This Article is From Jun 11, 2009

BJP can't be yesterday's party: Jaswant

New Delhi:

In an exclusive interview to Barkha Dutt (Group Editor, English News, NDTV), BJP leader Jaswant Singh has said that few extremist elements have dented the party's image. Jaswant Singh criticised several decisions taken by the BJP leadership at a closed-door meeting of the party.

Here's the full transcript of the interview:

Barkha Dutt: As a veteran of politics, you've had some time now to look at the elections. When you step back and look at your party what do you think the big message is to your party?

Jaswant Singh: Principally that we have to recognise that this is second election we have lost...there are aspects of this election that stand out...in 2004, we lost when everybody said we were winning...that came as a shock as the margin of our loss was smaller...about seven separated the first from the second...this time we were expecting good results and they didn't come...that is a second and bigger shock...but we are still 2nd largest party in Parliament...we have still got 116 MPs...and then there are huge gaps in the patterns of the seat representations we've got...and some of the states in the union where we expected to do better...did not live up to the expectations...so these present problems present themselves square to whoever wishes to objectively view the problem.

Barkha Dutt: Suggestions have been made that there are some even within the BJP themselves...that there's an ideological confusion within the BJP...especially when it comes to Hindutva...that there is a failure to be seen as modern party...do you accept that there has been ideological confusion?

Jaswant Singh: I don't know whether the word is confusion...but there is a need for ideological distillation of thought...the BJP has to be a current party...it can't be a party of yesterday...Hindutva...I think there is lack of clarity on what the word itself today means...I might share with you in the teachings of the late Pundit Deendayal Upadhya...the word Hindutva doesn't feature anywhere...so its emergence in the lexic of current Indian politics is of a later vintage...we had to reflect what we are trying to address ourselves to...and that again comes back to the situation that a party must be current, that it addresses today, therefore tomorrow...and doesn't continue to be living in yesterday.

Barkha Dutt: Do you think that was the problem...that many people perceived the BJP to be living in yesterday?

Jaswant Singh: I don't know whether people perceived...but we didn't succeed effectively in conveying what were trying to convey...and of course that has to be a failure in the conveying of the message of what we stand for...which results in diminished electoral support.

Barkha Dutt: There has also been an argument made in certain quarters that there has been confusion when L K Advani was the PM candidate and Narendra Modi's name was brought up midway...do you believe this was a factor?

Jaswant Singh: No it wasn't...I don't believe this is a factor...I don't think there was ever can any confusion and I don't think there is any even now any confusion...about the centrality of the leadership I think Advani was projected as leader by the party knowingly, deliberately, determinantly as PM candidate.

Barkha Dutt: But what about all those who brought up Modi's name?

Jaswant Singh: I think the industrial community really did it...it wasn't so much the political community...

Barkha Dutt: But what about several of the BJP leaders mentioning Modi as a future candidate?

Jaswant Singh: I wasn't really necessary talking about the future when we haven't addressed the present...

Barkha Dutt: There are people like Sudheendra Kulkarni's article...believed to be close to LK Advani...wrote a very long piece in Tehelka magazine...making several different points...(a) that Modi's naming coming up was an issue...and (b) he also believed that the RSS...the parent ideological body of the BJP...also needed to introspect...Do you believe that the RSS has too much of a stranglehold over the BJP?

Jaswant Singh: I came to this article only at one step removed...and I know that my distinguished colleague Sushma Swaraj has already refuted this and he says he's representing his own views...they are not the party's views...and I also know that Advani has disassociated himself from these views...that Sudheendra holds certain views on the RSS...are his views.

Barkha Dutt: When you spoke about the BJP being a party of the current...how much of influence should the RSS have over BJP's own decisions? Whether it comes to the party president? Sir there was a time when they didn't want you as finance minister...

Jaswant Singh: No, I don't know what you're talking about...this is a matter that has come up on several occasions...and it has been sufficiently clarified by the RSS and the leadership of the RSS...that the BJP is the political organisation which a number of members who originally belonged to the RSS...but the BJP shall govern its own destiny...BJP shall stand up or not stand up on the decisions that it makes...and it must account for the decisions that it makes...because the number of bodies that the RSS has now spawned...are so numerous that in practical physical terms...it can't involve itself in the day to day function of all those bodies...in fact the reverse is the reality...that the BJP is a kind of a...political educator... (Barkha: Of the RSS) Yes because the RSS is only social body.

Barkha Dutt: When there are groups like the VHP and you juxtapose them with your statement...that the BJP needs to belong to the present...do you believe that some of the extreme elements of the Sangh Parivar have taken away from the BJP acquiring a modern image?

Jaswant Singh: It's possible...some of what you call the extreme elements have dented this particular aspect...and the BJP will have to address this accept and does address it.

Barkha Dutt: When you spoke on clarity on issue of Hindutva...do you think it means that leaders like Narendra Modi represents hard face/old fashioned face of Hindutva?

Jaswant Singh: I don't think so...I don't think I understand the word, though it has become current in the media...what is hard Hindutva? or soft Hindutva? or for that matter what is Hindutva?

Barkha Dutt: So what is it? The BJP has defined it for so long now and now we've forgotten...

Jaswant Singh: Not it hasn't...the BJP hasn't said, 'We are representatives of Hindutva'...they have spoken only for the need for an identity which is based on Hindu thought and the Hindu social ethos.

Barkha Dutt: As somebody analysing what's gone wrong...what do you say about factionalism within...different groups airing out their ideas...we saw an article by Jaitley, Kulkarni and various party leaders saying that should not have happened...do you believe today that factionalism is a problem in BJP?

Jaswant Singh: Factionalism is a problem of Indian democracy frankly...you can't only charge the BJP with it...I know for a fact since I have now been with the BJP since its origin...from the very day the BJP came into existence in 1980...and actually the first political party I joined was the Janata Party in 1977...but now I'm being autobiographical...when it comes to evolution of the BJP...to look at it as you put it...do you think factionalism has afflicted us? When we have had no expectations of office...then there was no factionalism...factionalism is an ailment that begins to afflict all political parties...whether Communist, Congress or BJP...the minute the taste of office is on your tongue...you can't blame the political party...there has to be a recognition that the lure of office is a divider...I am researching for a book I am currently doing...1937 elections in UP...it was CM of UP then...late Govind Ballabh Panth...and the governor of UP...I read his letter it's vastly educated...he's writing to Govind Ballabh Panth about factionalism in Congress Party in 1937...it's fascinating.

Barkha Dutt: You said today there is no issue to the centrality of Advani's leaderhsip...yet we expect at the year end Advani to step down...as he had offered to do after the party's loss...does party need a big overhaul in terms of new leaders?

Jaswant Singh: Does the party needs to look at itself? Yes...does the party need to replace Advani?...no...why doesn't it need to do so? because I think the party must evolve into a succession...it must not arrive at a succession because of an event...the event is a loss of an election...therefore you must change? I don't think that is correct.

Barkha Dutt: Do you believe there should be a time frame for this sort of issue?

Jaswant Singh: No time frame as such...but the succession in political parties...unlike Congress political party there is no succession there...it's a family lineage...there has to be/will be a succession...distinguished Communist leader Jyoti Basu is replaced by others...this will happen...but you can't force or retard the pace of succession.

Barkha Dutt: Do you believe in a sense when a Murli Manohar Joshi gets up that he could be a potential leader of opposition do you believe there are many potential leaders of opposition? Am I speaking with one?

Jaswant Singh: No...you're not...I am not...because I know what I want from life...I know my potential and limitations...and I know what I want even after politics as such...

Barkha Dutt: You did attend a core group meeting...did you express with candour what ails the BJP today?

Jaswant Singh: I have always conveyed tried to convey things within party circles with candour...but with consideration for other members' feelings...it's a habit which army left with me, and hasn't gone...

Barkha Dutt: What is the central area of weakness for the BJP today?

Jaswant Singh: Ah the central area...I wish I could engage that (points with finger).

Barkha Dutt: What are the few issues?

Jaswant Singh: That's what central party leadership is engaged in...(to find that out))...after this core meeting there will be a meeting of the officer bearers... after these meetings, some idea/conclusion will emerge...

Barkha Dutt: When you look at your party what do you want to change?

Jaswant Singh: We need to address ourselves... to be party that is current...and addresses the challenges of tomorrow...

Barkha Dutt: We know you've been working on a book about Mohd Ali Jinnah...isn't that controversial considering Advani?

Jaswant Singh: Why should it be controversial? My research focused on what caused partition of my country...at the time of partition the rationale was if you divide the country, peace will arrive...but with partition, peace has abandoned us (emotional) so that is what has ignited my research... I am glad I have run down this path...hope the book meets with a degree of acceptance...

Barkha Dutt: You're not worried how BJP will respond? It is considered a hot potato subject...

Jaswant Singh: Do you realise that of his 47 odd years of his active political life...he spent 46 in India...and spent only one in Pakistan...he was at one time, called by Gopal Krishna and Naidu, the ambassador of Hindu-Muslim unity... how did he become Quaid-e-Azam of Pakistan? Only person I know who was simultaneously president of all India Congress and the Indian-Muslim league...

Barkha Dutt: In conclusion do you think that the idea of accountability needs to be fixed?

Jaswant Singh: I don't think we need to focus on individuals...that would take away from the centrality of the problem...we need to focus on issues.

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