situations!!!
This will be setting up a very bad precedent.It has been an integral part of INDIA and shall remain so,with a few adjustments of the boundary line,if warranted!!!
Are you sure it didn't as it stands???
Well said friend!
Do DALITS have a clan? What is it supposed to be,
a caste or a class or a religion or refugees from a different country???
Friend,my question was different which you may go through again and tell "who are all DALITS"???
So,the donkey had its solution finally.Let us all pray for the peace of its soul!!!
Mr.Kumar the issue and stress of mine relates to the possibilities and likely changes with the times and is no way connected to ideologies.Let there be no confusion!!!
Friend,does this mean that all other states barring these two states have all the mineral wealths and most prosperous???Does this also mean,that people in other states are void of desperations,frustations and fully contended lot???
Better we leave this matter to the people of NEPAL!!!
This is the self deception at the best! No state has been "pampered like J&K" by all the successive governments at the centre!!!
Very true friend!The choice rests with the individual.As we know both in terms of spirituality and science "Thoughts activate" and cause disturbance.It is much easier to pursue them,but very difficult to still them,in which state only "peace" prevails!!!
The same principle and option is also available to us also,when it is said joint research.This facilitates a twoway trafic!!!
People are after science for comforts and spirituality for solace with inner peace,which no comfort could provide. Both the planes are intertwined,the subject(individual) being the same!!!
That is why,"Hindu tenets" prescribe "DHARMA,ARTHA,KAMA,AND MOKSHA" are the four stages which one has to follow and which none can escape either.The same might be the case with others with some variances here and there!!!
True! All of us have a way of life either of "conformances or no conformances" to the concepts,precepts,principles,codes rules,laws etc!!!
Friend,so is the case with several sciences.A thing proved once is again disproved by some one later and the earlier one becomes obsolate.As we persist with our quests both in "spiritual and material planes" we may or may not end up with new theories.Both are possible while we search for the "Truth and knowledge"!!!
Friend,my statements in this reagard all stress the same possibility with time.If mistrust replaced the trust,it could happen vice versa too.Thank you for your convergence.BTW!!!
Friend, how about vietnam that got unified? How about Yugoslavia that got divided? How about the crumbling of colonial empires,which existed once?
All things change in a dynamic world and nothing is stagnant!!!
Friend,all are possible in time.Is it not a fact that several countries which got divided in the past joined together again???
Only possible and probable solutions that might emerge have been mentioned!!!
It is your pleasure to stick to your perceptions and there is nothing wrong with it!!!
Hope those who are empowered to grant clemency have understood it!!!
IT is for the PM and congress president to understand the implications of his statement as reported in a news channel!!!
So nothing changes unless and untill a new system comes into being and all systems, only last for a while, giving place to new!!!
The ruling class remain the same at all times.The people are equally responsible for the divisions in society,in trying to protect their vested interests at the cost of others.
To put it prcisely,the alround "Exploitation" is total,absolute and complete!!!
Friend,the topic given is a onesided version,the truth of which need to be established in courts.In this regard both the prosecution and defence counsels have an equal oppurtunity to examine or cross examine each other's witnesses,and if needed their own witnesses.
No sides are taken and we have to reckon with the court proceedures and endure the same!!!
Friend,despite my posers several times on this board,I am yet to understand,who all constitute or come under the category of DALITS.Do they belong to a caste or class or religion or a race etc???
Can you kindly throw light on this for a fruitful discussion!!!
Friend,factual and objective reporting sans sentationalism,of an event with due regards to the version from both or all sides is expected!!!
WHICH BUDDHA???
RELIGION gives only edicts to pursue what is most desirable,while the reality could be otherwise at times,due to wrong practices!!!
Friend,is it not the same case with the science too? Can you deny that???
Friend all humans are "conditioned" animals too as is said.Preaching is one thing and practicing it is another matter!!!
Friend my qustion relates to "sustenence" of one self with or without religion!Please answer straight if you have one!!!
Why are you trying to deflect from the point which you yourself raised earlier???
Friend,from your own statement it is clear that even the sciences start with a hypothesis and continues their explorations with the logical means at its disposal,with no end ,which also applies to the spiritual approch.It is an ever lasting quest at all times in both the cases.They are complimentary to each other but necessarily contradictory!!!
Yes! Life is a complex thing to understand and this lack of understanding is the root cause for all cross currents in one's own life,irrespective of the fact,who leads which type of life and where!!!
Thank you.As you said, yes it is a cherished goal or ideal only,very rarely realised in the rarest of the cases!!!
Friend,hope, when we say "salvation" generally it relates to the spiritual plane.The "body" which is matter that changes its forms with the passage of time,is also a part fo the same "supreme spirit".If that is the case which salvation and bliss are we speaking about?
In other words, SALVATION is a word arising out of our own desperations,dejections and frustions resulting from one's own desires and experiences and again a desired state to escape the ordeals of life.Hence it relates only to a material plane mistakenly spoken in terms of spirituality!!!
Friend we unfortunately have the same formats of the British times,who believed in divide and rule policy.There has not been any clear perception even now among Hindus themselves, on whether the "so called hinduism is a way of life or a culture or a religion"!!!
Friend, the case is same, for both the genders in facing a set of ackward and humiliating questions in court,to the extent the law permits.Please remember, very rarely, an accused be it he or she admits and pleads guilty of the crime in a court!!!
What is ina name as long as the facts remain the same???
There could be several means to find a solution and your suggestion is one!!!
Who knows that in future,we may have a (federal) united states of all south Asia,(USSA)just like the USA or alternatively both INDIA & PAKISTAN may accept the reality and convert the existing LOC into an international border finally!!!
It has been the same case with all other states as well!!!
Friend,the facts of history speak for themselves,as to INDIA'S authority relating to J&K and needs no repeation.None called all the Kashmiris as terrorists.They do exist even in other nations and societies.As for J& K CM's comments,he is bound by the constitutional oath and act accordingly!!!
Friends, are we not taliking to our foes/rivals, both nationally and internationally and celebrate an event after an understanding has been reached???
Time for all Nepalese to celebrate and move forward!!!
Friend,judges are supposed not to be inflenced by public opinion.But the problems crop up due to public agitational approches,as it happened in DELHI recently!!!
Dispute relates to the past.We have come a long way over since 1947-48 from expecting a UN solution to the present wuest for a bilateral solution as of now. We have to wait to see what future unfolds!!!
These differing judgements arise,"the crime being same in effect",because of differering factors and circumstances,which led one to commit the crime!!!
This has to viewed in the context of his earlier plea for clemency,for understanding the related significance!!!
"SALVATION" from what friend? As per Bhagavadgita,the duality or plurality are only appearant,while in reality it is only singularity and that both the cause and effect emanate from the same causer!!!
Is it a coincidence that all faiths whose origins happens to be BHARAT/HINDUSTAN/INDIA,follow "the law of KARMA"???
Who is the master?Is it the spirit,or mind or body that controls the total activity???
Friend,What is "DHARMA" according to you? Please clarify which "JAIMINI" precisely you are refering to? Desirable goal is an ideal. Any directions/commands given to achieve the goal should be treated as guidelines alone!!!
Fine.But it is the responsibility of parents and people to bring pressure on the government in this regard,lest the tendency is to take things for granted and that every thing is OK!!!
Well you know what happens specially when people are interested in sensationalism than being sensible!!!
It is good if Media heighlights the event,without interfereing with the investigations,or indulging in "trial by the media" that would be prejucicial for the law to take its own course!!!
God knows what prompted him to say this, much to the chargin of both PM and congress president!!!
Said in the past regarding the solution of J&K problem has been only jugglery/trick of words???
Both the PM and UPA chair person owe an explanation to the people and nation,clarifying the exact position and take immidiete suitable action!!!
If what has been stated by the J&K CM is true,this is nothing but betryal of the nation and its people!!!
FRIEND,IT STANDS DULY ANSWERED ABOVE.Now the turn is yours!!!
Friend,going by your own statements and several others like you,It is amply clear that "HINDUISM" is not a religion,but a way of life.
If this be so, why to compare it with other religions and their practices??? A way of life could be anything and always is of one's choice,where the commonality vanishes!!!
In all societies,there are varying laws for governance and a codes of conduct prescribed for their members to have harmony,which varies with one's own cultures,not necessarily relating to religions!!!
It is beyond the comprehension of any one, when it has become a fashion to mix up the caste, with class and religion, for all the three have different connotations!!!
What ever it is,wonder whether those who call them as DALITS know atleast something about the religion except by name,when they intend to convert to it!!!
Friend may like to educate on this aspect!!!
Friend,what is the share of parents in this loading pattern? Why should they be passive and silent spectators???Don't they have any role to play as responsible parents and citizens in shaping up the future citizens???
This type and style of reporting only heightens the hatred in the society,when the uniformity and objectivity are lost!!!
Friend,they are a part of the same system."EYE FOR EYE" will be ultimately a land of the blind if followed!!!
Fight for land is different from a religion!!!
Friend, in which century are you?The present government is led by UPA,whose chairperson is not a Hindu,and ably supported by all the left,secular and democratic parties!!!
Which branch of BUDDHISM are you refering to friend???
Is it a curtain raiser for a new drama???
Good.That is how we have come this far!!!
This is the view held by by most people!!!
How could HINDUISM be compared then,whenever debating on "religious matters" relating to others???
Friend we are all in time and that incldes the ebb and tides as well!!!
The question is "spirit being the same" why one has the will and the other not?What is the cause of this relative difference???
Religion only tells,while it is people who act to suit their convieniences.There lies the problem!!!
Friend for arguements sake, let us accept that the infinite spirit exists in all and every where. The question is why it is in conflict with itself???
Request all friends to deliberate on this point!!!
The reality is "we survive at the cost of others".With out our being, there is neither compassion nor peace to talk about or fight about!!!
Friend,how are you surviving or in existance religion or no religion??? Think and answer!!!
Friends,if we care to observe the nature closely,we find each one gives out or takes in as food from the other species,which are living beings!!!
Mostly what one throws out is accepted as food by the other!!!
Friend all such rites are performed at all times in pusuit of a "selfish" goal to appease some one or the other.The similar practices continue even today to appease some one or the other, though varying in form, for the same selfish goals,though not sanctified by the laws of the land!!!
To put it precisely it is nothing but "exploitation" by the vested interests,not withstanding any laws,be it religious or social etc!!!
Forget about GOD friend. Who cares whether he exists or not!Let us be rational and go by science which is supposed to be void of any emotions.What does it say about the "creation" or things coming into being???Has it said its final world on this and the whole gambit of the governing scientific laws??? Or is it still gropping in the dark to unravel the so called mysteries of the universe(s)???
If science does not believe in the concept of an unifying force,call it GOD or by what ever name one chooses,why to go after the same with words like "quantum physics and unitary magnetic field etc"???
Did science explain fully the behavioural and psychological aspects,which happens to be the main cause of various conflicts and wars???
Friend,religions only tell about moral or ethical values which could bring in harmony and peace either to an individual or society at large.It is not its fault if the practioners opt to go the other way.Same is the case with any laws and injunctions in any society!!!
Friend,to put it precisely for understanding purposes,what is body without "soul"???So it goes without saying that the two are seperate and body has no chetana as such.The vocabulary and fine disection os such terms as "intellect,mind and body" have no relevance in the absence of the soul.
It is agreed,as stated by you that the soul is free at all times.Hence any slavery is applicable to the "body,mind and intellect" which function only with the help of the soul which is free.
As such,the words "slavery or freedom " only denote an underlying state of mind or feeling where even the intellect is relegated to the back.
This much could be seen from the "shankara-chandala (ISHWAR) SAMVADA,if one cares to understand the distinction. BTW!!!
iT is good the government wanted to have a data on the extent of backwardness of the people.But why to limit it to a particular religion?Does this mean that there is no backwardness with respect to people in all other religions and all those are very or more prosperous and that the government has the full data in respect of them to substantiate the facts???
People really wonder and the government owes an explanation to its people and nation as well in this regard!!!
In otherwords it goes with one's perceptions alone!!!
Friend,assuming one has a "soul and it is free",how can we call one as a slave???It is just the circumstances in both the cases,to which one adopts either out of choice or even otherwise!!!
Friend all haulcinations are feelings too and are formless as well.That being the case how do we differentiate between "truth and untruth"???
Either we have to adopt a "very intellectually logical and rational deduction process or a scientific basis after experimentation"!!!
The choice goes with faith in both the cases,since both start with a "hypothesis"!!!
Friends,as swami Vivekananda has said,"Hungry stomachs cannot digest any of the spiritual.religious preachings".None objects if one has time to pursue and seek the truth.It could be anybody's option!!!
Friend,the teacher in a class room tells the same to all his pupils.What one learns out of it goes with the understanding capabilities of each one.Can we blame the teacher for this???
It is a question of differing perceptions friend.Neither BUDDHA'S nor VEDIC teachings have any finality.It has been an endless quest to know the unknown!!!
Friend, what do you say for the killings during wars or even otherwise,under the civilised laws???
unfortunately,in certain religious practices even the humans are sacrificed.At times this madness knows no limits in both the cases!!!
Since both are grilled within the purview of the laws!!!
As per Ramayana scripture SITA never felt so and in fact Rama's stature has gone up in her mind!!!
In the Ramayana scripture Rama as a person never doubted the chastity of SITA.It is a different matter as a king/ruler he led his subjects by example and for posterity as how the ruler should behave!!!
It is good, it has been accepted by the senate and there are wworm exchanges.It is yet to become a bill after crossing the next hurdle in congress,addressing the concerns of INDIA,before their prsident approves it.Let there be an earnest hope ALROUND!!!
Friend,the problem is not so much with population,but it is with endless litigation!!!
None has over ruled any thing.After the verdict, there is a process,permited by the laws and constitution,which is being looked into presently!!!
Is it the "dynamics" of the infinite spirit or anything else causing them???
There are several laws viz: laws of the nature,Spiritual laws,religious laws,social laws,civil laws,criminal laws,economic laws,etc.
Except the former which is inborn,the rest are all man made that varies with the times!!!
Friend,is the infinite spirit understandable? How did it looke like for all those who understood it?
It should not mean several things to several people since the "truth" is only one!!!
Very rarely a very few might have attained such an enlightened state,assuming there exists one,and for all the rest of species,it has been only a struggle for eixtance only!!!
Friend slavery in some form or the other exists in every household even today!!!
The quote is fine,but where do you fit in???
TO start with what proof is there that BRAHMANS started the caste system???
If you have you are welcome to present it!!!
The human migrations do take place as in the past!!!
The history tells a different story!!!
None trusts the other in this world despite the hypocritical friendly talks!!!
The alternative is again chaos in that country!!!
Sure, all sould join to spread the message of love and celebrate that great day when it dawns!!!
If it is the will of the lord,who can stop it happening???
Please state clearly who happens to be BRAHMAN and "when did Brahman rule" exist or prevailed all over India???
Friend you said it in your last sentence which is quite laudable!!!
Friend,the CJI only said yesterday that the verdict of the SC is final!!!
In the absence of which this question does not arise!!!
Friend,despite what all you say,the fact is,all religions coexist on the planet earth!!!
To be followed by the measures for its implementation,after which alone, the people would come to take care of the health of the masses!!!
Exactly brings the opposite effect,which would be detrimental to the interests of those very people,sooner than later!!!
It is a far cry in the wilderness friend!!!
The SC going by the law,but not feelings/emotions,gave its verdict in this case. The same constitution of ours also provides for the accused to seek clemency from the head of the constitution.To grant the same or not falls in his domain.This is under examination.Let us have patience to hear the final decision!!!
Please tell us how "attitudes" are formed!!!
Friend,as per BHAGAVADGITA there is nothing like duality or plurality,except for relative comparisons out of ignorance, in the process of knowing, what is to be known!!!
PROPHET'S COMMANDMENT WAS ALSO WITH GOOD INSTRUCTION ONLY FRIEND ,IF IT IS PROPERLY UNDERSTOOD!!!
Friend precepts are different from practices.Further it has been agreed earlier that "HINDUISM" has never been a religion,unlike others!!!
All commandments call for strict conformance and will not allow any room making them optional!!!
We have the judiciary as a check,which is also an instrument of the constitution!!!
Experience is a better tutor!!!
Friend, I know that much.My message is intended to drive home the point that all religions,be it "hinduism,christsianity or islam or sikhism etc" have accepted that "violence could be resorted to where and whenever it is needed to establish law and order",and that it is not the prerogative of only ISLAM!!!
Friend,since all other earlier scandals have become statle the same has not been touched.Any way good you mentioned it too!!!
FRIEND,PLEASE READ MY POST WITH THE later part of the sentence too,that" all civil laws in all societies" also encourage the same,but not in isolation!!!
My post is to be read in the context of one sided version which is going on here,highlighting that same is the case with all religions!!!
All religions preach universal love in essence and punishments are indicated in the context of violations of justice!!!
Friend,your comments relate to the first part,ignoring the second part of my sentence,which are unfair!!!
They go to prove the proverb,that one hears what one wants to hear.and sees only what one wants to see!!!
Regarding the "creamy layer". We all proclaim from our roof tops,that we honour the judicial verdicts!!!
May be!
Friend when all the people want the eradication of caste system,what more mind set change is needed???
Still if the caste system prevails,it means that the people are the great hypocrats!!!
Friends,please tell,what prompted the GITA ACHARYA,OR LORD KRISHNA,to ask ARJUNA to come out of his dejection,"take up arms and fight the enemies"???
Similar should have been the cases with other religions as well,be it christianity,islam etc,!!!
Friend,to refresh your memory,what are all our "dharma sastras" about or why should Lord Vishnu assume so many incarnations and for what purpose???
Still,nothing tangible could be achieved in arresting its onward march and growth. It is funny you added British forces to the list,as though they waged wars in INDIA to save us!!!
Friend the subsequent reports that appeared in the media goes to prove,that all this amounts to "Much ado about nothing" for there never existed an indigenous missile as claimed,even till date,as a substitute to "Barak" missile.
Further more the government of the day can ill afford to put the armed forces at heavy risk,when they are fighting an enemy,for want of suitable equipment!!!
On the other hand it is comical,having condemned the "Barak" missile,which was bought dduring the kargil war,the same person/party/government,went ahead to enter into "Barak deal-11" !!!
To uphold their tenets,values or dharmas!!! So is the case with civil laws in all countries.This has been the history of the humanity/Mankind !!!
As long as the humanity remains united and lead a harmonious life name should not matter.But would it be so is the big ??? for the conflict is rooted in the very human nature!!!
Is not only bleek,but at stake as well!!!
Ofcourse with 100% reservations to all!!!
Let us wish they multiply in number by geomatrical progression!!!
A welcome proposition no doubt.But how could that alter the ongoing reservations friend???
Friend,you are only trying to stray and deflect the question posed.Please tell whether all other religions "are void of commandments" honestly!!!
It can be added to the pool,but yet the situation remains the same regarding the reservations!!!
why not the people force the government to make a law towards this end to end the caste system once and for all???
You mean vendetta aganist George!!!
People have seen how they have been handled by the laws of secular nation called INDIA!!!
friend,we have come a long way starting from the stone age,with nothing changed even now in a secular state like ours.What a pity!!!
And destroy all things in nature as well.Where is the mankind heading!!!
To ensure the real social justice which would usher a new era for national development!!!
You mean fraudlently!!!
FRIEND,IF it is abhored by the majority of the people,the only way to get rid of it is to lead a peaceful movement!!!
Friend good it is admitted that caste has been a part of the religion and these reservation confered automatically goes only that religion,depriving all others,which initself is social injustice!!!
Is not caste a part of a particular religion???
HAVING PROVIDED THEM FOR ONE RELIGION,how could the constitution deny them to the other.Let this imbalance be removed from the constitution once for all!!!
You mean to convey that good governance is the only tool/means to eradicate the social injustices,prevalent in the society now.Very true friend.
But in democracy if people who are supposed to be masters act otherwise,it means that they want only bad governance,which they cherish for obvious reasons!!!
Sure none had any data on this except to speak in general terms!!!
IT IS NOT THE ADJECTIVES in question,but the existance of commandments in other religions as well.
You may well answer it!!!
This is not the first time it is happening or is it going to be last!!!
The SC has ruled aganist religion based reservations irrespective of the fact at what point of time these conversions took place.
Assuming in future your point holds good,would it also apply automatically for te next generations!!!
MR.R.J'MALANI may ignore the evidences produced,BUT THE JUDGE will not.So worry not!!!
Having agreed for caste based reservations in a religion,on the basis of backwardness both socially and economically,can the same be denied to other religion?Will it negate the principle of social justice!!!
It is good to resort to some sort of self employment than no employment.Let people consider it as dignity of labour and improve upon it!!!
Nice satire.Heartly enjoyed!!!
A previlege once confered is too difficult to withdraw later friend!!!
DID ANY ONE DISPUTE IT???
A good proposition friend!!!
does it mean that there are no commandments in other religions!!!
Going by your own analogy,all other religions prior to ISLAM should have gone into oblivion,which is not the case!Nothing personal friend!!!
Appreciated!!!
On what grounds???As long as the law permits and gives scope to the defence with in the limitations,no action on the suggested lines,could be taken by the courts!!!
Do the government have any clear statistics even to day as to:-
1) How many elementary,middle class and HSS schools are there in each state and statewise?
2) How many of them are housed in buildings,huts are onder trees?
3) How many of them are having a single teacher,double teachers or multi diciplinary teachers?
4) How many students are there in each class and the drop out rates?
In tha absence of such a wide data base,it would be futile to indulge in tall talks that sound hollow!!!
Friend,this is no answer to my specific question!!!
IT IS NOT A QUESTION OF MINDSET,but whether those religions permit and tolerate their going with castes in their new found love after conversion!!!
Please furnish details at least in a few cases,where the judges have strayed,from their duty!!!
This brings us to accept a reality, if it never existed, and the concept remaains for ever,only as a pipe dream!!!
This naturally forces us to introspect,and find as to what could be the causes for such an "inequality to exist at all times"!!!
During the course of discussions,without clarly mentioning to which one of them the reference is made.It will do a lot of good if they could only make a specific reference by name in all the cases!!!
FRIEND,do you think it is appropriate to continue the resservations based on caste even to SC/ST endlessly?If not what time frame is considered reasonable,beyyond which there will not be any reservations!!!
Friend,almost sixty years is too long a period to provide the basic needs,and atleast an elementary education to the children.What is the use of speaking about schlorships to students in non existant school buildings???
Does ISLAM permit the Hindu caste system to pollute the religion, is the basic question???
This has to be expeditiously DEBATED and decided by the scolars of ISLAM!!!
It would be a high luxury to demoralise the armed forces just for the sake of politics.There are laws and ways to deal with corruption and punish the guilty.The recent tale of the two "Barack deals"
is a classic example of this of this!!!
FRIEND,what purpose does your message serve,for similar things/practices or instances do exist in every society irrespective of the religions!!!
Assuming that the economic criteria as a basis to decide on the backwardness,by the goverment,it should be uniformly applied to all irrespective of their castes and religions!!!
Ofcourse it is a mute point whether such a proposal would be accepted!!!
It is farcical friend!!!
If we were to go by speeches only God should save us all.It is strange that none applies their minds to improving the conditions in schools or colleges,specially which are run by Government.What is the use of these scholarships where even the minimal infrastructural facilities simply do not exist!!!
No special advantage would accrue by such discussions to either!!!
Friend the knowledge and culture are always a two way trafic as mentioned by you also.What you are refering to at best relates to 2500 or 2600 YEARS OF HISTORY only.Where as the history of mankind evalution and its migrations go far beyond,which knowledge we do not have fully.
The disparities,ambitions,attitudes and approches more or less remain the same with human nature irrespective of the times.
If you would care to know the greek philosophical thoughts are quite similar to that of the eastern philosophical thoughts,for the simple reason the ultimate truth remains the same though the paths vary.
As for the kingdoms of small teritories mentioned by you it was the same case every where not alone in greece!!!
As for the slavery,even it is no different to day in the concepts,for we have it in every house hold,local bodies,institutions where people go for work.BTW!!!
Friend,there could be differences in "precepts and practices".Also new laws may replace the old ones,which is no different even today.
First to make the matters clear,in the early vedic periods only stary thoughts have existed vide "Brahmanas,Aranyakas,upanishads etc" over a long drawn periods, brought by different seers or saints.There was no single founder or expositioner.Various schools of thoughts existed and were spread in a scattered manner across the country.In those times there was nothing like a caste system EXCEPT A PROFESSIONAL ORDER,as is understood now.
It is known videly the four vedas as are talked about now have been codified by the seer Vyasa,who was born to a seer parasara and a fisher woman,which means there were inter caste marriages as further events goes to prove as well.This was around 1500 BCE at best.
The humanity and society existed even much before the codification with the professional order,in some form or other,even before the birth of MANU.
The statement that the caste system was a divine arrangement as expounded does not hold water going by the revered text of "BHAGAVAD GITA" itself. It was interpolated much later as an adjunct or annexure to RIGVEDA where in ,this divine arangement was mentioned first in "purusha suktam" BY THE VESTED INTERESTS which stand to be exploited by the so called leaders even today!!!
Regarding "RAMAYANA OR MAHA BHARATA OR PARUSURAMA" let us not forget that one goes by the laws of the land and the rulers are expected to enforce them without fear or favour,which is the valid dictum even today as emphasised!!!
As for the wars fought then and now there are no difference in attitudes and approches,but for technologies.
In the end I would only like to stste that one should go BY facts, not torn out of context to suit.BTW!!!
friend,has this new change in name assumed for whatever purpose it is,been recognised by the law?
If not this only remains in the talks from platforms,that does not alter the situation on the ground!!!
Please substantiate your statemnt!!!
Thank you friend for having come to the point atlast dispelling the confusions and mix up,which are being used one for the other.BTW!!!
Nothing wrong in one assuming any name of one's choice.But when it relates to a group relating to a caste that enjoys "reservations" under the law need to get the laws suitably amended recognising this new nomenclature,lest it creates alround confusion including the benificiaries!!!
My question is simple.Does this change of new breed of DALITS as a conglomeration has the legal sanctity for confering the benifits instead of SC/ST/OBCs etc???
Friend unless and untill the laws are uniformly applied there are no solution to the people's problems.They go on multiplying!!!
It is learnt from a nes flash in the electrnic media yesterday,that there are about "three crore"
cases pending in varios courts seeking justice.Yet,We take pride in being the largest democracy. Only God shold help.AMEN!!!
This relates to the topic posted earlier by our friend iamtrue,and relates to his response.
From what has been stated it is clear that neither the people nor the governments have any uniform perceptions and approches.Hence the variations from state to state!!!
It is upto the people who are considered to be supreme,to dump all such obstructionists into the dustbins of history and forge ahead!!!
THE LAW should take credence over the social practices aand all those who defy it should be punished commensurately!!!
If not what for we make the laws,if they are not imlemented???
1)There were intercaste marriages even in Mahabharat times. Even the SC recently ruled that the caste of the father applies to the children born out of such a wedlock and not vice versa.This proves that the caste system will not vanish with intercaste marriages as such.
2)The vedas have not mentioned the caste system as such.It is much later there was a mention OF CASTES made in purusha suktam which has come into being as an annexure to the RIGVEDA.
Even there the caste system has been denoted relating it to a body according to the functions not that any one is superior or inferior viz:
1) Head relates to intellect WHICH goes with a quest to know the Brahman(the great)
2)Hands relate to valour to protect.
3) The trunk that relates to production and trade to feed all.(Trade and forming etc)
4) feet without which the body itself would crumble and fall (Supporting services)
Hope it is no different even today with the society or institutions!!!
Regarding all others taunting KARNA as sutaputra is not to belittle him but to remind him that the rules of the game played does not permit him to participate.Trust this clarifies friend!!!
Friend,every thing has a price in this world and so is the case with comforts!!!
By whom?Doubt whether the word DALITS as mentioned you has any legal sanction,though it has become a fashion to be labelled as such.It is self assumed one!!!
QUITE UNFORTUNATE FRIEND!!!
Friend,no law and order have come into being along with humans.We all know that they evolved in course of time and each country had their systems.While the Manusmriti's dating is debatable
the fact that the caste system was predominantly in existance as a professional order much before the so called MANU as we understand.This caste system as you also rightly mentioned has been quite interchangeble and interdependent.It is adifferent matter how this has degenerated with the passage of time.
Probably,this has been distorted by the west and became worse, when we started looking at our own system through their glasses and became worst when they played one aganist the other to perpetuate their rule over us.
The latest religions such as buddhism,jainism,christianity,islam,sikhism etc have all come into existance since only 600 B.C.E and later,which includes the greek philosophy,where as Hindu philosophy happens to be much older.Who knows that this philosophy has not flowed from east to west given the time frames,WHICH COULD BE SUBSTANTIATED with the facts
of the times.This is not to belittle the greek philosophy or its philosophers.
What is intended here is only to point out,that the history known to the present mankind is hardly about 2600 years,while mankind has been in existance millions of years ago,wwhere in several civilizations have risen and fallen.
It may not be appropriate to judge the times of yore with our present day standards and jump to conclusions,that too with half knowledge,which is more dangerous!!!
WHICH MEANS that the caste system did not evolve as a religious order,but has been in existance only as a socio-economic order,whoever has introduced it!!!
There has never been any mention of DALITS as a caste anywhere in the caste system since its inception.Let there be no confusion friend in this regard.
The meaning of DALITS denote the oppressed and supressed people, who exist all over the world and not related to the caste system.
WE have these oppressed and supressed people in other so called forward castes as well who falls under the definition of DALITS.
lET US NOT MIX CASTE WITH CLASS!!!
HAPPY for acknowledging the facts as facts.While every one curses the blessed caste sysstem,none is prepared to forsake it and on the other hand thwy would like to perpetuate it.The height of hypocracy friends!!!
A classic example mixing up class with castes as usual,that lacks clarity in the portals of governance!!!
A religion at best could only be a path to realise the ultimate,but not the ultimate by itself!!!
All inventions are man made,except the nature.Who stops changing of laws be it civil or religious.If you care to know even religions underwent several transformations with a new set of hypothesis and laws there of friend!!!
Friend we all coexist even with several other species in nature without knowing whether they are believers or non believers.Existance is a self interest!!!
Friend what was once considered good for the society ensuring a professional order of interdependency,to live in harmony,has been exploited by the foreign invaders to play the divisive politics to their advantage playing one aganist the other.Even after independence this trend continues unfortunately.It is for people to decide whether to disband the caste system or continue with it as originally conceived.
Nothing could remain stagnant in a dynamic world.Change is the order of the day for good or bad!!!
Friend,do the word "DALITS" relate to a class or a partcular caste???This confusion need to be sorted out once for all,since DALITS exist in all castes and even otherwise!!!
Nothing is written on the faces about their caste identity.Only the people out of their own affinities proclaim themselves to the world who they are and what they are and unfortunately none is prepared to forego their identities!!!
PLEASE enumerate the castes that existed before the arrival of GREEKS and how and what for the list got enlarged.Do you consider the "caste system" evolved as a professional order or social order in our country???
Friend,who are all under upper castes(or is it class) other backward castes???
WHEN two thirds of the population are aganist the caste system,why not a law be made to scrap it once for all !!!
Better we understand who is a "BRAHMAN" before prceeding any further!!!
This clarity is sought for bringing in an objectivity into the discussions on the board!!!
Going chronologically by your response,it is presumed that:-
1) the caste system originally,as conceived was based on professions,for the good of the society and nothing to do with any religion,more so with the so called Hinduism. Accepting this much,it is clear,that there could be interchange from one caste to the other depending on the professional set up!!!
2) Please let me know which vedas,puranas and Bhagavadgita proclaims superiority of one caste over the other!!!
3) Agreed fully,which is unfortunate!!!
It is good that there is some convergence!!!
Friend,we would not have so many castes created to serve the foreign invaders.It would suffice to say as "slaves"!!!
It is to inform that the caste system was in vogue much prior to the greek philosophers!!!
Please let us know in which other countries this unique caste system exists???
That is understandable.But what is not understandable is when people speak as though they are identical!!!
Friend,this does not answer the questions posed???
This is in continuation to my posting earlier just a few minutes before,which was left unfinished.
1) since when this caste system did come into existance and for what reasons???
2)Those,who promolgated it,did they specify clearly that one caste is superior over the other.If so who is that great person???
3) Auuming one did,what were the creteria for each caste fixed???
As we see there is good amount of debate on the caste system off and on,mixing it with cass system as well,though both are different in nature.Keeping class aside,better we understand the caste system unique to Hindustan/Aryavartam/bharat/india!!!
This means,that the decision on a clemency petition either way has to be on justifiable grounds!!!
Faith and facts differ.Nothing wrong in holding on to a faith!!!
This means that the issue depends on the whims and fancies of the cabinet with no clear cut guidelines or rules!!!
Friend,the survival instincts at all times and ages happens to be the root cause behind all conflicts!!!
Ignorance is bliss.Please enjoy it fully!!!
Worry not! Carry on the good work!!!
The government need to find ways to overcome the difficulties.With the reservations we may have limited shot term gains,but the people,society and nation would loose in the long term,for they tend to stagnate!!!
WE CALL IT AN INCIDENT AFTER AN EVENT.Things do happen whether one likes it or not.This is the reality!!!
Friend,when one sits on fast unto death as a form of protest tha law cannot take action on a mere intent.The action follows much later mostly after the event,unless it creates a law and order problem.If some one cuts his hand or head,which law would prevent him???
None objects to the upliftment of the poor and downtroden people.It need to be attended by the government expediously for the good and welfare of the people.This calls for providing equal oppurtunities for all to enlighten themselves.This could be better accomplished by providing scholarships or subsidies in pursuit of the goal,without compromising on merit and talent.Only then the real benifit would go to such deprived people, by catching up and help to bridge gulf.if not this system leads to intellectual vaccum ultimately,that does not do any good for either the people or society at large!!!
Friend,do you mean to say that it is incumbent on all followers of that religion to practice it.Were it to be so that religion should have vanished long before.Any way how could law stop suicides,for they take place and comes to the notice of the law after the event???
Beg to differ friend.How about religious sub divisions in a religion within a country itself,practicing their own set of laws which again vary from country to country???
Ofcourse possible at the peril of the society!!!
As long as the supremacy of the laws of the land is accepted,nothing wrong in having beliefs one way or the other which are purely personal in nature!!!
Ofcorse true.There is no denying of the fact.Freedom does not mean irresponsibility friend!!!
The falacy is the very humanity started degenerating itself,by bringing in all sorts of divisions relating to it right through!!!
It is strange neither of them speaks about it now!!!
CAN WE EQUATE iNDIA or for that matter any other country with "stray incidents that are criminal in nature though" which are punishable by the laws???
Friend,the laws of the land reign supreme and all other laws of all hues should be sobordinated to them.Personal life regarding marriage and love affairs are different and there is no curbing of the individual freedom unless it contavenes the basic laws of the land.Let there be no confusion!!!
What is the difference between a "reservation and a fair share in proportion to their population" as stated. Does it mean that we rule, by this new found formule by applying it to all religions,castes/subcastes and creeds not to mention others?Does the government have the requisite figures to compute on that basis?
Is it our policy that we move "one step forward and six steps backward"???
IT IS FEDERALISM FRIEND.WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT???
All such farsical dramas are a part of the litigation.The defence plays up to the galleries in courts,by raising as many doubts as possible so that the benifit of doubt could go to the benifit of accused!!!
Let a mercy petition be filed with the president by Santhosh singh first,to be followed up by his family members.The rest would be taken care off by the legal luminaries in courts!!!
Do we have clearcut stipulations and the guidelines there off in the constitution how and when a clemency could be shown???
Friend,they could seek redresal in a court of law by lodging a complaint with the authorities!!!
The constitution of the land is above all as it stands.The rest are only perversions which need to be checked by strict enforcement of the laws of the land!!!
Do you mean to say that there are "no other governing laws" in all islamic countries away from islamic laws???
Friend you mean to say that "santhara" a jain practice or mercy killing have the sanction of the laws of the land???
Please read your response with the topic under issue.As I understand from the original post of our friend,it only goes to show that all are equal before the laws.Hence my poser!!!
FRIEND,both the religious laws and civil laws are man made only and meant for the good of the society.Unfortunately,perverts distort them or exploit them for their advantage in both the cases!!!
Friend the agrieved party need to approch the court first!!!
Friend,we cannot go by what one says.We need to go by the laws of the land which permits one to approch the courts for redresal in all such cases.To act or not rests with the party concerned!!!
Several other contries also have the similar set ups friend!!!
One can ask for a moon if there is ine to give!!!
This will not effect the laws in force!!!
Friend,rules and proceedures stem from a law.They go with the understanding of an individual who interprets them,in which process some people could be deprived unfortunately though, for which he need to go in appeal to the next higher authority,thus ending up with endless litigation in courts.
True!!!
Then it should go to the credit of the people,more so in a democracy!!!
Friend,then it goes to the credit or discredit of the participants, who indulge in such game but not to the topic!!!
FRIEND,we do have religions/societies, which approve of dissent while in some others it is not available as you know which go with the faith
and laws of the land.But basically the human is freedom lover as we know!!!
Friend,can you throw some light on "how come this cruel and cursed caste system" continues from MANU'S time,till date,despite its infirmities and inadequecies and why people are still clamouring for "caste based reservations" alround???
FRIEND,Unless the national mindset is fully changed and oriented towards the national constructive purposes in a dovetailed manner,these ideas shall remain as pipe dreams only!!!
This calls for a "consensus national programe" to be evolved by all the major political parties, which in itself is a dream!!!
It would be quite interesting to watch the current proceedings in the SC in this context,read with the stipulated sealing @ 50%,fixed by it,after excluding the creamy layer, as aganist 69% in the case of TN,coupled with the 9th schedule laws proposed to be incorporated convieniently by the parliament from time to time!!!
Friend,the SC full bench is hearing the arguements of various legal luminaries that matter in this connection.Let us await its final verdict!!!
Friends,courts go by the evidence of facts as presented during the trials,but not by feelings.The courts cannot and should not assume the role of a prosecutor,a defence counsel and that of a judge moulded as one!!!
It is the defiance of law either way which shows both the goverment and people in poor light!!!
No need basically.At best these debates may help to dispel ignorance amongst the participants to some extent,lest they may forget the issues involved totally!!!
Why to add to the confusion by bringing in the gender bias friend???
A Nation can afford to have "plurality amongst its cross section of people,but not in the set of laws that govern the people"!!!
When one looks at the things allover the world,it would be quite evident that the believers far exceed the non-believers despite the fact that several religions exist as on date.The conflict amongst them, mostly arises from the precepts than the concepts.
This is the state of the humanity whether one likes it or not.
What is needed is the convergence on concepts!!!
Friend,all religions accept GOD as a single entity.The principle laws have been made by the founders and the rest of the laws have been incorporated by the religious organisations as we know.
It is a different matter that the concept of GOD has been debated even till date from the times immemorial!!!
Friend,please refer to page 13 of THE HINDU dt 3rd November wherein the centre stated before the SC,that "THE FATWAS NOT IN CONFLICT WITH JUDICIAL SYSTEM" and Fatwas are just advisory and that Muslims not prevented from moving court".
This means the judicial system of the country is supreme and all other systems are subordinated to it in this regard!!!
NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION.It alone becomes the constitution.Anyway this issue is being debated before the full bench of the Supreme court as of now.Let the people watch the unfolding drama!!!
It is one of the several legacies we inherited from the past both good and and bad. As for the vacation of courts it is advisible to stagger them amongst the judicial establishment for its smooth functioning!!!
Friend,pleading for clemency is different from seeking clemency.But had he pleaded aganist the capital punishment much earlier, as a human rights activist or even otherwise, it would have been appreciated.He chose a wrong time for a wrong cause for a wrong person.This is unfortunate!!!
Friend,how could it go stale,while the issue still hangs around???
Friend,the process of decision making is known.But what is not known is the minds that are at work behind the decision assuming one is made.Remember that some one has said,that " even an indecision is also a decision"!!!
The laws allow even tritors to apply for clemency.It does not mean that it is mandatory to grant it automatically.What is needed is an expeditious decision either way, with in a reasonable time!!!
Does this mean each one is a law unto one self???
Let us not forget the fact that the other countries too have similar divisons in their societies if not the same and yet implementing its laws!!!
Friend,are not the laws applicable to all "civilians"???
Any thing otherwise is illegal and to be dealt with as such!!!
Friend,"SECULARISM IS A FAITH, THAT OPPOSES ALL OTHER RELIGIOUS FAITHS".How could peace prevail when there is a perpetual conflict between the faiths???
Friend,it appears that there is a confusion in the message, when caste is mixed with class,which have different connotations.Better one should be clear about it!!!
Quotas could at best be only a temporary measure but not a solution by itself!!!
With the endless litigation out growing the Himalayan heights, understaffed courts and cubersome web of proceedures,no wonder precious time is lost in the speedy disposal of the cases!!!
Hence the saying that "justice delayed is justice denied" holds good at all times.But who cares!!!
The laws of the land provide for consideration by the constitutional head on all such cases,on the advice of the government.The constitution,probably might be silent on the set of standards to be applied for the obvious reasons!!!
The issue is pending with the government now.Let us wait for the final outcome!!!
It is as good as anybody's guess friend!!!
Why not by the people too???
Friend,in the case under the topic,the SC has already given its judgement already.But in most of the cases refered by you,the matters are under active examination or investigation!!!
Friend,there, have been, are and would continue to be many riddles in Hinduism,for it means different things to different people in all times.One has to wonder why the caste system has not been annhilated till date from its inception and why still the people cling on to it despite their conversion to another different religion or even otherwise???
Friend,why to mix caste with class??? For the purpose of clarity to the discussions,may I request you to throw better light on the origins of caste and class and whether the intended reservations were based upon caste or class,in you opinion!!!
This is the falacy!!!
FRIEND,it is a matter of one's own faith either way.The humanity with all its divisions and sub-divisions lives in their own make believe worlds at all times!!!
Friend most of the religions tell the same or similar things,though the formats may vary!!!
In response to a question from the media in this regard.This should set at rest all lingering doubts till the final say on this!!!
Friend,when we say unbiased Administration,it includes several other factors as well besides what you mentioned.Thank you for trying to add a little more clarity in this regard!!!
This only speaks that the people that matter have failed to discharge their functions before the stipulated due date.This goes to their credit or discredit in setting up such precedents!!!
This calls for laws to be enacted with due regards to all factors and an analytical data,but not knee jerk reactions.Besides it also calls for an unbiased administration in their execution.
All such institutions are to function within the stipulated guidelines formulated before their coming into existance,and equally are answerable to the government.However this does not mean day to day interference by the government in their functioning,which happens to be one of the governing factors!!!
Or else it becomes an extraneous trial which is of no consequence!!!
Friend,in science world if a solid can turn into liquid and a liquid into gas what is strange about it???
Friend,apart from the varying perceptions and beautiful discussions/arguements there off,all religions agree on the existance of a supreme force,call it God,truth, knowledge or by whatever name one likes.These have not led the humanity any where near to realise its form or content in full!!!
The government could go through it to decide on the course of action to be taken???
Friend,why to single out only RSS, when all other entities have been in existance even prior to 1947,who were more responsible for the partition of the country on communal lines???
Why was the ban lifted in the first place,if it is found to be resposible for the henious crime???
OF VARIOUS POLITICAL LEADERS AND THEIR POLITICAL OFFICES TO "BRIEF THEM"!!!
This refers to a report in The Hindu of 8th instant.
Friend,refering to your cause and effect theory,one has to go back to the "origins of creation and evalution"!!!
Are we not witnessing it with the daily reports pouring in in some village or the other???
At the same time all need to satisfy the "eligibility" requirements.This discussion is unwarranted!!!
Sure he knows his markets better!!!
But the whole world does not think that it is your family!!!
Friend,don't we have any set of guidelines and rules that govern the grant of clemency in all such cases???
Friend,some one said that "construction is meant for destruction" and may be it relates to civilizations!!!
Friend,this only shows that Indians known as Hindus earlier(wrongly attributed now to a compendium of different religious faiths),lack both "clarity and uniformity" in their thinking!!!
Friend,does equality exist any where? It is an utopian ideal at best!!!
But the facts all over the world tell a different tale in this regard friend!!!
Friend,both the opposite poles belonging to different faiths or multiple poles for that matter do have a place to exist in the universe(s)!!!
The problem is, each pole/faith thinking that the universe(s) only rest on it out of ignorance!!!
We agreed to discuss all issues including J&K with Pakistan.So here we move forward and backward resulting in the statusquo to remain.Both sides love it too!!!
SO,whom do we blame for this sorry state of affairs???
As long as our democratic system permits it!!!
Affinity problems probably!!!
Thanks for your concurance.Diplomacy is different and is intended to avoid an ackward climax to the extent possible!!!
Thanks for proving my statement is true!!!
Friend,ISRAEL & LEBANON are two different countries,while Baluchistan is integrel and a part of Pakistan!!!
Friend," religion & secularism " are two opposite poles!!!
True.But the comic part is, yet the people vote for them and put up with them with unlimited endurance!!!
Till this day precisely.It is like blank cheque for all to interpret and sign to suit their own convieniences!!!
It is no doubt a welcome feature.But more than the adjournments, the plethora of appeals from court to court need to be curbed as well.At best only one appeal could be considered depending on the merits of the case!!!
True!That is why there is opposition to the proposal of "judicial reforms"!!!
Friend,this refers to your second and the first part of the third sentences.All in general and the Dictators in particular relish to live with this phobia!!!
Thank you for your concurance friend.It is reported that their constitution is being amended now, to give a major role and say for the army in running the affairs of the country.WE need to wait and watch what exactly it protends for the people and the country!!!!
Friend,the SC has given only "guidelines" for it cannot enact any laws.Even then,if the actions are taken accordingly,it would go a long way in restoring peace in the campuses,for the good of the students!!!
Unity among students sans political affiliations should be a welcome feature.As we know the politicians could crop up even without being a student!!!
Friend,"some justice" is no justice.Either it is full or nil.The inordinate delays in delivering the justice are quite avoidable,with improved system of governance and administration alround.
Thank you friend.Hope you agree with my statement.It might be sometime before I could exchange the views and participate REGULARILY due to my preoccupations.BTW!!!
Better CITIZENS of tomorrow!!!
Sure it could be the otherway round shortly as the things stand!!!
This has been the history of Mankind!!!
For the simple reason that the "law has to follow its own course" both in letter and spirit.However matters could be expedited with improved systems!!!
This is for real and the rest are all notional!!!
People are to discuss the subject given under the topic friend,and that is being done.Nothing wrong I suppose!!!
Restraint should be the watch word for all and more so for the MEDIA friend!!!
Friend,he unfortunately, allowed himself to be in this mess!!!
Do you mean to say,that centre had no responsibility in this episode???
FRIEND,How can the people expect a different tune???
True! people are yet to see the final results in this regard!!!
With no compulsions!Here it has been a case of a "reports/recommendations" by MR.Buta Singh, not necessarily meant to be accepted by the central cabinet,or for that matter even its recommendation by the President at the first instance.Both the central cabinet and president have an option to turn down such recommendations!!!
Because it is an "INFECTION"!!!
Firstly,"Q"is not in UK.Secondly his bank accounts were defrozen,on request from INDIA!!!
TO prove its innocence!!!
Who has to dig out the truth,in this case???
The expelled MPs approched the SC as per reports yesterday.But there is no attempt from the government side to approch the SC in this regard.
In accordance with the constitutional provisions.
friend,they go to them on an invitation and under their escort,for the publicity purposes.Hence their limitations.
May this new year bring peace,plenty and prosperity to you and your families.
SO!What is your valuable suggestion then to meet the ends of justice?How do you propose to punish one,without an enquiry and trial???
Friends,wish you and your families peace,plenty and prosperity in the new year and all times to come.
friend,you are mistaken.What is wanted is a "speedy justice delivery"system,in any form of government,for justice delayed is justice denied,as we all know.Trust this clears your apprehensions.
Friend,how could a "prompt punishment" be given in democracy.This may be possible only under a monarch or a tyrant.Hope, you are not for such governance.
friend,let us know if any action on this has been initiated till date to prove it is crap!!!
friend,the replies have been posted aganist the message posted by you on the "Business board".The same applies to all friends.
Without delay,as it constitutes a "criminal act" punishable if proved guilty.
NDTV,Is it because of slow inter action,where people have to wait for the next day or so,unlike the "business board AND OTHER BOARDS",or is there any technical problem???
Friend, Haven't all of them have either resigned or relieved,from their posts???
friend,please check my reply to this,posted above.
friend,if it is a master key,it could as well open the other lockers!!!
Thank you friend!Let us see what happens,when the report is placed before the speaker.
Friend,my poser was different.Request you to go through it once again,and offer your comments if any!!!
ofcourse yes friend!What is important is, to table a question,unmindful of the type of answer that might be given.When once it is given,it becomes authentic and on record,for the interested parties to pursue further.Earlier it used to be a service only,but now it looks like a service at a cost!!!
The "individual itself".Even if not, it is only a matter of time, before they get wound up.This is for certain.
One has to be an optimist at all times.
MR.Manoj Kumar as yet,though he happened to receive the highest amount of Rs.1,10,000/=as reported,for tabling the questions.He shows his hold,if proof is needed.No wonder!!!
Mr.Butler,let us not waste our time scanning through the archives.Friend,It is not that important.Leave it.
MR.Thomas,the other day MR.P.Chidambaram made it clear,that it is upto Justice Pathak to look into all angles under the references made to him.Let us all await for the dawn of the truth.
MR.Butler,this post of yours stands answered by me on the other board.Any way it is for the government of the day to investigate the matter to bring forth the truth in all cases that comes to its notice,without fear or favour.
MR.Thomas,for all that we know the JPC even if appointed,may take more time.It is not the question of time,but of an intent and the purpose.
Would it be prudent for other countries to interfere in the affairs of another country in this regard and try to enforce their system???
Would such tendencies not lead to "hegemony"???
MR.Butler,we should not have double standards.This applies to all at all times.Friend,often such situations arise because,people adopt a stance of "I am OK but you are not OK".
Unless a culture of "we,the people should be OK" CREEPS IN, things would not improve.This calls for attitudinal changes alround.
Friend,unfortunately no such system exists as it stands.Time for all to raise above petty politics and think how to rectify the system for the good of the nation.
That afflict our "systems" in all the four pillars of the democracy,lest it might degenerate and decay.
friend,we all know that, "all parade like lords till they are caught with their pants down".Sorry state of affairs indeed.This is what happens when we lack governance as expected.
Friend,appreciated.The facts are undeniable.The role of NDA if under cloud,should also be investigated to arrive at the truth.
MR.Butler,you may see my views already expressed down below either in my posts or responses.However
to answer your point the same are elobarated.
Now that all of them have been temporarily debared from the Parliament (10 members)by the speaker,pending the report of a committee apointed
by him,in all fairness it is to be awaited.
After receipt of the report,the speaker may decide the further course of action in conformity with the rules of the house and constitutional stipulations.
My personal opinion is,if they are found guilty,the parliament as the supreme legislative body,should debar them from all types of future elections for the life time to any public institution.It should also take steps to ensure both civil and criminal proceedings aganaist them are launched expeditiously.
Such actions alone would deter others in future to indulge in any unlawful activities.
MR.Butler,to answer your last para first,request you to please go through my post once again and read the contents of its first line,so as to correct yourself,for "I stated clearly that NDA was in power then".
Now,reverting to Volcker's report and the MPs in TV money trap,yes, it is true they are incomparable,the reason being in all probability that the security arrangements in iraq at that point of time could be more stringent and no media or sting cameras were allowed to record the proceedings.
AS for the rest of your post I did answer aganist your message down and hope it would appear.
Friend,whatever comes out of the investigations and commissions it could be only a material to judicial courts to deal with.We all know how the matters get draged there after.But the fact is,we only find stink alround.This is the unfortunate part.BTW.
Now that it has been cleared by both the houses.
To make it effective,the development of the necessary infrastructural facilities on priority is a must.This entails the needed administrative set up immedietly to begin with,for a well coordinated approch.
friend,it was a policy of the government then and no single individual could be made responsible.
friend,that is what all parties say to comfort themselves.But in a democracy things start improving,if only, people are "open minded,receptive,appreciative and objective" in their thoughts and approches,instead of indulging in "name calling games" all the time.
friend,as the matters stand,none can claim it as their exclusive purview or domain.
MR.Butler,the world is yet to see a valid single path to suit for all times.The paths could be many,but the destination should be clear for reahing it.Or else they would all end up like the trip of columbus.
Friend, paths are to be pursued and laid as one proceeds further and further.Thanks for admitting that there is "some development"(implicitly) uneven though.True,the imbalances are to be corected and the unevenness leveled up for a straight forward smooth journey.
But the fact of life is,any chosen path is bound to have its "ups and downs and an uneven one at all times due to several varying factors".
Friend,true NDA was in power then.But the curtesy delegations by the opposition to countries happen to be of a routine nature at all times.
You would also agree, that only the PP holders alone could go on such visits be it private or official and all entries and exits are duly recorded in the PPs.But what is not recorded would be, what transpires precisely between the parties.What appears on the face value could be different than what it is.
The very fact Ramnaik admitted to a fact shows that he is open for all checks.
As for reliance and other companies, request you kindly to see my post @Volcker's report,regarding the companies.BTW.
Friend,The point is well taken,but need to be extended logically.
friend,let us not try to defend the indefensible.
The presiding officers of both the houses have ample powers to deal with the situations.Please anyway clarify because of whose conflicting interests MR.Natwar sing has been removed.Sure it is not to please the opposition!!!
friend,it is a disgrace to democracy.It only shows to what depths it has fallen!!!
They could only express their indignation which is of no avail,because of the system.May be if an option for "recall" exists,they could have excersised the option,which even Hon'ble speaker
MR.Somnath Chatarjee recently had an occassion to mention.
In all fairness to people,a "review of the constitution" by the luminaries on our horizon and to carry out the necessary "REFORMS" in all fields,is the need of the hour,to preserve the sanctity of DEMOCRACY in our land.
MR.Thomas,the opposition has been consistently demanding the resignations of MR.Natwar singh & the congress president Sonia Gandhi right through.
To forestall these pressures,only the UPA Government on its own, announced the appointment of "MR.V.Dayal's committee" to seek and obtain the requisite documents from the U.N and Justice
"Pathak's inquiry authority".PEOPLE WONDER WHETHER THE FORMER IS NEEDED AT ALL!!!
It is interesting to note that in both the cases, it is a single man committee only.While announcing the PIA itself it has been made clear that Justice Pathak will be given six months time to submit his report,and the government would take another six months before it is tabled in parliament along with the ATR.
It is evident,that these attempts are only to diffuse and divert the matter for one year.All could wait and happily go to sleep.
Over a period of time in any established order.These three factors are the germinating grounds for the resultant anarchy and exploitation.
Friend,the question of MR.Thomas is more specific about the differences in ideology vis-a vis the several branches of communism,but not to which branch or sub sect you belong or identify with.It is strange you opted to gloss over this fundamental aspect.
MR.R.Maran,are not the disruptive politics of naxals,suci etc,a part of the communist (combined)
strategy,in the overall context? Friend,please tell us why this "communist model" practiced in several other countries crumbled and failed to achieve the goals of 'communist social goals'.!!!
friend,it is a "free for all"society,forgetting the fact that "every thing" has a price to be paid
in some form or the other.
MR.R.Maran,it is good, if, they do not see so in their party."But it is unfortunate they see it in all other parties".Is it for political reasons to drive a wedge at all times?It would have been appreciable if they do not touch upon those raw chords while attacking the other parties and confine to the "Economic policies" only in their scholarly expositions.
It is good to shut out loose canons planting stories.This may be the begining to set a healthy trend in politics of the country.But should not the politicians excersise restraint and assume responsibility???
MR.Thomas,let us not forget the fact that even now,NATWAR SINGH says he is "innocent both in law and spirit".But we are yet to see such a catogarical statement from "congress".What all they could tell is,let the truth come out and the guilty will be punished.
The question is why did they punish NATWAR without his guilt being established in such a hurry?People know what all it means.
friend,let us first await for such a provision to be made in the constitution,to enable us to deliberate the merits or demerits.
friend,this is an "unilateral decision of the government"itself.Let us not pass on the credit or discredit accruing out of it, to the opposition.
friend,the question relates to the huge quantity allotted to MR.Bhim singh,but not to congress.Better the issue is not deflected.
MR.Thomas.then why did they drop him like a hot potato even before the 1000 page report has been gone through by the "Pathak's inquiry authority" and give its findings?Not convincing friend!
MR.R.Maran,is it not a fact on record,that Late MR.Namboodripad of the 'undivided communist party' said that "their participation in the democratic process is only a cnange of strategy" in pursuit of their objective?
Friend tell us,what are the basic differences,between the lines of divided communists(hope this is no strategy) viz:-
CPI,CPI(M),NAXALS,CPI(ML)CPI(Maoists)etc.vis-a vis,"MARXISM,LENINISM AND MAOISM",to begin with to sort out the contradictions and confusions in the ranks of the communists themselves in particular,not to speak of the people in general.
MR.Butler.it is no different even now with UPA government,which is pursuing the same economic reforms.It is interesting to note what the UPA Prime minister MR.Manmohan singh said INAGURATING the 40th session of the ILO.Here is a quote.
"The physical barriers to growth and employment creation were easier to deal with,than those created by policies that had outlived their original purpose.
Many of those are the legacies of the past that have no longer much relevance today.Indeed some of them have become counter productive and may well be hurting the very people they are meant to benifit".
He went on to add "It should be possible for us to sustain the growth rate close to 8-10% for several years,provided 'several impediments to new investment are removed so that we can accelerate the growth process and generate more employment'".
So friend,all this entails and calls for a new mindset to see things in the overall context at MACRO level,in the national interests,than at Micro level restricting it to the individual interest alone.This way, the long range interests may be served better.
Hai! It is nice to see your post after a while friend.The problem in EPF investments arises mostly from the employee unions,for they do not like any linkage to a "floating fund",out of security concerns.The pressure as such, comes through the political parties for any such move.
friend,forget not the fact that "listening to" is one of the essential traits of a good leader.This does not mean the leader is incapable of taking an independent decision,after considering various views and options.
There ccould be a problem if we have too many leaders and no followers.This applies to all parties,people and all situations,without exceptions.
MR.Butler,it is all the more necessary,to have a good leader to ensure the transformation of the backward states.Only the students lagging need more attention friend.
friend,this topic relates to MODI in a different national context,and not narrowly confined to political affinities.
MR.NEMESIS,Probably you do have a point there about what Marx had in mind.But you might be off the mark in equating them with oriental religions,for,it would be more appropriate to call them as "oriental philosophies" which are more refined than the religious precepts/concepts,and as such stand at a higher plane in its quest and pursuit.
This may help it to avoid all contraversial issues
creeping in.
MR.Thomas,hope the law is taking its own course!
Friend,even now he made no confession obviously and proclaims that he is innocent.Only the congress,gave the punishment to him for its better known reasons.The truth is yet to come out.
When and in what shape it emerges is any one's guess!!!
MR.Butler,is it not a fact that the UPA govt raised the EPF rates to 9.5%,under pressure from having brought it down,without the corresponding raise in SSS.Then,why to reduce it again to 8.s%,now once again?Is it done only to enhance it under pressure as a bargaining point to score elsewhere?
friend,all are possible,if only, the will is there,whatever be the system of governance.
Thank you MR.Butler for your appreciation of the point.
Friend,"BRAHMAN" has no relative comparisons.
MR.Butler,when the congress removed him from the steering committee,the reason given by its spokes man MR.KAPIL SIBAL was,that MR.Natwar's continuance in it, has become "untenable".Such being the case,to make a virtue now,and call it as a good precedent,would only be a mockery.Let us not kid ourselves.
It is the job of the specialists friend!
He said,he did so,only after the Volcker's report erupted in October-November 2005.This does not mean much,as another member of the delegation MR.P.Shivshanker,denied,that both of them were part of the delegation and went to the extent of denying even their presence at BAGHDAD,along with the delegation,during their stay there.It is amusing!
Report,due to the political "dust & din" raised in parliament.The truth in totality should be brought forth and placed before the people,at the earliest.
Not necessarily friend.
The oil allottment voucher of about 7.5 million barrels from IRAQ,which was much higher than that of congress.Atleast he acknowledged the fact of this allottment,though he refused to lift any of this,going by his statement.
But,it is amazing to note, what could have prompted IRAQ to make this allottment to MR.BHIMSINGH,given the fact that his influence is very minimal and negligible,in the national politics.
This is intriguing and the "probing agencies" need to investigate from this angle too,to bring out the truth.
As a non contractural benificiary in the oil for food scheme.Of course all benificiaries are innocent as is claimed,till it is proved that they are guilty.But in this case, it is necessary for congress atleast,to come out with a catogarical clean statement,that it has no involvement whatsoever and not made arrangements of any kind to lift the oil aganist the allottments made in its name or authorised any one to do so,instead of beating round the bush."A simple statement from Madame Sonia gandhi to this extent,would set the record straight".Let the truth who actually benifited from the said allottment to congress come out later.
Looks like it,for having rubbished it in the begining and appointed the committees to arrive at the bottom of the truth and the hurried punishment given to MR.NATWAR SING,without establishing his guilt.Let people wait what is in store further.
There is no FIR.There is no investigation.None of his guilt has been established as yet.people are wondering,What was the hurry to ditch him at this stage,having protected him thus far???
1.Natwar in his initial comments asserted,that his son Jagat singh,followed him to IRAQ even in 1995 and questioned what is wrong if he accompanies him in 2001.(This is supposed to be in his personal capacity).
2.Mr.Matherani,stated that MR.Natwar singh told him that his son would accompany him(again in his personal capacity only)
3.EX.Envoy of IRAQ,Mr.Salah al Mukhtar stated,that
"MR.Natwar singh requested me to get a visa for his son saying 'my son is a member of the congress party' to go to Iraq for solidarity with the Iraqi people".
Mukhtar went on to say"well, it was a seperate visit by his son.He headed a youth delegation to meet the Iraqi youth federation".He said further that jagat singh came to the embassy aalong with two other persons,saying they were also part of the youth congress delegation.(as reported in THE HINDU dt 4th December 2005 at page 10).
It is interesting to note that MR.Natwar never made any mention of such a delegation having accompanied him at that point of time.
4. As if taking a cue of the above statement of MR.Mukhtar,MR.Jagat singh followed it with his own statement,that he headed a youth congress delegation at that point of time.
5.This statement of his was promptly rebutted by MR.R.S.SURJEWALA,the then president of the youth congress that there was no such authorised delegation.
6.To add to this confusion, MR.P.Shivsankar,another member of the congress delegation led by MR.Natwar singh,stated that MR.Jagat singh and MR.A.Sehegal travelled with them upto JORDAN contrary to what Mr.Matherani stated earlier that while Jagat singh travelled with them,MR.A.Sehegal joined the party at JORDAN
and was introduced by Natwar singh,to the members of the congress delegation,as a friend of his son.
P.Shivsankar also stated that "we were in BAGHDAD for 2-3 days.Sehegal was not with us,Jagat singh I am not sure".(This is also contrary to what MR.Matherani stated)
P.Shivsankar also stated that Jagat singh did not attend any of the meetings,contrary to the claims made by MR.Matherani,who was also a member of the delegation.
Now that MR.Matherani is being questioned after his arrival in INDIA on saturday night, by ED & IB officials,it would be interesting to watch what more would follow.
The events all over protends the slide,unfortunate though.
People are wondering at it,not withstanding the several statements that followed the publication of the so called interview or off the record statements made by him to india today.The reason given out for such a step is not very much convincing.People await further unfolding of this suspense thriller!!!
friend,did the knowledge and light we have today bring about any marked changes in the attitudes and approches of the mankind?IT is good to have an ideal to lead us.But the fact of life at all times is,the mankind lags far behind the ideals,often going in circles,unfortunately.
Friend,such human migrations for green pastures, do take place in all states and countries either developed or undeveloped.The point here is of governance or lack of it.
We all know that it is a remote possibility in the existing circumstances.
MR.Butler,how can we equate the converted christians with the christianity in totality?How do you reconcile the theory which is often propounded here earlier,by some of our friends,that the "caste system" as such has been imported into our country,through the invaders,which means it is akin to "Hinduism" which has been only a way of life coming down from the past?Likewwise,how do you reconcile the castes with the class (upper and lower)which you have been mentioning?
MR.thomaspodimala,glad that you confirmed my earlier views expressed on the board,that the mankind gets divided on several grounds if not on the caste basis which is unique to our country,whatever be its origins.
This division stems from the identity and affinity of interests, culminating in the discriminations aganist each other.These clash of interests often result in the conflicts unfortunately,due to ignorance.
WOULD have a new party at the helm to govern them.
People go by a different standard viewed from the angle of their own sectorial interests from time to time and in each election.This is where most of the intellectual analysts go wrong in their projections in election results,due to their own perceptions.
If the anti-incumbecy factor is a valid one,we should not have had four decades of congress rule across the country,two decades of leftist rule in West Bengal and about 15 years of LALOO'S rule in Bihar.
friend,let us wish the present secular government would abolish all such subsidies forthwith to prove its secular credentials.
friend,this is to put the record straight and for your information.Please be noted,that all elected representatives of the people,swear to uphold the constitution and the principles enshrined therein.
This includes to uphold the "secular"values.The funny part is,there is a hell of competition among the parties, to prove that each one of them is more secular than the other.
You are also wrong, when you tell that RSS forbids other religion people joing it.On the other hand,they welcome all that belong to the nation,to join it.
There is nothing like natural allies,for an alliance,for the alliances could be with unnatural allies too,to serve the self interests,as we see often.
friend, we have wilderness alround.People may have to wait for some one to hear the hues and cries in right earnest.
MR.Butler,it is a good point and sure Pathak would not over look it.
With the probe authority put in place,till its report is tabled along with the ATR in parliament.
MR.Butler,Advani did clarify,but in the heat due to our intrinsic allergies in this regard,none took it kindly.Even now Advani has not retraced from any of his statements made in that country during his visit and none could contradict them either,except finding fault with him,for having mentioned them.Facts are facts.It is a different matter people tend to add their own interpretations and draw inferences to suit them.
Friend,we have multiple agencies one over the other, to oversee the functions and irregularities in all such cases.DON'T WE???
This stand of congress is quite understandable and none need attribute any motives.But one wonders,when the circumstantial evidence points to the resultant profits accrued to congress by way of a tradeoff,for the simple reason,that the political parties are not supposed to be the trading concerns for profit.
Anyway,people can wait for the outcome of the probing entities.
Friend,it was a question and not a conclusion yet.Anyway as you said,let us follow with interest the chain of events,statements and the convoluted language in them,only to satisfy.
MR.Butler,away from the heat,please honestly tell,whether it was not a fact that he was in congress,till he parted company,and has not congress held him in high esteem as a leader, till the partition,even then???
REFERENCES,even after three days of the announcement,is bound to send the wrong and confusing signals alround.
Friend,the role of the envisaged committee is different,from the routine functions of ED.Let there be no mix up.
Only a still born child,for it is not mandatory for the UN to share the evidence,with such committees.This is the impression one gains, after going through the statement by our UN ambassodor Nirupam Sen.It is interesting!
MR.ikbal,you are right on dot,for none with forms can see the formless!!!
AND HIS FIRM only.If so why this drama at all?
Pathak is under the impression and said so,that he would be probing into the allegations aganist "Natwar and Congress" as contained in volcker's report.PMO tells,the terms of reference will be announced shortly.
Is all this confusion warranted???
PRIMA FACIE,with the contents of the volcker's report? If there appears to be a semblance of truth in the report,then why should Natwar be allowed to continue in the cabinet,till he is fully cleared by the committees apointed by the government?How is it that Natwar is able to hold on aganist the wishes of his own well wishers?
Is he playing the cards,close to his chest? These are some intriguing questions that haunt the people,till the dawn of the angel truth!!!
TO indulge in the trade,at the prefixed rates.
"Transperency" is the most expected norm and least respected in tradeoffs,as is known.
The problem arises,when such deals of non-transperency,comes into question,under the laws.
Or else,it is a win-win situation for all.
"Truth" surfaces at unexpected times,much to the chargin of people involved.
The innocent ones have nothing to fear and rattle.
MR.Butler,thank you for upholding that the partition,would not have taken place,had our leaders stood their ground,irrespective of the fact,what views were held by Jinnah and his ilk.Anyway,it is too late now,to lament over the past.
Let us not forget the fact,that Advani,only repeated "Jinah's statement"with no adjectives or adverbs added.people over reacted and out of context.
Since, as we have seen,the words "Secular and Secularism" mean several things to several people,they lost their true meaning and are superfluous, more so in politics.
MR.Butler,you alone furnished me the polling % figures,in one of your responses and it is good,the same stand to be corrected now.
As for the divergencies you mentioned,even Russia and China had them in some form or the other.So this is an untenable arguement friend.
You may be right,in stating that the communists did not have a charismatic leader in their ranks.But communists do not accept,in theory atleast,any personality cult to develop,where as the facts were to the contrary,wherever,they came to power.
Anyway,thank you friend,for we shared the pleasantness of the discussions,mostly educative in nature,and had the benifit out of them.Wish you all,all the best.
MR.Butler,the BJP,instead would have asked our government,to obtain the information from the UN and tabled it in the house,for its consideration,there by setting up a "good precedent".
Friend,the governments in all such cases will have no other options,except to appoint commissions or committees,to diffuse the heat.No grace is left even now,when congress said,it served a "legal notice"on UN.
MR.thomaspodimala,all know it has been only a "report"but not a chargesheet.instead of allowing the government to deal with the UN,in an appropriate manner,just like in other countries,there has been an "over reaction" causing "confusions",from all sides.
Now that the government took a belated action though,to appoint the "probe committee" in this regard,let us hope finally the "truth" would be unravelled.
MR.Butler,a similar post of yours,further down below,stands duly answered.No further comments friend!
MR.thomaspodimala,the UN has said,it would co-operate with all countries (meaning the governments)in this regard.This explains their approch,and should suffice for now.Let us wait to see the unfolding scenes.
MR.Butler,the UN has said that they would co-operate with all countries(meaning there by the governments)in this regard.Now that our government has appointed the "probe committees",and the PM has stated that they would get to the bottom of the truth,"it is fair",to wait for the proceedings.
Friends,better,we have the provisions in the constitution,to enable the transfers of chief ministers too,from one state to the other.
Friend,in the process of "evolution" things are bound to change.
Well friend,it is a big ???
They overlooked the fact,that the Volcker's committee has been appointed by the UN in which "RUSSIA & CHINA"happened to be the 'Left wing Veto powers',but not by USA as is being implied by them now.
Could this be construed by the people,as a "disinformation campaign"launched by them???
To avoid alround embarassment,without prejudice to the end result.
MR.Butler,on the contrary,a majority of countries like "Russia,
Australia,Switzerland and South Africa" have ordered domastic probes,into the volckers findings.
Your implication,that this report has been an USA inspired one,because of Saddam's trial,would be called in for questions during the trial itself,were it to be so.Even otherwise,the report comes for a discussion in both the "UNSC & UNGA,BEFORE ITS ADOPTATION" for necessary further action if any.
Friend,Is the foreign policy of a country,not a collective decision,more so in a democracy???
MR.Butler,a more "objective and balanced" posting is expected from you,on an important issue,than a routine one.
Friend,may be,it is for that reason,a lot of misinformation and disinformation are being spread alround,to confuse the public and camouflage the truth.
MR.Butler,your comment is away from the facts,with the other "four veto holding powers" firmly sharing the power structure of UN,along with USA.
Friend,after all,this is a report,which would be debated threadbare,both by the UNSC and the UNGA,before acceptance and inintiation of any further course of action,by the UN as such.
Instead of jumping like frogs,we could have called for more authentic details from the UN and made our effective contribution,in either repudiating the validity or accepting the report in totality,with more tenable arguements.
Friend,all this is beating round the bush.My question was simple.Could the partition have taken place,if the people revolted aganist the ridiculous proposition of "Partition"?The post of PM or president or power sharing comes later,as is the case even now as we see!!!
What I mean to say is the multitude of people have been mute spectators,meekly accepting the things,and they have to blame themselves largely,for this unfortunate event.
MR.Butler,disagreed with your assessment and arguements,that gloss over the facts.We all know that MKG has been a strong leader of "convictions" fighting aganist the British,for the independence of the country.None could bully him.It is different matter,he was cast aside by his followers,in the race for power and became helpless.
Friend,however,I agree with you,when you said,that one should be judged in "totality",but not in cuts and bits,and this should be applied to all,and that includes 'Advani' too.
As the world knows,away from politics,Jinnah was never an orthodox Muslim.All know,that he was in congress party,following MKG,till he parted company,whatever be the reasons.
Friend,the last point that"was any letter sent,by any 'SENIOR CONGRESS LEADER' to the Saddam regime "is the most important one.
If their reply points to an individual,the congress can always rebutt it,by stating,that the individual is not a 'senior congress leader,but a junior one,though holding an important office.This leads to an interesting litigation that drags on and on.
Friend,did he say he changed the 'content'?As long as he does not change the content,the language should not matter.The fact he made a public statement,despite the embarassment or humiliation,he would have to put up with,makes the report more credible,for he said the "truth".
It is admirable.
Friend,the very purpose is to confuse the public and issues as well.Orelse,where is the need to institute two probes,besides the otherwise regular contacts being made to UN, through the diplomatic channels?
Across the world,for its actions and reports?The way the plethora of requests made to UN regarding the 'Volcker's report'in general and its references to individuals, parties,and companies pertaining to INDIA in particular,appears to be so.People wonder whether it is the case!!!
Friend,the whole country is talking about the volcker report now.
Friend,one need to assertain the facts,and counter with facts,but not with assumptions and presumptions.Please read carefully,Mr.volcker's statement,regarding the official status of Natwarsingh,to understand its purport(satire).
Makes it look like "more credible".In the first place,people concerned should have sought relevant details from the UN and the author of the report,instead of rubbishing it and trying to put a lid over it,with their kneejerk reactions.
MR.Butler,the questions are:
1)In the first place,why did congress capitulate to the threats of Jinnah,and agreed for the partition,despite opposition from MKG?
2) Was it not a fact that Jinnah was a "part of congress and a secular"till he joined Muslim league?
3) Was it not a fact that Advani only repeated a statement purported to have been made by Jinnah,after the partition?If so what was wrong with that?
Friend,democracy shelters all beliefs and that includes dogged opposition.
Well said MR.Butler.I would like to qualifyyour statement,that for the effective functioning of such a dedicated anti-terror network,we also need a "Determined leadership and constant vigil by the people too".
Without which it ends up with only glib talks and protest notes only.This is no way for certain.
Friend,terrorism has no boundaries and terrorists have no respect for any laws,more so in a land where the people have scant respect for the laws.We need, not alone law makers,but impartial law enforcers too.
MR.Butler,I shall get back to you on this shortly.
Friend,unfortunately,people relish the opposites more.
MR.Butler,well said and this includes "people",whose bystander's role is more culpable,that culminated in the partition.
MR.rightist_worker,why to blame a few leaders,instead of the people on both sides,who were surcharged with emotions and crying for partition?Could the partition have taken place,if the people rose like one man opposing it?We all know that MKG opposed the partition and none were prepared then, to listen to this great leader.
MR.Butler,as you rightly said,MR.Advani refered to only "undue influence",MEANING THEREBY, in all other cases earlier,it has been "an influence" ONLY.
MR.balaca,in presentday the words "secular and nonsecular" have lost their relevance,and remain as dresses meant for change to suit the ocassion,for survival.
MR.agniputra,going by the meaning of 'fascist',it is a wonder,that communists are supporting the "congress led UPA" Government now!!!
Friend,do you mean to say,that all other parties do not belong to the community?This is strange indeed.
Instead of trying to put a lid over it,by stating that the facts are "insufficient" to arrive at any adverse conclusion.This is the least,expected of him,given the fact that it is a "UN sponsered committee",and its report,has to be given due weightage.
Friend,all are possible!
MR.Butler,how could Jinnah alone be blamed for the partition of the country,without the agreement from ourside?
MR.Butler,beg to differ with respect to the comparison.We all know how profits are shown as losses and vice versa!!!
Friend,tell us "who is that secular God and how he looks like"???
MR.agniputra,the globalisation concept is meant to 'achieve'the benifits by all.None conducted any 'census'so far,relating to your question,to the best of my knowledge.If you have any specifics,you are welcome to furnish the same.
MR.BUTLER,FUNDAMENTALLY,Your comparison and analogy are wrong.Government is "No Corporate company" and both are distinctively different in their "Objectives,goals and approches".
This has been the history of communists the world over.It is interesting to note,with respect to India,that though the communist party of INDIA (CPI) has been formed in 1925,their(presently communists of all hues) influence as of now, is mostly confined to Kerala,West Bengal and Tripura,with an average tally of about 8% of the people,across the country,who votes in favour of them.
This is a revealing contrast,when compared to RSS,which has also come into existance in the same year of 1925 as a socio cultural organisation,whose strength has been steadily growing.The BJP,an offshoot or front of RSS as is generally opined,which came into existance as Janasangh in early 50s,and later as BJP from 1979-80,has a poll rate of about 32%across the country in 1998,which came down to about 24% in 2004.Their influence chiefly is confined to the states of UP,BIHAR,RAJASTHAN,GUJARAT,MAHARASHTRA,MADHYAPRADESH,ORISSA,DELHI,JARKHAND AND CHATTISGARH,PUNJAB,HIMACHAL PRADESH AND HARYANA.
It makes an interesting reading,that with the dwindling fortunes of Congress,once considered to be a monolithic organisation,the main gainers happened to be BJP and other regional parties,but not the communists.
It is time for them to introspect,where they WENT WRONG and failed in a country like India,whose poverty rate stands at about 3o% even now.!!!
It is a pity, both the CPI AND CPI-M,have been "derecognised as national parties" by the EC,prior to 2004 elections.
This could be a wakeup call for all "communists,the Government and people" at large,coming as it is from chinese communist party,with regard to MAOISM as such.
Its result is known later as we all know.Friend,THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN LAW BREAKERS,BECOME THE LAW MAKERS.
MR.Butler,you are right,and take it as "no single organisation" exists,for we have too many of them cropping up and vanishing as well,unlike others.
Friend,there is nothing wrong with expectations?
Friend your point is well taken,but don't you think that these profits contribute for the government exchecker only,to be utilised on other welfare measures for the good of the people???
MR.Butler,if so,how can we term the acceptance of a commission's report by another government, to be wrong?If attributes are given,for actions taken and not taken also to suit the convieniences,how could there be a forward momentum?
MR.Butler,there is no denying of the fact,that we do not have an inbuilt'social security'systems in place,to take care of all contingencies.It is also an undeniable fact that the 'sectional interests' widely differ too.It is exactly for this purpose,the "Governance" comes into the picture,to harmonise and streamline the measures,for the overall common good.
It is preferable,we have a thinktank,of intellectuals,party representatives etc,to evolve suitable systems with the consensus,which should be binding on all others,lest the very purpose is lost.An agreed "ROAD MAP" is a must,to obviate the frequent haggles that crop up on a daily basis,for the nation and people to move forward.
MR.Butler,yet to see a few cases being denied that satisfies the "eligibility" factors.
MR.Butler,it appears,that the interest rates would be at variance,depending on the "RISK FACTORS" as is known.The agricultural income,being non taxable as of now so far,could be an additional factor fro consideration,in balancing the budget formulations.
MR.Butler,may be you have an angle there.It is unfair on my part to comment,on presumptions,in the absence of the final facts, that stand approved as NPAs,than mere projections.
MR.RMaran,it is well understood,all parties have their own programmatic approches and internal discussions and none disputes this.This is to inform,that the bar imposed on itself by CPI-M in 1964,has come in the way of its acceptance of power,when it was offered the post of PM.This was like a self goal made.
The fact remains,this "historical blunder" has been rectified,in october,2000 by "amending" the imposed bar,at its TRIVANDRUM meeting,which facilitates it to share power with others.
This is only to highlight the facts with no bias friend.
MR.Butler,the fact of the matter is,that in 1964,when the CPI-M came into existance,it has imposed a bar on itself,not to share power at centre.It was in accordance with this stipulation,the central committee,did not clear the accepatance proposal,as there were two warring groups from kerala and west bengal respectively.
The rejection is attributable to this schism,but not out of any virtue as such.This aspect has been confirmed,when the Jyoti Basu termed it as "Historical blunder",and the same has been deliberated for some years.Finally,in 2000,the CPI-M has incorporated the necessary amendment,to share the power in coailition both in states and at centre.
Going by your statement in 1989,even BJP was not in the government.This was because,while both the BJP & LEFT extended the support,each one was opposing the other to be a part of the government.This was a compulsion friend,more than a virtue.
This itself is a proof,that they do not want to let go the power slip by.
This is a nice way of demanding eradication of the caste sysyem in India,while demanding its extension in USA by the champions.Funny indeed.
Friend,my post reads as "loans taken during the liberalised period..",which includes all tenures and none excluded.However,there is an interesting aspect with regard to the NPA list.All those who fail to repay the instalments, as per schedule gets added to the list,though they pay it later,for whatever reasons.This way one is likely to get a distorted version.
And to build a better future,taking a lesson from the past if needed.
Friend,the point is which path is preferable either "REFORMATION OR REVOLUTION" to arrest and alter the slide???
Wish all firends here would contribute with their valuable opinions and arguements.
MR.Butler,normally,the deficit indicates more capital outflow than the inflow, towards the development,where is the surplus indicates the development is slower,if not stagnant,the case being on the reverse.
On all such ocassions,we see presently,the VIPs flying to those areas,to oversee the damage,appear before the media, to announce that a committee will be appointed to study the extent of damage and to recomend the remidial measures.Later,all get diverted to attend to their routine scedules.We have a tendency to follow the dictum that "time will solve the issues".
It is a mute question,even after several disasters big or small that struck,the country does not have the means even to rush help in time,due lack of infrastructural facilities,and provide the much needed medicare,or shelters and rehabilitation of the victims families.
The actions if any, are purely adhoc in nature and no mechanisms are in place to deal with such calamities,as a matter of routine part of their duties.Add to this,the "Apathy" of people,which makes the situation,more deplorable.
This calls for a change of mind set of people in all walks of life.This is not going to happen, in the near future for certain.
MR,RMaran,if this act is not "manipulative",what else is it???It is not where one sits,but what one does that counts friend!!!
Friend,thanks for confirming,my statement that the materialism and globalisation are two different things.
MR.RMaran,If his conclusion is absurd and ridiculous,how come Jyoti Basu termed the decision not to accept the PM'S post then,as a "Historical blunder"???
What is the proper perspective involved in this to understand?
We all can understand the language being the same,which is English.
It is a different matter if one is committed to the dogmas of the party or a leader!Of course,as you said, all are entitled to hold on to the views and have the freedom too to mouth them as well friend.
MR.RMaran,the truth has come out when CPI(M),after its internal debates and introspections
over the views of Jyoti Basu,"when it incorporated an amendment to its 36 year old party program, that bars on its joining a government at the centre" at its party meetings held at TRIVANDRUM from october 20th 2000 to 22nd
october 2000.
The amendment reads as"The participation in governments applies to both state and central governments and the decision is to be taken depending on the concrete situation".
This is the political line of CPI(M) now as it stands,friend!
Trust this clears the mist.
It is all a part of the job expected from banks
whether the loan is big or small.
MR.RMaran,sure CPI-M did endorse Basu's views much later on introspection.The precise date has to be taken from the records.No objection for both of us to check back for this.
MR.rebel,"Honesty is different from Equality".The former is a principle,which could be upheld even by unequals.The later need to be worked upon to usher in.The functions of a government remain the same in any '...stan'.
MR.Butler,they might have made a mess of this pricing mechanism.But it is different from the stock markets.The former relates to regulation by the government and the later to the manipulation by the markets both national and international.
MR.Butler,if aping is bad,comparisons whenever they suit,are worse.When it is good,what is wrong in taking it to emulate,from whichever country it comes.This is how our "Mixed economy" and "Nonalignment" policies have evolved,in the early times,though they lost their relevance now.
MR.Butler,propriety,decency and decorum demands that they should not by pass the democratic institutional forums.It is a different matter,they take up the "unresolved issues" in their co-ordination meetings with the UPA,chaired by Sonia Gandhi.
MR.Butler,who constituted the "Mandal commission"before 1976, and for what purposes and with what references basically?Wonder why you ignored this fundamental aspect?
MR.Butler,if it were to be the premise,as you say, as a matter of policy,it is wrong.But the budget formulations follow a different pattern,to compensate the concessions given to one section or the other,the net being the same.This follows the principle of "your loss is my gain and your profit is my loss".They give with one hand and take it back with the other,leaving the audio & visual effects to leave their impact only.
Regarding the OIL COMPANIES,they are all PSUs,with the Government holding the majority shares,which is the chief benificiary.Of course,the rest of the share holders too derive the accrued benifts/or losses on a prorata basis.
Friend,business is run to make profits and not losses.The Government stands to benifit from the taxes as well,which would be invested in other sectors for the good of the people.
MR.Butler,the rules and proceedures in extending the financial loans remain the same in all the cases,and are governed by the RBI guide lines.The idea behind the reduction of interest rates is to make money available to all sections for more productive purposes,which in turn generates occupational employment.Atleast this is the precept.
We all know mainly the economy depends on two chief factors i.e," Capital & Labour",for a sustained development.Both are to be regulated.
As you said,in the process,it is true,that retired people suffered and or at a loss.Hope this would be suitably be addressed by the govt.
MR.Butler,when there is a sudden reversal of a policy,and money is floating,all rush in to cash upon,despite the high interest rates.But the fact has been,most of the financial institutions which lent the money,during that liberalised period,have the NPAs on much higher side.
True.An unplanned growth leads to all types of problems.
Friend,this is the most unfortunate part!!!
MR.Butler,what is wrong in that?Is it not a good principle,to appreciate one in opposition or even otherwise???
MR.Butler,is Karunanidhi 'anti national'?As we know,all political alliances are oppurtunistic only.
MR.Butler,let us not forgetthe fact that the"Hindutva' allows opposite school of thoughts.
Friend,we all live in the same set up that permits divergences.We are not sure at whom he laughed as we are not present then.Believers and non believers exist at all point of times,and yet coexist.Parties are known to be social functions.The beliefs of the father and son or the head of the family and others need not be the same,with regard to God or otherwise too.We trouble ourselves more,than others troubling us.
MR.Butler,all this only confirms my earlier topic posted "NAME CALLING" under the topic which issues dominate the Bihar polls.Regarding WB,your admittance is fair enough.
MR.Butler,there has never been any difference and all parties did the same thing friend and continues to do the same.
MR.Butler,what has materialisim got to do with globalisation?MATERIALISM relates to matter,and globalisation is only a concept?The former existed even without this globalisation concept friend!!!
Friend,How could you ignore the much more louder noises made then and the notices served by the EC.???
MR.Butler,it might be further interesting to note from 'Fortune'magazine in this context that
"Bad government and inadequete infrastructure" stinted the economic growth of India on par with China,though the economic reforms in both countries were initiated in and from 1990s.
This when read with the FM'S statement on the development on china,clearly indicates what is lacking in us and which areas need the immediete attention for improvements to catch up.
The world over,due to mad race to garner the material benifits for self interests.This will surely lead us to decay and degradation.To alter this slide people have the options either to pursue the path of either "reformation or revolution".
Appreciated MR.Butler.
Appreciated and thank you friend.Yes all means,that suits are justifiable.
MR.Butler,Is it not a fact,that on occassions whenever it suited the communists,having aligned with the communal/religious parties like Muslim league or Keral congress or for that matter even BJP in Kerala in the recent elections???
Friend,it is only oppurtunism in politics that counts.That is how friends and foes change their alliances,to suit them.Once all joined to oppose congress.Now all joined to oppose BJP.Tomorrowall may join to oppose communists or any other.
True,But the parliament has to take up this issue some day or the other and pass the laws.
Friend,we all live with hope.
MR.Butler,VP singh invited both the BJP AND THE LEFT to join his government,for its stability and the rest of it is history.Here it is a classic case,where both the opposing camps made a "common cause" to prop up VPsingh.
MR.Butler,none justifies any unjustifiable action.But,friend,honestly tell,if objections are taken for each and all decisions,terming it as a loot,or scam etc,how could any government move forward,with its developmental projects and welfare measures?
As we know,all decisions could be opposed or justified,as per the freedoms available.
MR.Butler,we all are only discussing as friends on issues,and exchanging views,and no hard feelings towards any one.We are enjoying.Thank you friend.
Friend,all identifications with any cause or faith have their own pitfalls,merits and demerits.None follows,blindly and one has to reap or face the fruits or consequences of one's own actions.Peace is to be aquired by one self alone and none could give it to one.
MR.Butler,all is fine.But is it not the duty and responsibility of all hindus to eradicate this evil caste system?Why do you assign it to only RSS OR VHP,who are only a part and not the whole of the society?It is unfair not to involve all others in this glorious historical reformation movement!!!
For the governing body is nothing but a mirror image of the society itself!!!
MR.Butler,all countries have their own typical problems.The wisdom lies in accepting them as challenges and surmounting them.None solves the problems of others.At best one could help,provided one wants to help himself or themselves.
MR.Butler,all political parties will go down the drain,in course of time,if they forsake the principles.But it is essential,atleast for most of the "people" to have principles, to prove this point.
Sorry MR.Butler,the CPI-M has endorsed the view of Jyoti Basu,stating not to accept the PM'S post as a "Historical blunder",there by proving that 'they are no different' from other power mongers.This robs them of any high moral ground which they are attempting to attain.
MR.Butler,as a principled party as you say,it would have been more appropriate for them,to stick to their "principled ideology" and prefered to sit in the opposition with their limited group of about 60 members in a house of 543 members.This type of manipulative politics are least expected of them,as a principled party.
MR.Butler,your statement that"Even now the left is only taking problems upto Sonia gandhi and not Manmohansingh,even though he is the prime minister" undermines the office of the PM,besides showing the Left and Sonia gandhi in very poor light.It is unfortunate.
MR.Butler,better to say it is a "Contrived Secularism" to serve one's own interests!!!
Friend,"THE UNIVERSAL TRUTH' is, politics is a dirty game and none could be spotless,having entered to play it.
And keep off from dabbling with "POLITICS" for the good of the Nation.
To ensure these essential welfare measures only,people put the governments in place,replacing those who fail them,as we see.
MR.Butler,to usher in equality,the gaps are to be bridged slowly,starting from both ends.
What is it friend???
MR.Butler,too bad the slide is too steep! What a mockery of democracy?Let us see how the other parties react to this onslaught on the democratic principles and institutions!!!
friend,for a susstainable high growth in economy,the development of infrastructural facilities is a must.This cannot happen with a magic wand,but needs alround efforts.
Obviously it happens when one tries to run with handicaps!!!
MR.Butler,how come you addressed "rebel as Maran"? Are they one and the same?How did you find it,if true?It is interesting!
MR.Butler,is there any fixed rule any one who got a distinction in the weekly exams,should not fail in the final exams???
MR.Butler,if the communists are able to win in WB AND TIPURA,how is it that the LDF in Kerala is not able to win continuously,on the same anology???
MR.Butler,your question should have been,"why the secularists did not vote in large numbers to put MODI on the defensive"?.
Paswan says there is nothing wrong in it.Is he making a "Mockery of Secularism" having labled himself as a secularist?Interesting to see how EC deals with it now,not to speak of SC at later stages!!!
MR.Butler,we have this noise pollution from all sides.But is it your contention that West Bengal and Bihar are the most advanced and leading states of India and hence there is no anti incumbency factor in those states???
MR.Butler,not to speak of the politics,your post mostly relates to 1)the Administered prices and 2) The market prices,which stand on a different footing.While the former is linked to the international pricing,which is ever increasing,the later is linked to productivity to benifit the consumers ultimately,with reduced prices,mostly covering the middle class and poor,to a large extent.
As we all know,the concessions accorded with one hand would be taken back with the other,with increased tax collections either directly or indirectly.
EVEN NOW they are empty lands only friend.When you take into consideration,that most of these NTC units there are non-functional,sure the environment is not polluted.On the other hand allowing them to function there itself,would tantamount to compromising on the said "Environmental "laws.
MR.Butler,my original post itself reads as "power without responsibility".Why should any one assume power and responsibility, when one can twist the power center,to its whims,without responsibility,with out being in majority? It is a "win,win"situation for any one.This has been the case when both BJP and LEFT supported VPSINGH.
MR.Butler,CPI-M has also endorsed the view of Jyotibasuthat it was a "Historical blunder".
Politics is all about "POWWER" only.To achieve this,the strategies may vary,as publicly stated by a late CPI/CPI-M leader himself,to be very specific to the context,and applies to all other parties as well!!!
MR.Butler,Haven't we agreed,that none is a holy cow in politics and all are sinners only?People get what they deserve,for, it is they who play a major role in this,for their self interests.When a society is mostly,devoid of any values,it is reflected every where!!!
MR.Butler,poor masses would benifit only with the improvement of their living standards.All efforts in this direction are welcome.
This calls for a "noble and strong leadership with vision,an honest society and an awareness among the people of all classes,that the rights entails responsibilities as well.
"The absence of these prerequisites,only lead to "degradation and decay in the society, that would set in,ultimately ANARCHY".
MR.rebel,this is to clarify,that the 'caste system and democratic system' are two different things.The former relates to a "professional/social order,while the later relates to a political order.
Better we have a little more indepth knowledge of vedas etc,which you mentioned,before pronouncing our opinionated judgements.
FRIEND,WHEN ONE CONTINUES TO repeat,it becomes a tradition,as we all know,be it right or wrong.
MR.Butler,laws could always be amended,not to allow more than three or four parties for contesting the elections.All are possible if we have the will.
Friend the polling %s have little meaning in the existing set up.The arthemetics are always interpreted to ones advantage,as we all know.
Friend,your statement that "A true secular can never be a criminal or corrupt,because his thinking is not biased" is too much presumptory.There is nothing like a true secular.Either one is or not.
MR.Butler,"emergency" is a part of the democratic set up only.
MR.Butler,then all have to live with it for ever.The people,parties and government have a choice to decide which way to go!!!
MR.Butler,all tell the same thing in politics,but what happens in reality is different.
MR.Butler,THE SYSTEM CALLS FOR IT,but people are not conforming to it.The dreams could only be realised when people change their mindsets and work hard in tandem with the system.
MR.Butler,why to deflect from the poser,"how it is going to help in protecting the environment"?
We all know the court judgements are to be honoured at all times,unlike the emergency declarations,when they are inconvienient!!!
MR.Butler,then how come their own pet countries like China and Russia, are falling in line with the globalisation concept???
MR.Butler,the rejection then was based on the surmise,that the government would not last long and they wanted assured long tenures.There is nothing like a morality or sacrifice in this act,for they themselves termed it as a "Historical blunder" later!!!
This has been covered too on the other board friend.
MR.Butler,this has been answered by me on a different board.Any way all governments do make decisions,right or wrong,and face the consequences.
May be he considered it as a reward for the "intelligence".Anyway,it was not warranted,by any streach of imagination or logic.
Friend,I do not see much of a difference,for even then,parties in the NDA were threatening to withdraw support and some of them did too.
The left's credibility is in doubt friend.Or else,what is the great thing that happened for them, to come back to the co-ordinaton committee now,with no "policy change" really taking place,regarding the disinvestment,except putting the decision on BHEL on "hold".
All know what it means.
Well friend,sure you know for certain "what is a momentum"???Speeds should be within safe limits,whatever be the mode of vehicle chosen,as we know.
Friend,I am only putting the things in the proper perspective,when friends are taking only one sided views.
Now that you also say the same,let us see,whether things would improve.
Your point is well taken friend.Yes,the improvements and developments need to be done,in a well stipulated "time frame".But here again we have to consider ever changing "Aspirations and expectations" of people,in a materialistic world.Sky is the limit for these.
It is this,that leaves the people with disappointments and despires leading to frustations.
Friend,there will always be room for improvements,in all fields, specially in execution and governance.But this should not preclude us from "not to have a start itself".One need to start some where.
All parties have their own individual manifestos.Yet in a pre or post poll alliances, have a limited understanding on a CMP,written or unwritten,for implementaion,as we have seen with NDA & UPA @ centre, OR LDF OR UDF IN KERALA ,AND THE LEFT IN West Bengal.
Thank you friend for your convergence.This means,at all times,instead of having the majority rule,people would be having a rule by the minority.
This ridiculous aspect need to be addressed to,by all the constitutional pundits,to improve and remove this glaring anamoly,to make the democracy more vibrant and meaningful.
When this is distributed among the major three formations in the fray,it is probable,that none of them crosses atleast,the 50% of the votes polled even.This means,the winning candidate could muster far less % of the total electorate,and yet,claim,that majority people elected the candidate,with huge/thumping margins.The same applies to parties as well.
But the point,to be pondered over by all,who are interested in democracy,is,"how could it be said,that,with about nearly 75% of the electorate,showed 'disinterest' in a candidate or a party,they had the mandate of the majority,to rule"???(the %s are taken on a mean average basis).Is it not the greatest falacy???
But not to any religious order.The similar if not the same systems exist even today, in other societies,in furtherance of the common interests.
Be it,on "class,caste,creed,race,religion,region,
language etc".This has been a part of the evolution process,resulting in conflicts often.
Friend,the EC need to take the necessary action uniformly in all such violations.
MR.Butler,the appeasement is part of the human nature,and one grows with it and lives with it.What is needed is the man put at helm of the state should only be free from 'prejudices,prides and partialities' in administering or governing the state(country),whatever be the form of governing systems.When we see so many evils cropping up in a democratic set up,just imagine how worse it would be with other systems,where the absolute power is totally concentrated.Each system has its merits and demerits.
Thank you MR.Butler,for elucidating and clarifying,that this caste system is primarily based on occupations,which has been coming down the ages.This means it is a "social order" which pertains to all societies,though the names and forms may vary and valid even today.
Even Manusmriti(Manusamhita to be precise) refers to this social order." SMRITI" means 'recollection or tradition'.This being the case,MANU should have refered to the tradition,which should have been in vogue already,but not its author evidently,as is mostly conceived by people now.
Thank you MR.Butler for your agreement.Appreciated.
MR.Butler,well said!Yes, all have to furnish in the present setup Both "Religion & Caste" seperately,vide the respective columns.This means,"the religion is not the same as caste" and they have different identities,coming down from ages,whatever be the system of governance.
We all know, while the religion is a spiritual order,the caste system relates to a social order and not related to the religious order.
MR.Butler,then,why do communists,wants to perpetuate them now,instead of demanding either their(slums) total eradication or improvements atleast,for good?
Friend,Why to bid a goodbye,when all praise both the precepts and practices of the democracy we follow?
How is it going to protect the environment,when it gives raise to more slums,in the heart of the city?
The High courts verdict relates with regard to relocation of the NTC units,on environmental considerations,after generating their own funds through the sale or disposal,from the center of the city and its connected laws there of,if I am not wrong!
MR.Butler,in present day coalition politics,the fundamental CMP is retention of'power',in which all its partners want their pound of flesh,It is a mute point whether we call this as an 'influence or compromise'.Both these factors have their own costs.
Well said! There is no deviation from the concept of reforms as such,even now.The influences you mentioned,could only hinder their forward movement.
YAH! What is in a name,when formulations are same?
Friend,as we all know the economy is to be 'dynamic but not static'and is related to over all planning and development'that entails costs,to be disributed,in the budget formulations.Or else,How do we get out-puts,without in-puts,and the real development???
Friend where is the contradiction?Will the poorman understand all the economic jargon when it is given to him as a statistical data?
All sections of the society understand these reforms,in terms of what benifits have accrued to them only,but not the nation as a whole.
MR.Butler,please tell "which right can justify a wrong"???
MR.Butler,this anti-incumbency factor need to be applied uniformly in all situations without exception.Is it not?
Friend,all parties who participate in our elections are secular,as they swear by the constitution.The words 'secular and secularism'are being distorted and used to exploit the ignorant masses,for one's advantage,in politics.This meaningless debate goes on,only to shout in the game of one upmanship.
Friend,Post poll celebrations by winners are a common feature all over.
Friend,none forsakes any thing,unless one forsakes the 'Ego'.
MR.Butler,what is needed is a moral reformation,but not a revolution.What is the use of a revolution,void of values? All "Revolutions stem from hatred,while the Reformations stem from the need to transform".
So,we all sail in the same boat,trying to mock at each other,when all have blackend faces only!!!
Mr.Butler,what has democracy,got to do with the caste system? Has the caste system been not in existance,even before the dawn of democracy for India,which was only after winning our independence in 1947,under different systems of the fragmented rule,by several people,like,"Emperors,monarchs,kings,tyrants,feudal lords etc",dating back to BCE???
Further,having said that 'Hinduism is nothing but a way of life',but not a religion,how could that be linked to religion now?Is it not a contradiction?
Yes,all welcome,a caste less,religion less and inequality less society,ideologically.We all know that 'ideology'is always a distant goal on the move!!!
MR.Butler,the way things have been hanging in fire for the last 14 years,with regard to the disposal/sale of the five sick mills of NTC,by the NTC,still does not give much of a hope.Let us not forget the fact,now the litigation would move on to the SC,with not much of a solace for others.
Thank you MR.Butler.But friend,can you tell why this 'caste system' has been only unique to our country and society,which does not exist any where else in the world,and if so from which time and for what reasons???
Hungry stomachs cannot digest the emotive issues forever.The sooner the better if its identification with the poor people takes place,while formulating its own economic and other policies.
All are practical and nothing is impossible.Let us all wish things would take their own course automatically,in all such cases as a system,but not aganist demands only.
Improvements in the slums for welfare are welcome.But their perpetuation cannot be called as 'welfare' friend!
All say that the nation has a bright future.Let us all work for its fullfillment.
Friend,the "espionage and counter espionage" by all nations,without exception,is an accepted rule of governance,in all ages and times.Hence all enquiries are useless in this regard.
One's own system failures would be enquired into,to plug the loopholes,if any, by the respective governments,and it remains mostly confidential.
-Ultimate responsibility lies,for the security,both internal and external.
People wonder,how could it be with held from the commission,when the then prsident himself has divulged the contents of his communication,to the them PM,"partly atleast and publicly" through the media? How do the people expect the truth to come out,if the inputs are not made available to the commission?
Continuation of the "economic reforms" initiated,by its predecessors,since they are also committed for the same, is no sin friend.It is no different even now.
Let the people accept the verdict.
Can only say,it is a misperception friend.
"HINDUISM" has not become "INDIANISM"!All know that the word 'SINDHU'(River)has become 'HINDU'and inhabitants of the land as "HINDUS"from,the times of our trade relations,BCE, with Parsees(present Iranians),and later,the westerners pronounced it as "IND,INDUS RIVER,INDIANS AND INDIAN OCEAN".
As our SC gave the verdict that "Hinduism is nothing but a way of life"in the recent times,the misconcepts which crept into our minds,because we are accustomed to learn and see through the westren books and eyes,should atleast cease from now.
No more we should term it as a religion,as the others are and understand its way of life,in its proper perspective.This would help for all to live in peace and harmony to a large extent.
MR.Butler,It is good that the SC has given the verdict,that "Hinduism is nothing but a way of life",which means that it is not a religion as such,as is generally construed.
This should put an end to all sorts of derogatory comments by the people,projecting it to be a religion.Hope all would agree to honor the SC verdict.
In a democracy,people get what they deserve!
friend,in modern age, people invent several things and this includes political shifts and new found alliances,as it happened,in the recent elections in Kerala, in general and in palakkad The CPI-M stronghold,in particular.All are possible friend.
It is a good wish friend.But the "divisive factors" listed by you,in your second line,mostly survive in time,while it is not the case with others.These divisive factors remain the breeding grounds for disunity,at all times.
MR.Butler,appreciated for conceeding,that the people of Gujarat returned MODI "due to the Godhra and its aftermath" which tells the tale fully.Your statistics furnished amply prove this.
As we know in all elections some emotive issue or the other is brought to the forfront,by one or the other to cash in.THIS IS NORMAL.
How can the union cabinet be misled,with so many leaders in it?
Friend,your musings,which are restrictive in nature,are in bad taste.On the same analogy,what do you say, as we had several natural disasters that struck other parts and people of the world?
What a great turn around? Whom are they trying to fool? This is supposed to be fair and not a fraud on people.
Is it not possible that the highest sinner too can have the poor people's interest in their hearts,and not necessarily the otherway?
Communists have a tradition to always support the wrong causes,either by intention or default.
May be he has a point.This may avoid internal bickering and ensure the discipline among its leaders to start with.
MR.agniputra!May be you think you are only the real democrat.It is your preserve.
Friend,let people enjoy the fun of all permutations and combinations,till the final curtain drops.
People have to wait for the finals.
BR.Butler,if 'Hinduism is a conglomeration of castes' AS YOU SAY,(there by meaning it is no religion),WHERE IS THE QUESTION OF 'DEGRADING'the religion as a whole? Is it not contradictory?.
Will EC take any further prompt punitive action?
If not what is the use of such statements is being pondered over by the people.
"Due to sensivities",in the words of PAK PRESIDENT.While his sensivities are understandable,this is a time when all have to raise above politics,to share and overcome the effects of the devastating tragedy,that struck the region.
It is a demand made by a political party,without even projecting,who that good leader is.This is where the catch lies.
Friend,politics is a different game.Assuming for arguement's sake that people vote for NDA,in large numbers,there is no guarantee,that it would not split later and join others,with the lust for power from the individuals.
May be they are tilting towards congress.
Mr.butler,we all know,the CMs are not elected by the LokSABHA.
It is interesting to have a new definition from you, that
"Hinduism is nothing but a conglomeration of cates" WHICH IS MORE REVEALING.
Let the Govt institute another commission to look into these allegations if any,to bring out the facts.None objects.
Till a few days back,it is known as RJD led alliance.Why the sudden change of name now is the point?
But,MR.Burdhan of CPI makes a ridiculous statement that "There is nothing wrong in MR.Paswan's demand to make a Muslim as CM".He forgot the facts that we had and we have even now,
Muslims in exalted positions,be it as CM,GOVERNOR,CHIEF JUSTICE OR PRESIDENTS.But coming as it is from COMMUNISTS,this religious angle,being played for political gains besides being cheap,indicates about their "MIGHTY FALL" from their secular pedastal,not to speak of their ideology.OPPURTUNISTS ALL!!!
Please refer to my post in MB 12 under caption
"LET INDIA MAKE REQUISITE LAWS TO STRENGTHEN EC".
The SC order is welcome in that the"Unconstitutionality of dissolution" flows from the original act of the"unconstitutionality"
of not putting the "assembly" of the constitutionally,elected representatives,in the first place,irrespective of the fact who forms the government which comes next.
It is not clear from the order,what happens to the earlier "elected representatives" under the circumstances,now that the present elections have been allowed.People may have to wait for the full and final judgement from the SC,to know,how it covered this important grey area,specially while dealing with the other institutions under the constitution.
With due regard to the facts and circumstances.This could be the basis again for further litigation,on the ground,that any or all actions flowing from and out of an ' unconstitutional act' are untenable and hence become invalid.Of course,this part of the drama may be enacted,after,the present elections,by the losers in the game.
Indeed a great way of building a welfare state!!!
MR.Butler,what does 'Hinduism' mean to you?Is it a way of life,a philosophy or a religion,to make our discussions meaningfu and purposeful?
MR.Butler,my poser to friend R.Maran,relates to the book by M'HAN,which he refered to in his post,but not to Jain diary,which has been dealt with earlier.
Same coin is different from the other.Which is it?
MR.Butler! My response just a few minutes before
relates to the other friend and not you.Sorry for the lapse.
Friend,this is to refresh your memory as you posted a message earlier,that ADVANI was let off by a court,on a technical matter,in this regard.
This means,the matter has been investigated and a trial held.Why do you say differently now?
Instead of shying away.The people should know the truth.
This is one more issue of our agreement.BTW.
Friend, we had several agreements and disagreements as well earlier,on the issues or points and may continue to have them,with nothing personal.BTW.
MR.Butler,let us not forget the fact,that still a commission is enquiring into the death or mysterious disappearance of 'Netaji Subhas chandra bose'.The book if I am not wrong,refers back to the first PM times as early as 1950s,as per the reports.The enquiry should be into our system failures,to improve upon.This is how it should be taken,in good spirit.What is wrong in that?
We live in 21st century,and he heads us by two centuries!
When'MERIT TAKES THE FLIGHT' We all know,what remains?
True,but who cares in the game of politics?It would be better,if there are 100% reservations for all indians,instead if inching slowly to it.
MR.agniputra,your intolerance to the opinion of others,shows 'who are the real fascists'on this democratic forum.Needs no further comments.
This relates to the ' VISA ' for his trip to USA,
which was considered as an insult,even by the Government then.This has nothing to do with our internal politics.
People are perplexed.This is with regard to all types of allegations,irrespective of the parties involved,which incldes BJP as well, and right through,since our independence,relating to the funding by the foreign intelligence agencies,or even otherwise.
It appears so,the way things are,with the different group of alliances in Bihar election fray.Lalu called his group as 'secular democratic alliance' while others are not.
People Wonder what others would say on this,specially CPI,LJP,SP,BSP AND CPI-ML?
LALU says that he leads a secular democratic alliance,which means the congress,CPI(M)and NCP,WHILE OTHER ALLIANCES are non-secular and undemocratic.This is more amusing for parties like CPI,LJP,CPI-ML AND JD(U) AND BJP,not to speak of other parties,like SP & BSP,as to how all of a sudden,they have become so.
People equally wonder,what happened to the 'Left',for its disintegration,on the side lines.
Both caste based and religion based,for getting the fact that there are 'constitutional limitations'to fullfill them.People by now are accustomed for the tricks of the trade fully,and relish it too.
This is a proud moment for all Indians to cherish.
Friend,what are the standards to evaluate,any Goverment's performance?This is purely academic,and without attributes.
Friend,if upholding the principle of democracy,is known as a tilt,you may be right.
May be,waiting for the report of the commission,to say that finally.
Friend,it is evident,that you are short in facts.
The present PM apologised,after the receipt of the commission's report,only recently.
Friend,The communists have been there in national politics,even before BJP was born.None could dispute this fact.What could be the reason,in your opinion,for the NDA Govt,in not instituting an enquiry aganist them,as per the contents of the book by M'HAN,refered by you?
Friends,let us not ignore the fact,that the present opposition leader MR.Advani,in his recent letter to the PM,demanded a full fledged 'enquiry' aganist all foreign funding (to both the parties and individuals),since our INDEPENDENCE,to bring out the 'truth and facts'.Let us all wish,this would take place,to set the record straight,at the earliest.
The fact that the views on issues and shouts are distinct from each other,from whichever party they come from.Since,it is often acknowledged by media and others,that the 'congress and Bjp are two sides of the same coin',it is clear to all that their views are similar if not the same.We see consensus on several issues.Is it not?
TOO bad THE NDA GOVT failed to fullfill its promise to bring the white paper regarding the ISI activities!
The untouchability is not an ideal,and is different from curruption,more so when it comes from foreign agencies.
Let us wish it.The emphasis of my post has been only to prove once again,that none are holy cows to mock at each other,with the 'interests of the nation,people and their own ideologies'thrown to winds friend.Thanks for your concurrence the cases of UPA & NDA HAVE BEEN SIMILAR.
This applies to all political parties,leaders and the people at large without exception.But one wonders,if this be so,why cannot the parties and leaders make a common cause to form the 'national' government,to attend to these interests of the nation and people?The case in example is the state of BIHAR itself!
Friend,the tussles between RJD & LJP,THE ON AND OFF THREATS FROM THE LEFT,THE WAY A SENIOR CABINET MINISTER went public stating that the vote on IRAN has not been discussed at all,in the cabinet prior,(ofcourse it is a different matter,that he was advised at the core group meeting to desist going public,as reported)besides other earlier cases,where PM used to be bypassed, are all in the public knowledge.
The discussions are on because of varying national interests only,to arrive at a solution.
Congress describes now, Advani as a lame duck president of BJP meaning that he need not be taken seriously.May be right.But they cannot afford to ignore him as the opposition leader and invariably need to take his views serously.
That the issue of vote at the IAEA has not been discussed at the cabinet meeting,thereby implying that the cabinet has not been taken into confidence.
Do you mean to say that the power without responsibilities,tastes better?
One wonders,whether the Bihar assembly exists or does not exist as of now!This is the constitutional puzzle.
Looks the LS POLLS could be round the corner once again,if one observes the ongoings between the allies,its supporting parties and within the cabinet as well!!1
Could it be any different this time?
People are disappointed to hear that it stands reserved and may come in only on 18th or 19th October.
Can we attribute this nonimplementation of laws due to poor governance?
People are anxiously awaiting for it.
Was not the present CPI(M) a part of the CPI,which was one of the receipants of the KGB pay offs???
All is fair in love and politics.
This is what has been happening all the time,which is unfortunate. v
And does not speak of biases of 'gender,status,social,political or economic'issues.All these are society related problems.These interpolations in several religious scriptures of all religions,arise,because,in both the cases,"an individual" occupies the pivotal point in the relations.This is the basic reason,for the mix up of issues,and interjections made quite out of context.
True.But it is not desirable to mix up facts with fiction to suit.This will give a distorted view of a situation and the person as well.
Friend, if you think that BJP was responsible for the said riots,why no action was taken by the then congress GOVT,at centre,to ban this party or any others responsible for those riots?Even now it is not too late for the UPA govt to take action,with all the information available to it.Let them do it first and then speak.
Friend,the communal divide is bad and for good they should unite.But unfortunately,the seeds of this polarisation lies in the partition,when congress was at the helm,and BJP no where.There were several communal rites during the congress rule,right from the days of independence,the commissions appointed,the reports of which mostly never laid on the table,and no actions taken aganist the culprits or to ban the organisations found guilty of those henious crimes.why???This is what I call one sided and prejudiced view.Ofcourse,I do not advise you to join the band vagon of the GOONS!
Agreed.But friend,how is it going to die,when people of all castes are interested only in its perpetuation?Why not the present government,the most progressive one, initiate steps for eradication of this evil from the society,instead of furthering it?
Friend,does one has the freedom to choose one's birth?The fact we are able to express ourself freely now,is the freedom,unlike in some of the other communities,is what I am talking about.What you you mentioned relates to a social problem.
Opinions differ.No harm if you hold on to yours.
The definition of secularism will not change from country to country.Religion and secularism are opposite school of thoughts and coexists side by side,at all times.None disputes this fact.
Message from the enlightened souls remain the same at all times.In practice people miss both the spirit of the message and thereby the peace.
Is it? Leaving aside, whether it is a religion at all,all its philosophical thoughts,center round the concept of 'shedding one's identity',of which all Hindus are proud of.Whether they practice it in the true sense is a different matter.
It is a good analysis on 'Identity crisis',which has been coming down over centuries,if not ages.
The crisis arises in one's mind due to lack of clarity of both in thought and action.This is chiefly attributable to the fact, that there is nothing like a single 'HINDU RELIGION'unlike others,which have been organised religions with a single faith.The multiplicity of different schools of philosophical and religious thoughts,have been a divisive force,than an unifying force.Add to this the 'unique caste system'prevelent only in Hindu society,which includes converts to other religions,as is being demanded now,the situation degenerates further.
The submission here is,instead of crying horse all the time,that others are responsible for all the ills of the Hindu society,better to organise the needed reforms,by the Hindus themselves in 'UNISION',in all the fields,that incldes a 'single religion'.
Untill then,this 'Identity crisis' continues,
and one has to live with it,fortunately or unfortunately.
True, in respect of all political parties as you said.But the fact remains that there were,there are and there would be 'secularists',in all times,along with the opposite schools of thought.
Please first know,that all secularists oppose all types of religious faiths,without exceptions,and they are 'irreligious'.Secularism and religions will not go together.This is for certain.
That is the beauty.All enjoy freedom under 'Hinduism'as a way of life, unlike others.
'RAVANA'falls under the catogery of 'split personality' and no wonder,this split is felt alround,as is the case now with our societies,in all parts of the world.
Fine.All this is known.But please tell,whether democracy means free for all,so that we have multiple parties as one wants.If so,we will have as many parties as the population.Do you think,all this will lead to the growth of a healthy democracy,with rampant indiscipline every where?.
Friends,let us all be restrained and avoid use of foul language,quite unbecoming from educated people.This is only an appeal,calling for moderation.
Wish that all participants restrain from using the foul language,quite unbecoming of educated people.
Appreciated the suave post MR.gentle.
FRIEND,Better not to mix up religions with social and political issues.Marriage is a social issue.
Friend,We are all students and learning is an ongoing process.
MR.BUTLER,Why to post the same or similar content on different boards?Well it is also your style like several others.Any way,the points stand answered by me on the ist MB.
ACADEMICALLY,all these points have been duly answered by me on the first MB.Don't wish to duplicate them,ONCE AGAIN.
You are right, for, the people stand to be deceived at all times,by all parties,without exception.
This is compliance to 'law of dynamics' presumably,for none could afford to be 'static'as is the case, with all other events of history.
Friend.the common civil code laws,fall under the central purview,without which the states are bound to implement the existing laws.Let us hope,the centre would take note of the recent supreme court judgement,on such institutional laws,and initiate the requsite remedial measures.
This is the factual position as of now.
The suggested 'electoral college' comprises of only state representatives,whose number will be in double digits only,to elect the president.This means there is no bar on the number of contestants, for this high office,though it may not be on party lines.This is where the 'MANIPULATION'begins and it is easy too, with limited members.When this decision goes for ratification,this schism,percolates down again to end with panchayat representatives only,i.e,the two tyres only,which again stands to be 'manipulated',since it is not required his candidature need to be approved by the 'people' across the country directly.
Ofcourse the same 'manipulation' goes in other levels too.To avoid such a contingency,would it be better,that at all levels,i.e,"PANCHAYAT,DISTRICT,STATE AND COUNTRY"the heads are elected 'directly' by the people,along with other members to panchayats,WHOSE TENURES ARE FIXED FOR THE TERM,for governance.Similar could be the case for 'recall'too.
MR.RMaran,for your ready reference and others as well,the dictionary meanings are posted once again."Secular" means,pertaining to things not 'Spiritual or sacred',worldly,temporal:coming once ina century.
"SECULARISM" means,the 'elimination of the RELIGIOUS element from life.
Be assured that this is not my discovery friend.Now,Let all 'secular' people go and tell this truth to the people and see how they respond.
Please refer to its true meaning of 'SECULAR &SECULARISM'in the dictionary and satisfy yourself.Any other meaning is only a distortion,introduced.
If laws are not meant for enforcement,why to have laws at all?
NDA is not mine friend.
So is the case with the 'concept'of God.
You failed to answer the question,that shows you in poor light.Abuses are no substitutes for valid arguements.
The good and important issue raised by you,need to be discussed on its merits neatly,unlike the politicians,or else the very issue gets derailed.
Good governance means,not alone making of laws,but their enforcement as well earnestly.Or else,why to have laws at all? All can follow the rule of the jungle and be done with it.
DON'T you think,this suggested process will lead to 'Manipulative politics' at all levels eitherway,as is the case now?
The practical difficulties need to be surmounted.
Well,from your earlier post,it is to be understood,that the "electoral college" means only the representatives,who have been elected to represnt each state i.e,one from each state,by whatever name he/she is called(Governor or Administrator or chief minister),and rules out the representatives from both panchayat and district levels.This applies for both the election of the president and his recall as well,lest,the very 'concept'stands contradicted.Am I right?
Better we go in steps than in leaps,not to create/skip the grey areas,in the process of our understanding and the system as well.Trust you would also agree.
You said it that ISLAM is a tide.Mankind has seen 'several such tides from the same ocean'.The unfortunate part has been,that no lessons are learnt.
Please make it clear how all religions are fake, what are all they,and how can you say that prophet Mohammed was a fraud???
ISLAM as a religion,happens to be the youngest of all other religions, friend.Please let us know,in which century,ISLAM as a religion came into existance.
This has the potential,to cause devastating effects,the world over in course of time.
Let us have a look at them.
1) Are there ideological differences?...None.
2) Are they Jostling for power?...No power at
centre.
3) Are they political differences?..Democracy
permits it.
4) Are they Ego problems?....Possible.
When there are no problems,with regard to the first three,the last one,with mature leadership is not unsurmountable.If stll some one sticks to it,the best course left for a leader is to 'quit' the political scene honourably,instead of defecting to other parties.
This applies to all other political parties as well,whether they are in or out of power,in the cause of developing a "Healthy Democracy".
This is a possibility that cannot be ruled out,to prove that he had the full backing of the party,to silence his critics.
In which cases,it is back to square one.
The point in question relates to the already accepted 'constitution and the laws thereof' and their implementation first.The amendements and legislating freshh laws could come later.
Thanks for the response.Please correct me,if I am wrong,in analysing your valued suggestions.
The suggested democratic model,involves:.
i.The direct involvement of the people arises
only in three cases,i.e at "Panchayat level elections, at the time of recall and at the time of finally ratifying the sponsered or elected presidential candidate.
No eligibility qualifications have been suggested at this stage,or the process of recall.
2.From the above stage,the election process involves, only the elected representatives and not the people 'directly',meaning it would be an 'indirect election'.(may be similar to the American model)
3.The elected representatives cannot hold more than two terms at all levels.
4.The role of the finally elected representative at each level would be that of a governor/administrator for the "Panchayat,district and state levels and it would be a president at the central level" through a system of 'electoral colleges' at all levels.
5. The president elect,'Only then has to come before the people of the country,for ratification of his position'.
Now this thorws up the most interesting points,"What would happen to the elected president at the centre,if he fails to get the majority approval or ratification directly from the people"??? and what would be the "Recall process" of the elected representatives and the "The governors/Administrators" at the panchayat,the district and state levels,not to speak of the 'PRESIDENT'looks like???
The world has seen different models of governance
both in the past and present,in various countries.In light of these experiences,all know,that INDIA opted for a'Democratic model'.People evidently often complain that the developmental process is very tardy and the developmental benifits are not reaching the poor and downtrodden, resulting in frequent social upheavals etc.
Friends may deliberate and discuss on the topic for it may throw up a better or even a new
model.
This may be more pertinent for a country like INDIA with its large diversities.
Without it, no turn around is possible any where,be it a state,society or nation.
Presently none fights the election on ideologies.
The elections are fought mostly on caste,religious,language etc factors only.
As is the case with all religions and political
parties which branched off.It should not matter in all these cases whatever be the branch,the original concept remains the same.
Better leave the issue for Government of the day to deal with the situation,as they are answerable to parliament.
Friend,Kerala has been a progressive state,with its educated hard working people,even before the communists arrived there.The very fact, it is prospering also testifies about Keralites adoptations to new oppurtunities.Only wish their work culture spreads.
Friend,the topic relates to 'political alignments' in the ideological context.
Please read my post once again,which states that
'none is a holy cow'.It includes all without exception.
MR.BUTLER!None is above board and all are in the same boat.Now do you understand that nobody is a holy cow?
With no effect and finally he has to join congress.The truth, you forgot is,Waghela happened to be a staunch RSS activist.This is for your update friend.
This has been the tragic history of mankind.Yet no lessons are learnt.Unfortunate!
How come religious people (believers in God)vote for secular people who are 'IRRELIGIOUS and non-believers in GOD?'.
When the topic relates to politics,is it necessary,one should always convert it into a religious issue???
MR.BUTLER,Please see my post above to know the truth.The truth is communists(left)aligned with congress(I)during those emergency times,but not with Janata party.Trust this clarifies.
Now,please tell us whether you support the
'EMERGENCY'imposed???
All people know that there is a strong wave aganist RJD and Lalu,while it is also a fact still he vields considerable influence,though not to the same extent as it used to be.So just to prevent,anti RJD& ANTI LALU votes,going to the BJP-JD(U) alliance,the CPI(M) AND CPI split to join two different fronts,hoping to garner the anti RJD votes.
People can search for all the political'IDEOLOGIES' in way side dust bins!
Friend,this is to make clear,that there is nothing like,'secular'Hindu leaders,Muslim leaders,Christian leaders etc.The secular leader does not believe in all religious faiths,fundamentally.
Let us not forget the fact that we are all
natives/citizens, of this land and have a right to live in any state of our choice(exceptJ&K.).
So where is the problem,in what you say,unless they happened to be foreigners,illegally,residing in INDIA?
MR.Butler,this is to put the record straight.The Janata party was born,when all its constituents,have agreed to come together,submerging their individual entities,under the leadership guidance of late
Jayaprakash Narayan,opposing the imposition of emergency in the country by late IG.Forget not the fact that the communists(left) alone, supported the emergency of the times and joined hands with IG,while all others opposed.
Only When this JANATA party broke,because of some over ambitious leaders,the BJP & JANATA DAL of all hues have come into existance later.
VP singh has come into lime light,much later,only after he fell out with Late Rajiv Gandhi,due to 'BOFORS'affairs,in whose cabinet he had been a minister too.
The implementation of both Mandal commission report and the subsequent Ratha yatra
were the results of the political games only.
These were the facts of the history.
You may not be far from truth, that all HINDUS,CITIZENS/NATIVES OF HINDUSTAN, as it used to be called eaarlier,prsently known as in parts i.e
INDIA,PAKISTAN AND BANGLADESH, are destined to slavery,with their persistance to live with the divisions of all forms.
MR.Butler,is it your contention,that there happens to be a well stipulated 'annual quota'of scams permissable?What do we do with these lists?
It is fine.But the question is 'When would INDIA shine'???
Friend,the good part of the topic,is robbed,when it is introduced with a prejudice,with your very first statement.This is both unfortunate and unwarranted as well,as the issue relates to all.
Now,to understand better on the fundamentals, what does democracy mean to you?
Friend,the topic relates to political alignment,but not to communal riots.Let us not mix up or else the discussions would go tangential.
Let us prefer to discuss issues,but not people and their personal life styles.
You may be right,but the topic now here is different.
I also abhore to go by rumours friend.We argue with analytical approch based on facts,most of the times,on merits and demerits of each issue,objectively,but not with the strings of dogmas.Hope you would appreciate this line.
How do you relate the % to the performance of an MP,when 'Rahul Gandhi'has not been an MP earlier?
But he stated so,even before he is kicked out by the people.Accept this fact with grace.
The very fundamental principle that 'all are equal before the law' falls to the ground,if the laws of the land are not applied to all 'uniformly'.The laws of the land,are supreme and stands above all.If not the law has no meaning.
All know 'politics' is a funny game.All political parties have ideologies mostly opposing each other's.Yet 'oppurtunism' make them
strange bedmates.Let us see a few instances.
Both the congress and communists (left) have been antogonists from the begining and fight each other in WB,KERALA AND TRIPURA etc,even now, and yet the left, supports it at the centre.
VP SINGH was supported by both BJP & COMMUNISTS.
Congress supported the UF government having fought the very parties in the elections.
BJP lead NDA Govt INCLUDES OR was supported by several national and regional secular parties like,JD-U, DMK,AIDMK,TDP,NC,AGP,BSP Etc,who opposed them earlier.THE MOMENT THEY SUPPORTED it, they automatically became 'non-secular',in the eyes of others.
The moment they joined or supported the UPA Govt,automatically they became 'secular'.
Now Congress aligns with BJP in Kerala and opposes LJP-CPI front,besides BSP & BJP in Bihar,IN ALLIANCE WITH THE CPI-M & THE CURRUPT RJD.
So it is very much clear for all to see that in the end at all times,"it is the people that stand to be deceived,by all the parties."
If this type of deceipt is democracy 'God'save the people.
This is great news.Let us all welcome it.
DID I? I just wanted to drive home the point that,one need not go by the statements of political leaders,with which you have also agreed now,specially,when you are going with one sided views and onslaughts.The idea is to be objective and discuss on merits of each issue,but not the people.
The rest of your post needs no further comments.Thank you.
DID I? I just wanted to drive home thee point that,one need not go by the statements of political leaders,with which you have also agreed now,specially,when you are going with one sided views and onslaughts.The idea is to be objective and discuss on merits of each issue,but not the people.
The rest of your post needs no further comments.Thank you.
I doubt!
This did not answer my question friend.Please answer it first,Why sonia gandhi polled 10% less than her son,as informed by you?
Well said.We are Indians first and last where ever we are and no wonder.
Says the CPI(M) General secretary MR.Karat.You may like to comment.Does it protend for new alignments across the country?
He went to assert that if need be this act would be amended suitably.Only wish the offenders would be given stringent punishments.The administration should not be held captive to foul players.It would be enough if the information after decisions is given,but not all the details of the decision making process.
This should also put a bar on all those who make them(details) public, even before a final decision is made, for want of cheap popularity.
NO.But can you deny the fact, that Jinnah was secular and also a freedom fighter?
To share the power.None is holy or an exception to this.It is only a question of marriage alliances.
The ideology of any political party covers a wide spectrum,but not just to a word 'Secular'or otherwise.
Inorder to avoid further contraversies.This means
the election process set in motion need to be withdrawn.
The perception of the people appears so,and nothing wrong in that,for they nurish a feeling,it is all about 'RIGHTS WITOUT RESPONSIBILITIES' and a free for all affair.
Have the constitution makers,ever imagined even in their dreams of such a possibility,for the healthy growth of democracy?
Where are we heading? It is high time to think and initiate the measures in a right direction,to salvage the system.
Can you tell me,going by your own statements,why did Sonia Gandhi polled 10% less,than her own son in Amethi???
Let us not cling to trivals,when we discuss the issues.If it is your intention to take always 'an anti BJP' stand, or anti 'X Y Z',whatever be the issue,as any of the others,there will not be much to discuss,for the issues get clouded.
Did ideologies forbid coming together of different parties,for making a common cause,whatever it is?
Both these cases or a few others fall under the cases of 'rarity', as per my post itself.I generally gave the average % of national poll at 55% plus or minus,friend.
Was it not his last term as PM as the subsequent events have proved? Let us appreciate his honesty atleast,when he did tell the parliament it is going to be so.!The point under subject happened to be ABV and not BJP.
All are oppurtunists only,both in national and international arenas.Who joins whom and who drifts from whom, is all there for us to see.People stand as spectators only in this game cheering up one side or the other,for emotional satisfaction.
Friend,They happened to be just individuals that left the party in the first case,(where is he now anyway?) and in the second case he only remained and where is that party now?We call it a split when people in substantial numbers leave a party!
We all know the history and needs no repetition friends.
I too got perplexed and put the same question.But later understood,this being the first board,it gives an easy access and the other factor is most of the topics here are stale and old ones,people tend to vent out their expressions,not withstanding the topic and context.So please continue.
What philosophy? The facts remain the same what ever be the case.
DON'T we live in a democracy?The poll % goes up,only when there is a keen contest and even then rarely it crosses 55%.Please read the topic posted by me "PEOPLE'S MANDATE....." to understand the purport of the issues and to appreciate better.
No briefs for BJP.REST ASSURED.We are only discussing issues.Friend, please tell me,for arguement's sake,even if he contested an election and won it,'where is the guarantee that he alone could become the Prime minister?'.
We all know and he too knows,that anything can happen in a democracy which means defeat too.
Suppose,he did not contest then,the very critics would say,he ran away from the battle field,being the man at the helm of NDA.
Arguements could go eitherway.DON'you agree???
Parties,So far and anxiously waiting for BJP to follow suit.As it looks they may have to wait with bated breaths atleast till this year end with high stake bets.
You are right.The purpose of the post is served in highlighting this ridiculous aspect only.
The fallacy of the system is 'even if there is a single vote cast in f/o a candidate
(ofcourse his own assuming he is single) and the opponent fails to turn up to cast his vote(for whatever reasons)the former candidate will be declared elected with 100% of the votes polled.
The pundits may like to review this funny system and come up with suitable remidial propositions to make it more meaningful.
The seeds of communal poison were 'inherent' right from the day,when several and different 'communities' came into existance,all over the world, over ages.
People across the country should have accepted his call for debate and debated threadbare on the points.
'Truth is bitter for all, to swallow'.The facts remain that Jinnah,was a freedom fighter and also secular.
The country continues to be where it is in future as well.
Thanks for your concurrence that all parties are no exception to this.
This has since been answered by me down,else where and hence needs no repetition.
The disgrace if any, goes to the account of the people for their not performing their duty of voting,which is their right and voted him out.
Please go through the historical facts as against your own statement that'My point is till 1996 he(ABV) was nowhere'.
Friend,please go through your own post calmly,once again.
I only said he did his duty under odds.The rest are your inferences.Cannot help.
Friend you are contradicting yourself.
Decency forbids me to bring in the parallels.Anyway,we have the option to disagree.Thank you friend.
The fact that his word carries weight in the party affairs,tell a diffrent tale friend.My only request to all here is not to carry the prejudices beyond a point.
Hope the discussions relate to political affairs,but not personal affairs.His continuance in power despite his intention to retire reveals only the fact what 'duty' means under odds.
If he is power thirsty,nothing could have stopped him from becoming the 'oppositio leader' in parliament.
Sure,you would appreciate him,when you calmly consider,what made him 'to carry' with suffering both physically and the consequent indignities that would be heaped upon him,due to his plight,aware of the fact that he is being watched by millions of people the world over.He did it as a matter of duty.
Thank you.This is how democracy matures,may be slowly, but surely.
Not convincing.Let us ask the question Why ABV
continued as PM despite his disability?Was it for monetary gains or for any other self(personal) interests?Foreget not he has been a bachelor.All odds considered,he carried the burden reasonably well,more so with regard to foreign affairs,in the interests of the country in the prevailing situation.Now comming to his constituency,do we expect him as PM to nurse his constituency only, to perpetuate himself in power?Then won't the critics charge him that he was partial and ignored the welfare of all other people.Reverting back to the poll% of 38,in his constituency,it could be due to the opposition candidate's presence also,as the people there did not come in large numbers to vote for him.His own constituency,made sure ABV returned.
Don't have any illusions.All political parties and religions believe in their 'rebirths'.
We call it a splintered verdict.Fine.But do the parties have a mandate from people to go for the post poll alliances,and if so with whom to ally,in all such cases? The answer is a simple 'no'.But what can the people do,when their elected representatives start jumping from one end to the other,in formation of a government with alliances of all sorts, with manipulations?Do the people have the power to recall their representatives? AGAIN THE ANSWER IS A SIMPLE 'NO'.It only means people have to endure the pains or enjoy the pleasures!Yet we all live in a democracy.
Hope to receive your celebration sweets soon,on your joing the RSS.
The confusion arises because of lack of clarity.
Mostly it is seen that the 'political faith and religious faith'are mixed up totally in the discussions,leading to distortions both in outlook and approches.
'SECULARISM' has been another school of thought,which does not believe in the 'existance' of GOD, and all secularists are 'Atheists'(Nastiks)as such.This school of thought is nothing new,and coming down since ages.
The governance of a state is on a different footing and relates to the people (all school of thoughts included and nothing is excluded)and the nation at large.This naturally calls for catering to various sectional interests,in an unbiased manner,not withstanding one's own faiths or beliefs.It is known as 'impartiality',but not secularism.Trust this clarifies.
But,all of them are 'Hindus'too.(The natives of this land known once as 'Hindustan' and later rechristined as 'India).
Please do not forget the fact that dissents and disagreements in any nation or society,are a common feature and coexist,for the good.
Secularism and religion are the two opposite poles.If any 'secular party' TAKES UP THE CAUSE OF ONE RELIGION OR THE OTHER,it is not secular at all.Let the people understand this clearly,and not allow themselves to be deceived.
Friend,don't you think it is "INHUMAN'to mock at some one's disability?
Please check your own post originally under this topic.Check my posts in response to yours as well, at other places in this regard.Let there be no confusion any further. The disability,occured to ABV during his tenure as a PM and he has been treated,and made medically fit to discharge his functions,which he did.
In politics even a 'corpse' becomes the fodder to trigger the emotions of people.Unfortunately,all this started during the first PM'S tenure,way back in 1950s,when he allowed the 'pujas'inside it,and progressed with a snowballing effect.
This calls for the change of the 'MINDSET' of the people.There is the 'PSYCHE'of the nation,which should swing to the 'positive'side.
let us wish to dawn and prevail.
Unfortunate.
Friend,honestly,tell me which party does not practice the 'double standards'?
Mr.Butler,Thanks for your agreement with the topic.
MR.thomaspodimala,RSS says it welcomes all indians into its fold.Not sure, whether they have any membership formats as is the case with others.
True.
A case of application of 'differential standards'
unfortunately.
Having committed a fauxpass,either you stand confused or trying to confuse others.The issue relates to 'political leaders'retirements.There should not be any exceptions.It matters little whether they or in Govt or in parties.
Sure all would agree if the political leaders too to retire at an agreed age say 75 to 80,without exceptions uniformly.Let the political leaders decide first among themselves.
Jyoti Basu almost continued as CM till he approched his 90 and now he crossed 90.The topic relates to political leaders and SURJIT is no exception as he held the top position in CPI(M)AND STEPPED DOWN ONLY RECENTLY TOO.
I also agree all political leaders without exception should retire at an agreed age say
75 to 80 years and not beyond.
Mr.BUTLER,it is a known fact that JYOTI BASU continued as CM,till almost 90 years, and that he crossed 90 years now.Your post relates to 'retirement of political leaders' and surjit also falls under this catogery and is no exception.
I have drawn only an anology in my comparisons.I fully agree that all leaders should retire at a given age,say between 75 to 80.They can then join a 'THINK TANK' club to guide the nation in an unbiased manner.
Going by the version of Jyoti Basu CPI(M) leader,regarding the revealations made by a former US Ambassador,Indira gandhi's congress received the US funds,to curb communism.Let all people pause and ponder over things, as to what has been happening to our largest democracy,since independence, and why our leaders are failing the people and nation,and what people should do to remidy the situation???
You mean to say that BJP as of now is not a 'National party'?People doubt whether BJP has its own ideology or theory.
The veteran CPI(M) leader Jyoti Basu said,taking it from the memoirs book-part-2,of the former US Ambassodor to india M'HAN.Ofcourse congress would explain it at length and the opposition demands an investigation.
This news coming on the heals of,USSR funding both the congress and communists (undivided between 1950 to till it stands divided)that includes the present CPI(M) and all others,reveals a sorry state of affairs of the largest democracy in the world.
People however wonder now,whether the outside support extended to UPA GOVT,by the leftists,is indeed intended to curb congress,and if so who is funding it?
We call it a population explosion,when all in society produce children in multiples of more than two or three.But the population MULTIPLIES in GP.Add to this the lowering mortality rate with advanced strides in medical technology.It is these essential factors which any sensible government need to rekon with and formulate the policies accordingly in all fields,be it education,welfare, medicare or employment etc.
And are to be found in all most all parties,be it, they are national or regional,if not as active workers,but as sympathisers.This has been so because,when RSS has come into existance in 1925,we had only the 'congress party'in the forefront of the freedom strugle,with most of the indians as its participants with all the patriotic fervour.Ofcourse,it has been a matter of history,when the congress split later into 'communists,muslim league,socialists,nationalists,regionalists,linguists etc'in course of time,and all claim to be the patriots.
This should not be taken lightly,as a mere law and order problem of the states.This ideology is different from the spontaneous emotional disturbances and ordinary crimes.
It is a pleasure to share.Thanks.
The reluctance of the Kashmir pundits to go back to their homes in J&K,as the militant activities still go on,is the chief cause and concern of all governments.Their flight is only a symptom of the illhealth of that state.Priorities are first.
What prevented?
Let them do it now.Better late than never.But friend,it has been disappointing,when you have not participated in discussions posted on the first MB,one relating to 'Thought and thinker' and the other 'science deals with cause & effect..spirituality deals with cause & causer'.Hope to have the benifit of your views.
This is a friendly advice,not to post the same message within a difference of two minutes,as seen below.
None can fool the people all the time and get away with that.This is for certain.If any one thinks that one can,well,we all know in which 'paradise'one lives in.
Friend,If the issue is religious fundamentalism,why to mix up'politics and economics'with it?
Wonder,why to post the 'same message with two IDs',in a minutes difference specially,the other one being just above this in the name of'voice_india(varanasi)!!!
True.But the fact that the development has not reached to the bottom levels is mainly attributable to bad governance.Population explosion is always be a factor,to be recockned with,while formulating the developmental plans and implementing them truthfully.
'SPIRIT' leads while body 'AGES'.This is true for leaders like Jyoti Basu,Surjit etc, who are in their 90s,till the otherday who have been occupying the positions,and still active in politics.
Friend,all of us have limited understandings only,but yet trying to understand further and getting educated mutually.
When we have different forms of identity,it is possible to have likewise,different formless identities too,like 'thought,time,space and eather etc'besides God.For the time being let us keep aside,whether God is in all or all are in God aspect.
Here the the 'thinker'is the causer and 'thought'is the cause and the 'effect'is 'action or inaction' culminating in a chain 'action and reaction process.
As stated earlier 'thought flows (emerges) from the thinker'for,without the thinker a thought has no independent existance as such and both are inseperable.
Forget not the fact that man has always been instrumental for all scientific and technological advances/developments,'in all centuries'.Harnesing of the resourses is the responsibility of the people themselves,and that incldes,the installation of 'good governance'institutions too.
Is it your contention that ours is the only civilization first of its kind ever evolved?
The point in question is how can a thought emerge without the thinker,whoever it is?When a thought emerges,it evolves further or may decipate also.In other words a thought is born out of a thinker,which assumes an identity,different from the thinker.As such one can only relate the thought to the thinker or the thinker to the thought, and are inseperable at best,but one canoot say that they are one and the 'same'.
We have enough infighting going on in the country
unfortunately,forgetting the interests of the people and nation,which should be the paramount concern of all.
Can we call it progress without population?Population is also an asset when put to use properly.
His appeal was dismissed.
Before he demits office as President of BJPin December 2005.This would enable him to occupy the high moral ground and enhance his stature.
Let us hear hear from our other friend too,what they have to say on this topic.
When you say that 'God is the source of the thought'his existance comes first and his thinking and thoughts come later?
If they were facts,what stops banning that blessed organization for ever, friend?Let us not forget the fact that congress ruled the country for several years after independence.
Sure these aspects might have been discussed at several foras,including this board.It is waste of time.
What you say is applicable for us as a consequence of chain reactions one leading to the other.But the question relating it to the religious concepts,"Without the Thinker", meaning the creator or God or supreme force or call it by any name,how could the thoughts emmanate?
Interestingly,this news item and the book brought out two important aspects.1)The currpution,mostly relates to the period of 1950 to 1970,where it saysthe election expenses of congress and communist politicians were subsidised.This period chiefly relates to the first PM of INDIA.2)MR.Draja of the present CPI reacts saying they were the 'same old allegations'which means there is nothing new.The question is were they discussed in parliameent and in Media then?
EVEN ASSUMING IT TO BE TRUE,what is strange about it,since such instances are common and do take place around the world,at all times,for self interests.
You said that 'religion says the thought comes first'.But how could a 'thought' comes first with out a 'Thinker'? What does science say about it?
Let a law be enacted first,that only the parties qualified to be labelled as 'national parties' alone, should contest for 'LOKSABHA' elections.This would strengthen the Government at the centre,for the chances or more for the majority party to initiate the policies as promissed and implement them,without dependence on others or where it has to,it would be minimal.
This should not be a problem,when the elections to both the states and parliament have been delinked by amending the law,on the basis that the issues in both the cases are different for elections.
PRIORITY.In our federal system while security concerns of the nation both external and internal remains with the centre,the law and order maintainance falls under the state purview.
Certain issues treated as merely a law and order problem,could be a cause for concern for internal security as well,as is happening now in some parts of the country.Despite the co-ordinated efforts between the centre and states,there is every possibility,for the situation slowly going out of control,because of dilution in approches of the centre and states.This calls for a clear line of demarcation and for central interventions in time.If the laws are found wanting,the same should be addressed without delay.
PEOPLE often tell 'I thought so, or I think so'during the course of their communications with each other.Does both mean the same or are they different?What does science and religions say on this???
Yet another 'fiction' of yours? Sounds interesting.
A nice rebuttal putting the prejudices in place.
The 'BABRI' episode(case),is a classic example of the system failure of ' Judicial,Legislature,Parliament and Executive' since our Independence,as the case has been allowed to linger,from preindependent time,till now.Quite unfortunate.
Advani never said that the PM is not 'sensible'.
Probably,he wants him to be both 'sensible & srong".
Compromise formula evolving,in the near future,hopefully.
Indicates the direction,with both sides holding on to their 'RIGHTS'.
As far as BJP's resurrection is concerned.It is not a question who heads the party,but of restoring both discipline and inner democracy,for its healthy growth.The essential requisite in this direction is to seperate its 'political identity, from its cultural identity'.It is needless to emphasise,that all other political parties also belong to the same culture of the sub-continent.Let there be no mix up.
What is 'Neo buddhism"???
As you rightly said,with so many versions floating around, people may remain in dark to the precise cause and who set the train on fire.But people wonder,why this dispute, from the preindependent times,should hang still in the corridors of judicial courts till date,without the final disposal!!!
This is why, both the natural sciences and spiritual sciences pursue studies in the respective fields to find the truth.They appear to be independent,but in reality both are interdependent,for "without causer,there is no cause and without cause there is no effect".
Dear,the objective all political parties is 'power',which they say is only a tool to implement their ideology 'to serve the people and nation'.
ALL know politics make strange bed fellows at all times to serve the self interests of both the leaders and parties,at all times,keeping aside their proclaimed 'ideologies'.People remain as mere spectators.
All Political parties and politicians, with their survival instincts, continue to be in the ring,despite disagreements and divisions.If one goes the other comes.
The fact remains that the 'GOD CONCEPT'was not negated.He remained silent.
About 17 inches of down pour estimated in the next two days.It is to be watched.
This statement after talks in NY, comes as a solace for both sides,for the same has not been derailed,or side tracked.
No problem friend.We are all students till the end.Let us continue.
Both,spirituality and science use one's own mind as the exploring instrument.The fact is, most of the scientists are religious.
Buddha means "Awakened one";A person who has acheived the enlightenment that leads to one's release from the cycle of existance(samsara) and there by attained complete liberation(moksha or nirvana).This applies to all.
As we all know Siddhardha a 'shakya'prince born in 563 BCE,who could later attain this state has come to be known as 'Historical Buddha',but not the only buddha.
We have two kinds of buddhas as distinguished.1) 'PRATYEKA BUDDHA'who is completely enlightened,but does not expound the teaching(silent)and the 2)'samyak sambuddha'who expounds for the welfare of all beings,the teaching that he has discovered anew.The historical buddha falls in the second catogery.
Since 'Buddhism' stresses on enlightenment and liberation form samsara(bondage),it is implied that it went through the gambit of whole process of their causes and effects too.As the endless debate around the existance of God,distracts one from the 'MEDITATION'the emphasis has not been laid on it,since individual 'liberation' leads to it only.
MR.BUTLER,please go through the book yourself, to understand my question,basically.
Now your ignorance is quite understandable.Let us not assume we are the masters of all or could master the knowledge.
Is this what all you could say on an interesting topic?A pity indeed.It only shows how vast is the 'knowledge' and what little we know.Anyway thanks.
Please let us know to which "BUDDHA AND HIS PREACHINGS" you refered earlier.
In the creation,it is generally observed,that each one is a 'Prey'to some one or the other.May be the nature has its own pattern of laws,to cater for all eventualities.But friend,why to strech too far and strain unnecessarily?
MR.Butler,I happened to mention else where,in my reply to one of your posts,that they are recokned as religions from the westrener's view,and remains so presently.
What appears on the surface need not be true and the causes in all such cases are political,if only you could give a cool thought.
Friend,people by nature tend to misuse every oppurtunity provided to them,more often than not.
The reasons are not far to seek.They just pursue their 'self interests'.Take any field and satisfy yourself,whether this is true or not.
To suppliment your statement here is a small quote from Rigveda."EKAM SAT VIPRA,BAHUDA VADANTI" meaning "TRUTH" is one:Many or its names.
It should not matter for any truly religious one with piety for he draws no distinction.You know well,that true leaders and their followers are distinct from one another.Needs no further amplification,I suppose.
A good question that has been haunting all the great thinkers of both scientific and spiritual fields,since ages.Their pooled thoughts may ultimately provide the key.
Thank you for your proximity towards convergence.
BTW.
If elimination is a solution,why not eliminate the mankind itself,which is always self-centered,on several other considerations with which it has been afflicted.Let us be practical,for religion is just one facet of the mankind.
Friend,even God haters are not one and follow different schools of thought.The universe(s) are as much divergent and because of the divergences only,they look beautiful.Void of them,all look alike and well,the consequenses of which could be appreciated by one like you.They would be chaotic and catastrophic as well for the humanity in particular.
Appreciated,the conclusion in particular.Hope the same prevails.
MR.Butler,even then where is the guarantee that the humanity would be void of conflicts.Conflicts arise basically because of self interests of people,not necessarily due to religions.All religions preach universal love and surrender to GOD and be pious, to lead a peaceful life.But people like to have their own choices of life patterns.
In both the cases 'Solutions' wre given and could be given,but unfortunately,both are responsible for the destruction.The knife has two edges and it depends on how we use it.This was the same case with several civilizations which have risen and fallen.The present one is no different either.
The oriental religions as the westreners call them,be it"Hinduism,Taoism,Buddhism,(ZEN also realtes)jainism,Sikhism etc" could only be classified as 'phylosophies'with spiritual content.Anyway they are treated as such,and we have to live with it.
I donot know the present conditions in China in this regard,But I know people there had religious attachments to 'TAOISM' and later to 'BUDDHISM'.Ofcourse,Confucius was a contemporary of Taoism times,and a great thinker too relating to the 'social order'.
The fact China has not demolished any of its 'heritage' centers,and entertains Panchenlama of Tibet,gives the impression that they retain their moorings.
This is to make clear that,in the first place,
"HINDUISM"could not be classifed as a religion, in the sense the others are.it would be more appropriate to say "HINDUS(PRESENT INDIANSTHE NATIVES OF THE LAND,)HAVE SEVERAL RELIGIONS".
Just like ISLAM and CHRITIANITY,the enlightened thought of HINDU SAINTS also tells that 'BRAHMAN/PARAMATMAN' is formless.This could only be experienced.This has neen the same faith.
They also gave the freedom to people who cannot normally perceive the formless state,to worship God in any form they like for God is every where and in all.
The conflict between religions arise,out of ignorance of the practioners and not because of the concepts.If a student fails in an exam,the fault lies with him,but not with the subject.
No science could explain the concepts of 'sweet and sour',and yet both are experienced.
When we speak of a destructive weapon to a child he would not comprehend it except as a fairy tale,for he never saw it,but the fact is, it is very much there.Similarily,how many of us in general and the scientists in particular have seen or could understand fully, the 'unitary magnetic field of all universes, or for that matter the dark matter as are perceived to be in existance.
My only submission is, let the "THINKERS" whether they belong to scientific community or spiritual community pursue in their own ways to unravel the "TRUTH",with mutual appreciation,than condemnation.
Dear MR.Butler,First let us be clear that practices could differ with faith(s)over a period of time due to differing interpretations or distortions which might have crept into the faith(s).Since the present day situation recognises "hinduism,buddhism,jainism,sikhism etc" also as religions,besides those people in Africa worshipping the nature as a super or supreme force,the same are considered as such.Your reference to Chinese,as void of any religion,is far from truth.You might have considered it to be so,because it had been a communist state.But you would be surprised to note that in most of the communist states past and present,people have not given up their religious beliefs totally,while conforming to the political situation.Most of the confusion arises out of practices and mixup of various other issues,like political,social and economic orders,with the faiths,than because of the faiths themselves.
All this when one considers and adds up,would naturally end up with the similar conclusion if not the same.Hope your apprehensions are cleared mostly,if not all.
SO,Both these faiths do not qualify to be called as religions,and similar could be the case of a few others like sikhism.Extending your logic a little further,since science does not believe any thing till they see,all other religions too,who subscribe to the faith that GOD is form less,would also not qualify to be called as religions,irrespective of their faiths,in accordance with the scientific laws.
This means the total humanity remains harmonious,and homogenius,void of contraversies and conflicts.
This could be an 'IDEAL'situation and welcome feature.But we all know that an ideal is as formless as god and difficult to reach.This should not mean we should give up our ascent to the peak of truth.
But for the rational thinkers,the mankind would not have progressed this far, either spiritually or scientifically.When one thinks of the unthinkable only the reality unfolds.One may call it a revelation,an experience or a discovery or a realisation.If not,why to think at all of an unthinkable one?
Then even the best of sciences cannot offer any remidial medicine for the phobias in either case.
Both the concepts of material plane and spiritual plane were covered under the subject of phylosophy earlier and complimentary to each other.Hence we find quite an amount of overlapping,when these have been divided into various subjects under,'spiritual sciences and natural sciences'in the later periods.
Sure you would agree with me as I said earlier,else where,that science is experimentation oriented and spirituality(religions included)is logic oriented and that they are both independent and interdependent.
Aptly put it.Nice.
Please read my first sentense once again.Both the science and religion start with a 'Hypothesis'without which there could be any experimentation or logical deductions to arrive at a conclusion.Both relate to the 'quest'OF KNOWLEDGE and are mutually interdependent and also independent in their pursuits.Nobody ever said that science is bad. Both religion and science are the means to explore what precisely exists and controls.There should not be much of a confusion in this,simply because one comes accross several other things in the process,either to discord or accept.
OR TRUTH,And call it by different names.The peak is same and the approches are different.
Disagreements apart,pleased to go through a decent interations.Thanks to you both.
A fair enough offer for a good debate and mutual learning.Hope it materialises.
From where did you get that GALILEO was the pioneer of"Earth was round theory" AND THAT HE WAS MURDERED by the church fundamentalists?Who said that the religion would produce miracles?Religion is only an acknowledgement of our obligation to a supernatural force termed as GOD.
It is seen that both the 'religion and science'have their hypothesis to start with,the former bases on logic and the later with experimentation.What appears to one as good and rational may appear to the other as bad and irrational,due to their perceptional variations.Hence the majority and minority classifications,in this regard are irrelevant and meaningless.
The faith is diffrent from people.
Does this mean that a very great majority of the people,who probably run into more than 95%,all over the world,pertaining to different reigious faiths are fools.
As we know it is all a game of political conveniences,irrespective of the costs and consequences.We have inumerable instances,where such dismissals took place under article 356,not that all are justifiable.
It is a pleasure to know that you happened to have an indepth knowledge of all religious scriptures,pray educate us about the "COMMON FEATURES" of all religions,to begin with.
You mean no 'Cocktail' and one at a time,turning it to 'Religious'topic now?It is fine then.How about the other religions?How many religions are in vogue in your view and what are they?What do their scriptures say with regard to killings?
We have constitutional provisions for the dismissals of governments both at centre and states.
To deliberate how best to strenghthen the party.
This would be followed up with jubiliant celebrations ofcourse.
Same is the case with all political parties in a democracy.Democracy does not mean "FREE FOR ALL".
The country has a constitution and so are parties.One has to function within those parameters with self discipline.
Any political party at national level is inclusive of all segments of people and not exclusive for one.
If one were to follow this as a dictum,several PMs and CMs should have been dismissed since independence,and would have to be dismissed even in future.Such flare ups are quite unfortunate and need to be condemned by all,and remidial measures to avoid the recurrences should be put in place,specially by educating the people at all levels.
"TERROR" as such has no phisical form and is only an emotional disturbance.
For inter actions in discussions.A cocktail of ploitics and religion leads where,all know.
DID HE SAY that no disciplinary action should be taken aganist MLKhurana?He only said one more chance should have been given.(This means presumably, that the extension of time sought,by him should have been granted).Where is the U-Turn in this?
True.But Katrina changed course was also known.There are monitoring systems installed to predict Tsunamis installed else where.But the nations of Indian ocean did not feel it necessary to instal one till they were struck.The ophelia case is to be watched.I only stated in all such cases,the impending disaster could reasonably be predictable.The two points,you mentioned are integral with DMP and MMM as stated already.
The foreign attacks on HINDUSTAN (INDIA) as early as 500 to 400 BCE have been the result of its rulers/people(HINDUS)adopting Buddhism,which preached 'non-violence'as a way of life.This was the begining of the enslavement of the people subsequently,by the foreigners of all hues,till they gained independence in 1947.It is for the people to develop a 'national mindset' or not.
And to fall in line with the majority opinion true to discipline.This concept alone strenghthens the system.
The greatest disaster is to have a 'Dishonest society' and no equipment could salvage it,except its people.
The only natural disaster that could not be precisely predictable so far happens to be an "EARTH QUAKE".Even then the sesimic zones have been identified.In the rest of the cases,the predictions or projections,have been reasonably good enough.Under the circumstances,nothing prevents to evolve the "DISASTER MANAGEMENT PLANS (DMP)" and get equipped with the three essential resources,viz:"MEN,MATERIALS AND MONEY(MMM)" to effectively salvage and to face the eventuality.
In a 'democracy'whether one enjoys the confidence of the majority or not,need to be decided at the appropriate forums,be it a 'legislature/parliament/All india party meets',
but not by a few that that makes noises at all points of time.
The question was only inquisitive,for we have been taught,that all the preachings of 'BUDDHA'asks for 'renunciation' of the desires,which are the root cause of one's own miseries,besides the universal love for all.We cannot call this as middle path.This ofcourse was reformist at that point of time,viewed in the context of certain abhorable 'Ritual proceedures' practiced by some,not necessarily by 'BRAHMINS' but several others with their blind beliefs,and not all.The similar practices do exist even today in several parts of the country and world at large,in some form or the other.Sure you would also agree.
If they do not like the set up,the honourable course for them is to resign and come out of parliament,as a protest.
The fact the parliamentary affairs presently run with the existing set up,involving all parties makes it clear.
This has been a settled issue and evidently,all like it to be that way only.
This arrangement found favour with all parties in the UPA Government,all parties extending their outside support to it, and the opposition parties as well.So what is the problem?
The first one is that indiscipline would not be tolerated,even if it relates to senior leaders.The second one is that the leaders even if they are tall and mighty, should not rush to the media to make statements concerning the internal affairs of the party.Looks both the points are driven home loud and clear.
Better RSS keeps of from the ongoings in BJP.It would be good for both.
Secularism and religion are the two opposite poles.As for your childhood experiences,it could have been the same for most people around the world.Children are divine.Have no apprehensions.
Home is the ground to learn the culture.
The topic here relates to Bihar and not to PAK or happenings there.
What was that 'middle path'precisely?
None follows blindly.One follows the dictates of one's mind only in believing some thing or not.
How about those fanatics who have no faith in any religion killing so many innocent people in the name of their professed faiths?
Too sweeping a remark,which even the US OR UK and others,fighting the terror,have not used.
How come this 'Caste system' has become unique to, and alive in INDIA over thousands of years,while several changes have taken place in other socities else where?
The whole 'MANKIND'is divided on some line or the other and none accepts any sane advice from the other.
'SECULARISM' means,the 'elimination of the religious element from life',but not equality of all religions.This is just for information and clarity.
There is nothing like a 'Muslim religion' in the world.This is only to set the record straight.
First,let us appreciate the fact that 'Women are on the march'towards advancement.Comparisons can follow later,after evaluating performances.
Both opted for the best 'Choices'available to them.
Thanks for bringing out the facts,that the words
1)HINDU relates to Citizen ship or nativity.2)HINDUISM is a way of life and 3)SANATANA DHRMA is a compendium of enlightened noble thoughts,over a long perid of time,resulting in the formulations of guidelines for the mankind to live wit peace and prosperity.4)That none of the above three could be classified as a "RELIGION" in comparison to others.Let us hope all others too, would benifit from the surmise brought forth.
What you say is generally applicable to all systems of governance,for, all including the people are responsible bor both good and bad in the set up.To reform or not lies in our hands.
Let us not overlook the fact that the left and some more parties too are making a common cause with them.
Do we call one visiting any or all places of religious worship as 'Secular'?
The guilt is to be established first.Punishment follows next.Till such time one is considered to be innocent.This is what all say,ofcourse depending on what suits them.
Supreme court may ultimately feel it incumbant to consider, to evolve a system to determine 'Who all have lied' during the proceedings,after both the prosecution and defense rested their arguements before it pronounce its judjements in all cases.This entails installation of the necessary 'LIE DETECTORS'in its premises itself,to verify the veracities of all during their earlier depositions and arguements,by a panel,in each case.This could be extended to other courts later.
All know 'nothing'remains in the end.We ahve experiences only in between both pleasant and unpleasant.
The point in question relates to 'GOVERNANCE AND
ADMINISTRATION' only.This covers all fields,without exception.
It is well known that INDIA has been a home for several religions,in which ISLAM is one.The problem is not with the religions,but the followers for 'other considerations'.
No fears. The opposition always exists.The form may differ.
Pride preceeds the fall in all cases.
What does the word 'self-exiled rulers' mean? Why should you salute RSS,which is a different 'cultural' organisation, when it tries to remove the BJP president,which is a 'political'party and what right has it to do that?What is the comparision between Late JINNAH and ADVANI?Would it be wrong to take the disciplinary action,aganist the rebelling/erring leaders,however mighty and great they are?If it fails to control its cadres,how could it claim to be a different political party?
Sure we have a Govt,to deal with all such trouble makers.Don't we?
Let the Governments both in state and centre act to put all those behind bars,if they are guilty.People would appreciate it.
Unfortunately,this very human nature is reflected all over the world leading to conflicts.
It is good you said that "HINDU" refers only to a nativity(say citizenship),but not a religion.Similar is the case with "HINDUISM" when you stated it to be a "MOSAIC" of all religious practices and philosophies of people inhabiting this country.SO "HINDUISM" is not a religion,but a house that shelters different shades of life.
Before we proceed further,please tell us,whether,the "SANATANA DHARMA" which you mentioned is a religion?
It is good you are a scholar who read all the scriptures of all the religions.The universe(s) are large enough,to ensure the co-existance of divergences that includes opinions.
Mostly,one blames all others for the misfortunes or mishaps one encounters in life.This is what we call 'passing on the buck'.One rarely reflects to find how far he/she is responsible for those events to correct the course.Still very few among them reform themselves first and try to reform others next.
The prayer itself reveals,that such an idealistic place does not exist any where in this world.Yet with hope one wants to find one.Let us all await for that day.
It is good to note that this is a thought provoking message in that one should be very clear as to 1)Who is a HINDU? 2) What is Hinduism? 3) What is the caste system and how it is related to the above two?Can you please throw light on the above,to appreciate it better?
please educate us with the amplification,whether
'Hindu' is a religion?
Pray tell us all what the word 'Hindu' means?
Sounds as though you went through the gutter to see what lies beyond.What is it?
True.There is no majority representation of indians on this site as is the case else where too.Any comments?
This ignorant question of yours stands answered above, by me, out of purely an academic interest,to set the record straight.Trust it clears the mist and you would rest this repeated question for good.
First let INDIA be instaled as a super power.The maintainance can follow later.First things first.
Will ofcourse dominate undoubtedly much to the chargin of the people.
And so are others too,with their prepoll and post poll alliances.
It is seen that the 'Insurgents' failed to negotiate when there were people's governments in position earlier.It is clear they do not want to negotiate with any one.
The topic relates to INDO-PAK relations,but not our inter party relations etc.Would it not be better,we stop diversions?
Do we have 'GREEN,RED,ORANGE,WHITE,YELLOW,BLUE OR A COLOR COMBINATION FASCISTS'besides the saffron,in INDIA? It is quite interesting.
After all it is your opinion.The men or women in the armed forces are INDIANS first.None goes for recruitment with tagged labels of a religion,sect,party or an organization etc,or do
they get one after recruitment.Let us not make fun of those valiant people.
ISLAM is the yougest religion,while it is widely debated whether HINDUISM is a religion or a way of life.
Deplorable.
All religions say the same.What is new about yours?
Four steps invariably need to precede such a step,in all such cases,irrespective of the affiliations,namely,1)Identify.2)investigate.3)Try them in a court of law.4)Sentensement.
All this shows,how tolerant we the humans are!!!
It is good,atlast he found the 'TRUTH' to taste.
Accepting God is one,why to have several religions?
The armed forces have their own set of recruitment policiy.The forces are deployed by them,but not by the religions and castes or other organizations themselves directly.
The magnitude of the disaster in all such cases will be decided by the nature alone and the rest are mere formalities AND POSTMORTEMS.
Humans tend to shed this fundamental,which is at the core of 'Humanism'in their selfish pursuits,resulting in discords.This is the fact of life.
This report relates to MP text books.Strange!Since when the children have become the voters in INDIA? How could the mention of a flower,hut,cycle,plough etc in text books violate the election code?If so most of the symbols of political parties are to be cancelled,going by this standard.One should not forget,that one picks up these symbols from books only or make one in combination for use,may be by political partiesor even otherwise.Sure the matters are being streched too far obviously.
Achieve the near perfection.This calls for constant reviews of the system,for no system could be stagnant.
These relations would be at all times be conditioned by political considerations,between nations.
Wonder,whether,IRAQ is in GODHRA!!!
Your suggestion,to appoint a committee,in all such cases,may go a long way to solve the unemployment problem,for it is seen, all tend to lie in courts,and rarely speak the truth.
It is possible,that the "Justice" is a prisoner of the laws,when it could not be uniform.
It matters little.whether one is equiped or not.
Better to leave the past behind us and start living in the present to build a bright future.
People should be thankful,for they are able to discuss the report atlast.There are several reports of various commissions,which have been placed safely in the dark rooms.
Means what?
Terror is an "INTERNAL FEAR" in its highly magnified form,posessed by oneand all.We all know how to win over it,but not sure when it could be???
The law makers in particular and the society/nation in general could ignore it only at their peril.
Opinions could not be classified as "Findings".
Probably all the needles in the lot look alike,making it difficult to pick and fix.
There should be a seller first.Buying follows next.
MENTION OF THE SAME or the inferences thereof, BE OFFENSIVE? Strange!
So it is said.It is very much there for all to see.
Better late than never.
Away from the remote control systems of X,Y,Z.As long as they function at the behest of some one,they have no moral right to accuse others of functioning under an extra constitutional authority.The people are watchful.
The RSS should clearly affirm and state whether it is a cultural or political organisation.If it is a cultural one, it should stop dabbling in politics.Similarily,BJP should state whether it is independent of RSS and would function as such.
Looks like all this has got some thing to do with Shankaracharya landing in jail.Better it is fully substantiated to enlighten the readers.
There are several outdated topics here.Onee more should not matter.
Ours is the largest democracy.Let us learn to respect the verdict of the people.
The fact is, the integration is absolute,total,complete and irrevocable in the annals of the law.Only politics are played over it.
The country for the good of the people.Isolated steps will serve no purpose.
And the matter is under its purview now.People may have to wait for the final verdict.
If so,there is basically something wrong with the nation,undoubtedly.
YET TO FIND ONE THAT FOUND IT.
To find out the one that pleases and suits.
May be ghosts work.Thank god,they allowed this to pass.
True.But how about the other political parties and their leaders?Are we the people,not to be blamed for the present plight equally,if not more?
It is upto the people alone to set right the things.
There lies the beauty.
Sentesement would follow.
Seems it is contended with the way the things are turning out.
The infights in all parties will cause set backs.But only the resilient ones would overcome them and move forward.
To the merriment of all.
No one desires to ride a dead horse for the obvious reasons.
And the king is the 'constitutional head'.This means he too is vested with the powers.
Leaving the people to remain where they are.
Be it any 'isms or tvas'.That is the beauty.
In other states.This sudden reversal of its earlier deciaion speaks volumes.It is both unfair and unbecomming.
Due to varying perceptions and opposing interests.
The King happened to be the constitutional head(Read president of India in our case) and the democratic governments function at his pleasure,like in India too.When democracy fails and leads to a sort of anarchy,the constitutional heads have to intervene invariably to bring in the order and restore democracy again.As such the expressed apprehension appears to be misplaced.
PEOPLE are looking forward for that good day.
FOR THIS TO HAPPEN.
It is a tragic tale,that the court failed to serve the charge sheets to the accused on the day
they were summoned earlier,to receive them,for the simple reason,that the copies of the same were not made ready.
It would be poor solace,for the damage has already been done.
Welcome back to India.Do not be amazed to realise the same situation exists in all the states here,after living here,for another 20 years.
AND censors even the meaningful posts.
To make it sweeter and long standing.This applies to all parties as well.If notThey are only hollow words and acts.
This is what the people are being taught daily.Sure the ministers hail from the people.
COULD BE A FORERUNNER for the things to come and quite interesting too.People are at a loss to understand,how come the 'charge sheets' could not be served on them,when specially,they were summoned to receive them?The excuse given is comical!
It is to be watched whom they send to the portals of power.
The question is what comes out of it?
Is the question yet to be answered even by the constitutional experts?
The cousin of BADVANI probably!
Where will they land?
All issues are subordinated to it.
It is strange that all condmn the caste system in words and practice it in deeds.
This could be a signal to the king of Nepal as to what should be done.
IRAN,as on date is not armed with NUKES.So the question of its disarming does not arise.
If the recent statements of RICE at Paris are any indication.Well the out come of the talks is any body's guess.
Birth has nothing to do with the process of thinking and reacting by one or the other.One's attitudes rarely have expiry dates in life.
And the people have to bear with it.
Our constitution has not stipulated any educatuional qualifications for contesting or voting in elections or even 'Law making' for that matter.
The issue is academic and not restrictive in nature.
This shows that they are not ignoring each other
and also made for each other.
'ACTIONS & REACTIONS' are integral.What matters is the direction to reach the desired goals!
Stiil bogged down with the caste syndrome living in 21st century? Then no wonder, it remained intact,
since the times of MANU while all other models could not last even for a century.
A nice pointer for the absurd theatre of the future.
None disputes this statement of fact.Itis also a fact that the trial is yet to begin in this case.
Going by the statements of Jyotibasu and BARDAN.
Let them not forget that LALU is still a force
to reckon with in GOVERNMENT OF INDIA,unless they intend to leave the shores.
Does this mean that for all times to come the old
order only stays? After all things do change for good or bad.
He may try to emulate the tricks of our leaders.
Sure it has confered the powers on him to govern too.
This itself is a fruit that leads one into future.
Jumping 'frogs' at all times.Opputunism unlimited.
No exceptions.
People ponder and wonder to understand this riddle.
NO fears.It will stick together after the polls.
All changes are to be welcomed.
Today Jyotibasu pressed the alarm bell.Tough times ahead.
All are possible in a democracy.
All are supposed to be innocent till the guilt is established.So says the law.May be it is worth while to amend the law to say that 'none should hold any public office' till one's innocence is established.
The trial is yet to start.It is premature to jump
to conclusions.
Perceptions do vary,the object being the same.
A wrong credit entry please.It should be a solace for BJP.
Court trials are running concurrently and independently away from the various commissions,in this connection.In all probability another commission could be appointed to go through these various reports afte their submission, to arrive at the truth.
The process is under way in some states,while it is over in Haryana yesterday itself.
Negates even a ray of light.This is what is known as adoption to the environment.
HYPOTHETICALLY,it could be the other way round too.
When peole stop fooling themselves.The time span
rests with the people.
The question is,whether they are being dealt with uniformly?
The fact is, none is a criminal by birth and any
one could become a criminal or a saint at any point of time.
It is evident this has a momentum.
Well said! All have become legiimate these days.
Better not to add to the growth of 'unemployment'.
Why to discord the setup,since it is an accepted profession?
It is good the rest of the world is free of problems,going by hat has been stated.FUNNY!
iT seems, it is more important than development.
Sure.God helps those who help themselves.One wonders whether the secularists do believe in GOD!
It is good politics has no terminal.
Provided they abide by the laws.
Finally it is upto the people to dump them in the dust bins,since our systems are vey protracted and time consuming,before the justice is rendered.
This is no reason for not making them accountable.
The cabinet headed by a PM OR CM is collectively
responsible and accountable to the parliament or
legislature.In case of failure the requisite safe gaurds have been provided,to come into play,automatically.
For ensuring the much wanted political stability
in the country,as it is often said,that they are two sides of the same coin.
The possibility remains that the communists alone
could form the government with no support,at some point of time in the near future.
Does this mean that such thing is impossible with other systms?
The UPA came into existance only after the LOKSABHA polls.It has a long way to go to grow.
Better,it starts with fixing the qualifications needed,for all the'LAW MAKERS' who get regularily elected by the people.
A welcome feature.let it be sustained and improved
further.
As you said,'this drama' is yet to unfold.Even the
introduction of the characters is still in the initial stages.The climax has to be reached.The cost benifit analysis could only be made at the end.
ALL are for sale if one cares to read with undestanding.
What could be a better issue than this that leads to power?
Why only in bihar? It may do good for the whole country too.
Any stick suits in politics to beat the opponent
with.While these criminal acts are to be abhored,the question who would be the benificiary
with these acts need to be probed, to establish
te truth.Till then it is politics all the way.
It sounds as though you are an old gaurd of this
board,to get frustated.Take it easy and proceed all the way with smiles.
ONLY one issue but not a plethora of issues,need to be mentioned as called for.Enough if we say in one word'POLITICS OR GOVERNANCE'.Hope you would also concur.
To sum up,should it be said,bad governance alround?If so the discussion couldcenter round,how to improve it?
DOES THIS MEAN THAT WHATEVER THE POLITICIANS SAY OR DO,AQUIRE MORE LEGITIMACY WHATEVER BE THE LAW?
A fair statement and a far cry in the wilderness.
People are wondering not able to find the right answer as yet!!!
People are people only.The affinities may matter.The advice is to organise one which is not vindictive to uplift the people and move forward in the right direction.
The fact is people do read into it.But the context and content varies.
What do you propose to discharge our responsibility in making those people accountable,specially when they get away easily,
as you yourself has mentioned?
Please read it in the context of what the SC has said about,while granting the bail to jAYENDRA-SARASWATI.Misuse of power and the provisions of the laws by any one entails a price to be paid.
One should begin to dismantle the stinking set up
entrenched.Goal is to build a new satisfactory edfice.What is the use of cursing all the time all others except one self for one's own sufferings?
A nice joke.Appreciated.
Better the PM drops him.
If it is the order of the day,it simply does not
baffle any one.!!!
It is a world of opposites and often they happen to be the two sides of the same coin and one cannot appreciate the other.This is the reality.
The facts speak otherwise.
When the governance takes a back seat,lawlessness
holds the steering.
One should baffle if only, they happen to be stray incidents.
sure they are political but not communal.
Every one here is busy with one's self resurrection,and does not have any time to be wasted on others.
It is to ensure power to share,after these elections,for, all the parties involved say,this will not alter the existig set up at the center.
As it appears.
It is good to learn that, now we have an unified force on the track,with diverse agendas.
How about unspiritually bankcrupt 'Hindutva' leaders?
All are coincidences only and their interpretations too.
Nothing is final anyway.
A trial by media is different from a trial in the
courts.
Nothing is static.
Every thing has a price tag one needs to pay.Justice is no exception.
Not in the near future since the whole system goes
in circles.
Organise the people to help.This is only the sure way to get to your goal.
MOVIES
Amitabh is big enough to congratulate SRK for his performance in his own style!!!
If they do,they are called as imitators,but not artists worth the name!!!
Friends, wish you all a happy new year.
And to share his experiences for the good of the people.
That would satisfy mostly the 'supressed desires'
of the audience,ofcourse at a cost.
To make an appeal with long lasting impression.Or else the name sake remakes would fall on the wayside.
These affairs have been as old as the mankind.
SPORTS
A consistent performance is expected from all the players in the team.An ocassional failure is understandable,but not althrough!!!
Friends, wish you and your families a very happy and prosperous new year.
Glad all had their say!All is well that ends well.
In future.Wonder where we are all heading!!!!
Friend,the language they understand is different.
True friend!
Friend,politicians understand only votes and money.
Wonder,why there is such a furore being kicked from specially WB fans and political leaders,when we have instances of several players being dropped from or included in the team,in the past!
It is amazing that Somanath babu also permits a discussion on this in parliament,as if there are no other burning issues in the country!!!
Though it is possible he may fail occationally.But it is no good to take shelter and offer exsuses for the burden of responsibility entrusted to him.
This needs a high level of adoptation to the arising situations.
Leaving aside several and all other likely attributes,which each player is expected posess,the team lacks a spirit to win,that calls for dedication.
All are dispensable for good.It should always be the team that matters.
BUSINESS
It is sad to note that all my responses have once again disappeared.Looks like there is an embargo in place!!!
Very happy to exchange views with all of you which are more educative in several aspects.Thanks to you all.
Wishing you all and your families all the best at all times!!!
MR.RAJAYE,Your querry has been duly answered above.
However,this is to make clear that the religious precepts fixes the tenets with universal love as their core.
The above is different from the practioners,based on their understandings,that vary,which are the cause of frictions.Out of these frictions,hatred arises.Out of hatred the discrimination flows!!!
Dear friend,I repeat once again that the "precepts are different from practices".
I meant the former,while you meant about the later.Both of us are speaking about the same friend!!!
Friend,is it not a change in itself???
MR.Nariman,the content has been well understood.I only put it in a sutle manner,in support.!!!
MR.Nariman,I strongly believe,what the LORD said was in a different context,which has been distorted over the times.If he said so as we mean it today,he cannot be called as a LORD OR BY WHATEVER NAME PEOPLE MAY LIKE TO CALL HIM.
BTW friend!!!
MR.Nariman,at the outset,this is to inform that presently,I do not have the Manusmriti on hand.Yet I trust what you posted is true,and deplorable!!!
Firstly,unless we understand, since when this caste system has come into vougue and why,this remains as a ???.We may have to read this content in a given context and times.Please do not mistake that I am supportive of such an inhuman system,but would like to seperate the husk from the rice and analyse it,before conclusions are drawn.
Secondly, since when did Manusmriti(code) came into existance,and whether it was a social order or religious order???The former relates to the type of regime and the later to a faith.
Thirdly,we cannot compare to its times with that of our present day standards,for we have all such severe punishments, even today in some countries still existing.
When some one among our friends have put this MANUSMRITI'S origin around 2nd B.C.E,I was surprised,because those were the times of BUDDHISM at its height.
Friend can you place it rightly,for a meaningful and purposeful dialogue on such a vast subject!!!
MR.gautam,in time,changes are invitable.Better we do not lag behind and change for good!!!
MR.Nariman,this means the religion has no discriminations but it is the people who has it!!!
radhikarajen,thank your stars,at least now your post has appeared.My appeared posts yesterday have disappeared fully!!!
MR.betterlife,it is one's choice.In nature all things change!!!
Why should he friend???
Quite true.All can change their religion.The reasos are immeterial.Let us all wish them the best!!!
MR.Nariman,you are right and have the right too!!!
You are right friend!!!
It is a good parable radhikarajen!!!
This tussle may not augur well for them.It is another case of causing the further divisions in the society for political gains!!!
MR.RAJAYE,"hatred is not one of the tenets of BUDDHISM"!!!
Friend,a relevant point!!!
radhikarajen,our friend MR.Nariman also means the same in a negative manner,not that he is unaware of!!!
MR.RAJAYE,It is a routine matter with all litigations!!!
MR.RAJAYE,it is good.It is their choice and they may turn a new leaf in their lives!!!
Friends,the topic relates to which branch of BUDDHISM these people and Late BR Ambedkar were converted/adopted,but not the resultant effects on them after converting.
Hope you would offer your comments on this aspect.BTW!!!
Members may please provide the details with regard to the conversions now,and MR.Late BR.Ambedkar.This may help us, to understand BUDDHISM in an objective manner!!!!
MR.Nariman,All have their own choices to choose their own faiths..No need to send any signals!!!
MR.betterlife,the trouble is one mostly,mixes up,one's social and economic orders, and links it to a religious order out of fear,without understanding what it precisely means!!!
One wants at all times, one's expectations should be fullfilled, and one does not accept the reality, when disappointments peep in!!!
One passes on the buck to someone else for one's own failures!!!
MR.Nariman,religion is only a path,on which all can walk.It does not prohibhit any one.
It is a different matter,that the walker's
strides may be different owing to several other factors!!!How can we blame a path for this???
MR.rebel,all enlightened and cultured people tell the same.But what he did not mention was the fact that "these contradictions exist basically in every human being" in all situations,for the simple reason the "mind is dynamic"!!!
MR.RAJAYE,As we all know,the "prejudical discriminations in any form are bad"!!!
Friend,while discriminations are a a part of the life and mostly factual,the prejudices go with one's own "psyche" which is reflected in ine's own behavioural pattern!!!
No law could change this psyche as it is a disorder!!!
WELL said friend.But when people are being swayed with emotions,caused by wants and their nonfullfillment,the get frustated and agitated.
As we agreed earlier,only a good governance could minimise these turbulences!!!
radhikarajen,you are right.Human wants vary,with the demanding situation.It is always a chase after illusions,with none ever satisfying them!!!
MR.betterlife,people have their own likes and dislikes and choose their way of life.This has been the basic principle embodied in "HINDUTVA"!!!
A good parable radhikarajen!!!
MR.RAJAYE,The question is,why they did not do it,about 2600 years ago itself our of the 3000 years you mentioned???
Why to wait for so long???
MR.Salemsrini,we have now only "politicised religions" a combination of politics and religion,in our secular democracy!!!
radhikarajen,hope that the larger bench,which would be looking into the whole gambit of reservations,would also come out with the clarifications,"whether the 'DALITS' are of a seperate and distinct caste,away from the the caste system,which has been recognised as integral of HINDU religion ONLY"!!!
It is good.We have to see how long is the bench!!!
MR.Nariman,now that the whole issue of caste based reservations has been refered to a larger constitutional bench,it is to be seen,whether the three religions refered by you, which do not have "the caste system and do not recognise the same" would be one of the points to be examined by it!!!!
MR.RAJAYE,let it be sorted out between them,which is of no concern to the public!!!
MR.RAJAYE,this is a choice of one and as we know,HINDUTVA as a way of life accepts IT!!!
My heart felt thanks to NDTV for having allowed this stement to appear on the MB!!!
MR.betterlife,fact is a fact,just like a crime is a crime.This is the most unfortunate part!!!
MR.Nariman,following your own logic,he has no business to tell that Mulayam's government was "unconstitutional" for the matter is subjudice!!!
Surprised,none of my responses to you,not offensive in nature and only pertains to a point,were censored as it looks like.
Yet we are all champions of freedom of expression.May God bless all!!!
MR.Nariman,surprised none of my posts/responses,not offensive in nature, have appeared.Is this the freedom of experession we are talking about here!!!
MR.RAJAYE,YOU ARE WRONG ON BOTH THE COUNTS!!!
The unfortunate part is we have become PAKISTAN centric,in conducting our affairs.India may wish it or not,there are others who wish it.None is indespensable friend!!!
MR.Nariman,this is contradictory to you have said so far.
If this is the logic,then the governor has no business to term it as "unconstitutional" since the matter is subjudice!!!
AAH,again a case of comparisons.
Now it is a question of who is a good,better and best sycophant!!!!
Well put it radhikarajen!!!
It appears that it is a "clash of egos",and not a "clash of constitutional stipulations",which happens to be crystal clear,as to the functions of the respective institutions!!!
MR.Iamtrue,the SC has made it very clear that the legislature has the powers to make any law,and enforce it,as long as it does not effect the basic structure of the constitution.
Wonder why this confrontationist positions are taken,when the constitution has clearly spelt out the functions of each of its own creation!!!
MR.Nariman,on the same logic of yours,the GOVERNOR has no business to term it as "unconstitutional" since the matter is sujudice friend!!!
MR.Nariman,did this amendment carry a "retrospective"clause,and if so from when???
MR.RAJAYE,I am not inhuman as not to understand the feelings or emotions because of this abhorable crime.
I wonly said,that it is not possible for one to take the law into one's hands and behead the offender,in our democratic set up.
If you have any other better practical solution, for awarding any other type of punishment,you are free to place it before the members here friend!!!
MR.Nariman,this amendment is quite a welcome step in the right direction,having become a law now.
But friend,I am not very sure,when it exempts the "expelled members" from its purview, which becomes discriminatory in nature,will hold good!!!
Welcome back friend.Hope all is fine.we have all been concerned about your absence for so long.God bless you!!!
MR.RAJAYE,this is only a ruse.The causes lie else where to dethrone him!!!
MR.babupriya,most us here have oir kids and emotions as well.What you suggested will not happen in a civilized society,where the laws rule.
This does not mean,that I support the henious crime.Meting out instant deaths to the offenders are possible,with the militants/terrorists/extremists.revengeful ones,but not otherwise.
The consequences for such acts are also well known friend!!!
-"CONSTITUTIONAL INSTITUTIONS"VIZ:-Legislature,executive and judiciary!!!
We all know that the first two are quite steeped in it.Now a survey report for 2006 alone ,says,that Rs.2630;bribes paid to 'lower judiciary'alone(read the hindu dated 26th.page fifteen)
God bless our country and the people!!!
MR.Nariman,we are speaking about a "governor and his duties".This has nothing to do with individual installations!!!
The simple question is "how could an unconstitutional government be allowed to continue for so many years" by the present incumbant governor,after he took over the office???
Please do not try to defend the indefencible!!!!
MR.Nariman,it is not a question of whether I see it or you see it(facts).It should have been seen by the governor basically and impartially.The fact that the SP government was installed with the active support of congress and others,amply speaks about the fact that the governor was satisfied prima facie!!!
ThE MAJORITY SUPPORT has been proved by Mulayam singh on the floor of the house.
Now coming to the defections and counter defections,the law itself is not very clear,about and when it is to be treated as "defection or a split"!!!
Any law could be interpreted both ways.When we say a "glass is half empty,it automatically means it is half full or vice versa"
Any way it was quite unbecoming for the governor to say so,and not correct for the centre to allow it to continue,if MULAYAM'S GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN CONSIDERED AS "UNCONSTITUTIONAL" and both are duty bound and need to have acted impartially on the merits of the case in the begining itself.This act was very much intentional,considering what the governor has said now!!!
Let us also not forget the fact that even after disqualification of some members by the SC .MR.MULAYAM has proved his majority of support not once but twice!!!
WHAT IS IT ABOUT... AND IN WHICH DIRECTION...WHAT IS THE LIKELY SOLUTION IS THE PERPLEXING ???
We hear, after evry round of discussion,"we had a cordial idscussion and agreed to meet again" has been the standard statement!!!
What it means none knows AND WE LOST PRECIOUS SIX DECADES talking about it.How many more is anybody's guess???
Typical mind of a criminal lawyer at work to spread confusion inorder to save the real criminal,friend!!!
Friend,in a way it is a rejoicing news,as we are fast approching the 100% reserevations!!!
Tell it to our leftists and secularists too and ask them to set their houses in order first,before talking of others!!!
WHO IS AFRAID OF THEM FRIEND???
You are sounding as though they have taken over Pakistan???
what are you man???
MR.RAJAYE,Nothing could be salvaged unless and untill wake up to the realities and help to bring in a good governance!!!
No difference absolutely as far as the offence is concerned!!!
LAW IS THE SAME FOR ALL.IS IT NOT???
And what is going to be the punishment.As per law for such a grave lapse,nothing short of a dismissal straight!!!
it is a probability,yes,radhikarajen,which cannot be overlooked!!!
Thank you MR.NARIMAN!!!But what is wanted is no double standards,while speaking about political and religious BANDH calls.Hope you would also fully agree!!!
MR.Nariman,the international community did recognise that "it was Pakistan,who was the agressor,in 1948,1965 and 1971 aganist INDIA".
The whole world knows,that ISRAEL was created after second world war,to house the jews,who were scattered around the globe,who were also the "original inhabitants of JERUSALEM AND SURROUNDING AREAS'.
Though it was recognised as an independent country by both UN and several other countries,It was ARAB countries,which did not recognise it and in fact wanted to destroy it,for the the reasons of historical rivalary!!!
It is a case of "SELF DEFENCE"for Israel a do or die situation,since its inception and a question of survival,being constantly threatened by the ARAB countries,which goes on and on!!!
As for American entry into IRAQ,it had the sanction of UN,after several rounds of discussions and resolutions in UN!!!
Trust this clarifies fully!!!
MR.Nariman,are you representing him here???
If true,blame the IC for its passive role!!!
What moral support and for what reasons,when pak based terrorists have been causing the blasts in all parts of our country.
The whole world is alive to terrorism friend and so worry not!!!
MR.Nariman,do not fpr get the fact that congress was a partner in the alliance wit Mulayam for a long time and helped him to continue in the saddle.
A crime is a crime who ever committs it and should be punished for this grave deriliction of the duty.Why do you soft on this issue friend!!!
radhikarajen.well said.we live always with expectations,only to be dismayed at the end!!!
A very valid point friend.As we all know,what is given by the right hand the left hand of the same person takes back.This applies to economy as well.It is only a matter of appearance!!!
TO "NORTHREN AREAS" and disputes that they were not part of J&K,even prior to independence.(read THE HINDU of today in this context)
We lost the very first oppurtunity in 1948,itself,for a military solution in J&K,BY AGREEING TO A CEASE FIRE,while our forces were driving out these invaders.
We lost the same repeatedly in both the wars waged,both in 1965 and 1971,because of 'TASHKENT AND SIMLA'agreenebts with PAK.
It is too late now even to think of it,atleast as of now!!!
Friends,thank you all for the convergence of your views on "BANDH CALLS".
But it astonishes one, when a political leader of some repute,supports 'political calls' for Bandhs,under freedom of expression and opposes the "Religious calls" for the same!!!
Beautiful standards in public life.
Which functioned at his pleasure,while delivering his address,to a newly constituted assembly.
Would it not amount to "deriliction" of his duties as a governor,for having allowed an unconstitutional government to function???
The centre too had a responsibility in this sordid affair,and woes an explanation to the people,for its failure to uphold its constitutional obligations!!!
MR.Nariman,one wonders whether we have any governance in the country!!!
MR.Nariman,strange this comes from an educated man like you,who might be knowing for sure the"INTERNATIONAL LAWS & PROTOCOLS"!!!
you are right radhikarajen!!!
MR.babupriya,sure people will take note of this and see through the game of politicians!!!
MR.Iamtrue,the UPA government might be following the "MONARCHIAL SYSTEM"!!!
MR.Nariman,worry not friend.Even with out it,I responded this evening in detail,in a 'chronological order of the historical events,which is yet to appear on the MB!!!
MR.Nariman,gone through your post with the 'quote' of SWAMI Vivekananda at page 264 0f vol.3 of the eight books set.
This needs to be read with what he said, prior to, and after this relevant para,where in he ridiculed the 'Russian' author's comments about CHRIST & Jagnnath temple!!!
What he said regarding the temple is to be understood in the historical context,friend!!!
1.GAUTAM BUDDHA relates to a period of 5th - 6th century BCE.
2.There are no proofs that BUDDHISM was prevelent in INDIA or else where,or we had large monasteries,till king "ASHOKA" arrived on the
scene.
3.King ASHOKA relates to a period of 2nd-3rd century BCE.
4.It was he,after the KALINGA war has took upon himself to propagate "BUDDHISM" in and outside the country.The building of monasteries was one of them probably!!!
5.The JAGANNATH temple could have been built as a monastery during his time or even prior to him or later.We should have to check this aspect with archeological department,for the "construction design" vastly differes from other BUDDHISTIC structures like "SARANATH OR BODH GAYA" or for that matter other monnasteries in Northern HIMALAYS or else where!!!
BUt for arguements sake,even if we accept it,we do not find any such BUDDHIST shore constructions any where in INDIA.It looks like mostly BUDDHISTS prefred to be in mountain caves as we see largely,for the reasons better known to them.
6.Even accepting it to be true,all such monuments were always under the the state,irrespective of the type of governance.
7.This situation could have continued till at best,ADI-SHANKARA of advaita philosophy dawned on the scene in 7th - 8th century A.D.
8. The great revival of orthodox or reformist "HINDUISM" showed up once again,coinciding with the second round of foreign invasions.
9.Friend we do not have any historical proofs starting from this essentially crucial period,that Hindus have destroyed other's places of worship.DO we???
10.At best SWAMI VIVEKANANDA,could have advanced this arguement only to prove to the audience, how the Russian author was off the "mark and erraneous" in his conclusions.
Any way,our government could place before the people any archeological evidence it has in this regard!!!
The issue has been only arranged in a logical order.The rest I leave it to members.My guess is as good as yours.
Sorry for taking much of your time with such a lengthy post!!!
MR.RAJAYE,I only refered to a fact and nothing else friend!!!
If I remember right, there has been a SC verdict too,banning all types of "BANDHS" in the country!!!
Earlier, I also happened to pose a question on this aspect "whether a government could give a call for BANDHS"and also enforce them,what ever be the reason???
Having set up wrong precedents,can we lament if some one else follows suit!!!
At least the centre should wake up even at this late hour and arrest this drift,which effects,normal public life and economy of the country,besides loss of both public and ptivate properties!!!
DEAR FRIEND MR.RAJAYE,very much appreciated,for initiating a topic,which is quite educative in nature,for a nice debate.
Mostly all main religions believe in and speak of an "impersonal supreme being',which is formless,infinite,omnipresent and omnipotent,be it "BRAHMAN,GOD,LORD OR ALLAH ETC".
We come across personal gods too, in some "cultures" which are worshipped in an idol form which varies VIZ:-
1.HINDU
2.EGYPTIAN
3.ARABIC(PRIOR TO ISLAM)
4.GREEK
5.AZTEK etc,while the following religions do not accept personal gods or idols VIZ:-
A) CHRISTIANITY
B) ISLAM.
C)TAOISM/CONFUCIANISM OF CHINA.
IN JUDAISM & ZORASTRIANISM WE HAVE FIRE WORSHIPPERS.WHILE,
BUDDHISM REMAINS SILENT on the concept of GOD,WHILE,JAINISM NEGATES IT TOTALLY!!!
Rest we could follow if other friends are interested too!!!
radhikaraje,while what you say is very much desirable and the need of the hour.
But the politicians will not allow it to happen and do any thing to keep the society divided at all costs,to safe gaurd their vested interests.
Change has to come about.This has to come through reformation if possible or else it would come through revolution.It is only a matter of time friend!!!
MR.RAJAYE,WE HAVE SEPERATE DRINKING WELLS ALSO!!!
MR.Nariman,May I recall your memory to my post in the past"WHICH FORM OF GOVERNANCE SUITS US BETTER"!!!
MR.Nariman,if we closely look at "all isms",these are all,essentially relate to "existentialism" on the material plane only!!!
Friend no "ism" ever satisfied the humanity at any point of time with all the experimentations.
The reason mainly being the "human nature",which aspects to a great extent have been dealt in GITA,on a "PSYCHOLOGICAL" plane vividly!!!
( please do not brand me as a communalist for mentionig this,which in my opinion happened to an analytical compendium of this nature,its causes and effects)
As we know "HUMANISM" is an ideal friend!!!
MR.Nariman,I am aware of it and deplore it too, as I said in my responses to you and MR.rebel as well, above.
Friend "SIKHISM" has been founded, to create a synthesis of the religious teachings of both "HINDUISM & ISLAM" by GURU NANAK!!!
This is what I said above friend.It is really deplorable and disgusting too.
It looks like as if, we carry this system into heaven and hell or for that matter to every nook and corner of the universe(s)
Friend, an acceptable professional order introduced at some point of time,was allowed to degenerate into an evil social order,over the period, and is still being perpetuated for political reasons.
All speak aganist it,while in reality all perpetuating it(system)
The present tussle between "SC/ST" in A.P,finally to be dealt with by the centre is a case before our own eyes friend!!!
It has also caught up with christianity and Islam too!!!
Friend,if all religions are going to adopt it,then don't you think, there should have been some merit, when it was introduced originally!!!
MR.Nariman,things do happen.Thanks for your convergence on the point that"we should not fight on behalf of the avaricious politicians,for we do not derive any thing out of it",which has been my emphasis too, all the while.
We can discuss the issues in an impersonal way,with no attributes!!!
Absolutely nothing personal.Let us forget it friend!!!
MR.Nariman,your post comprises of two books one from SV and another from a Russian author.
Can you furnish the title of the english version of the Russian author and his name too for responding to you in a cogent manner!!!
True!!!
BRIDGE!!!
radhikarajen,you are right.This was how humanity has become,divided,degenerated and decayed with no lessons learnt!!!
MR.RAJAYE,in the last two days, I wanted to show you, that the game is not a onesided affair and need to be played in a decent manner with the spirit of understanding.Nothing personal and no offences meant.
It is not necessary always to agree or disagree on several points.But what is needed is an unbiased approch and an objective manner.
We, as educated people could make our points without acrimony and name calling,whenever there is a disagreement.We can avoid impulsiveness,irrespective of our affinities.
Yes we will go forward always.With best wishes to you and all other friends.BTW!!!
It is good the reality has dawned on you at long last.Better late than never!!!
Others (read secularists) alone could set the boundaries for this "freedom of expression",be it a caste,creed,race,laws or religion | |
