New Delhi:
Home Minister P Chidambaram spoke to NDTV's Barkha Dutt hours before the Foreign Secretaries of India and Pakistan meet formally for talks. Here's the transcript of his comments.
NDTV: One of the more interesting things that you've always maintained is that every time a bomb doesn't go off, every time a terrorist doesn't succeed, it is partially because things have changed in our security system but partially because of luck. How vulnerable are we today?
Chidambaram: We are as vulnerable as any other country. No more, no less. Only yesterday, the director of FBI listed the two or three attacks or near attacks that happened in the US in the last six months. We are as vulnerable as any other country. No more, no less.
NDTV: You have seen the same images that all of us have. The latest being the encounter that took place in the Kashmir Valley. We actually had a young soldier, in his twenties, being captured, taken captive and then killed, along with two other soldiers. The Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir said, that there was something different about this encounter, that it suggested that the enemy that you are dealing with today, is equipped in a different, more sophisticated way that we are dealing with perhaps even Taliban, Al-Qaeda like tactics, of taking soldiers hostage.
Chidambaram: This enemy is no different from the Taliban or the Al Qaeda. In fact, the LET, the HUJI, this is HUJI, they work with the Al Qaeda, and I'll tell you something more. We thought the encounter had come to an end last night, earlier today they were going to clear the debris and recover the bodies, one militant from under the debris rose and shot again. He was hiding under the debris. He injured a jawan, but he was immediately neutralized. We are still looking for two more bodies, we think, but they could still be alive under the debris. So these are very determined, hardened guys, who can stay under a debris for over twelve hours and still rise and shoot. So, we are against a very determined adversary. Therefore, we must summon the same degree of determination and courage and resoluteness, to face the adversary.
NDTV: Then I must ask you this we've seen what happened in Pune. We saw your ministry drawing a connection - a possible connection at least with David Headley who is the architect of 26/11. The Home Secretary did say that and we see this unfolding in the Kashmir valley. All of this happening on the eve of talks between the Foreign Secretary's of India and Pakistan. And there is a bewilderment among many people who cannot understand how a government that maintains that there hasn't been enough action taken by Pakistan on the issue of terror and has all this while not engaged with it has suddenly decide to turn tack. Why is that?
Chidambaram: I am glad you're beginning a debate here. It should happen actually in Parliament. For some reason, it's not happening. We'll explain in Parliament. We have not gone back on our position that Pakistan must take action against those who are behind the 26/11 attack. Nor have we diluted our stand that Pakistan must dismantle the terrorist infrastructure. And I think tomorrow you will find the Foreign Secretary put forth these points firmly and clearly. But how long can you say, this is my stand. I stand here and I won't move at all. How does it help the situation? We can't change neighbours. We can try to change our neighbour's attitude and approach but we may not be successful even in that but we have to talk. We have not suspended commerce, we have not suspended travel between the two countries, we have not suspended sporting contact between the two countries. We have not pulled out of SAARC. Therefore, at some point we will have to talk. But nothing may come out of the talks. But at least we have made the effort to talk to them and bring into focus issues that remain outstanding, worked which need to be addressed with a sense of urgency. So I don't think there is any contradiction between the position that we took immediately after 26/11 and the willingness to talk about talks to explore that whether we can talk on some of the issues that divide us and some of the issues that concern us.
NDTV: These talks could have been only about terrorists. You could have had a terrorism only focus. Yet there has been a carte blanche given to Islamabad to bring up whatever issue it wants to. If these are only talks about talks, then why did India not push for a terrorism only focus?
Chidambaram: We are going to the table without a preset agenda.
NDTV: Why?
Chidambaram: Because we are talking about an agenda. So when we go to the table, we will take to the table issues that concern us. It's quite possible Pakistan will bring to the table issues that Pakistan thinks are important to it, but that doesn't mean that we will engage in substantive talk on every issue. The Foreign Secretary's are likely to meet for about a couple of hours. And then a statement will be made thereafter in Parliament.
But as I said, we will bring to the table as the top issues terrorism, pending issues of 26/11, the need to arrest a number of people. I've just got the dossier ready. The need to give us access to those suspects or accused, and then whatever Pakistan brings you can't stop a country from bringing to the table just as they can't stop us from bringing to the table what we think is important, but we're not going to enter into substantive talks on those issues. As I said, as the External Affairs minister said, these are talks about talks.
NDTV: Let me ask you one last question on Pakistan. Is there anything that has emerged from Islamabad that has made your government more optimistic?
Chidambaram: Well, optimism is a state of mind.
NDTV: What's your state of mind?
Chidambaram: Not very optimistic, but I still think you should give those who are more optimistic a chance to talk.
NDTV: To shift focus to an internal enemy, talking about optimism, we have this subtle humorous almost courtship unfolding between a Maoist leader Kishenji and yourself. Now that...
Chidamabarm: I thought you were the intermediary.
NDTV: I'm willing to be that if you offer me that role but more seriously the Maoists according to the Prime Minister and your government yourself, are the biggest internal security threat. You now have the Maoists making an offer and yet we've gone into this surreal space where you're offering your fax number, he's offering his mobile number. Are you already on text with each other?
Chidambaram: No. You see what I said yesterday was not a new offer or a response to an offer. I said this in an interview to Tehelka almost four months ago and I've said at other media events, other press conferences. All that I ask him to say or ask CPI Maoists to say it before us. We will abjure violence. If he says that, if the CPI Maoist says these four words, we will abjure violence. I said give me 72 hours. Let me talk to the Prime Minister, let me talk to Nitish babu, let me talk to the other 7 Chief Ministers who are affected by Naxal states. And I'll come back with a response, and my response will be prompt, positive and will show the way forward. But they must say that we will abjure violence and there should be no violent incident until I come back with a response.
NDTV: So nothing in Kishenji's statement that makes you optimistic so far?
Chidambaram: No. Three hours after the statement, they did attack a patrol party and 3 of them were killed when the joint patrol party retaliated. Three hours after the statement was made, one of the joint patrol parties was attacked in Bengal.
NDTV: Well I think it's safe to say you probably have one of the toughest jobs in this country and I know lot of people appreciate the changes that you've brought into it. I think it is now time to honour....