(Image courtesy: Pallava Bagla)

Dr. Urs Mall, is flying an instrument on Chandrayaan-1 which will map the minerals of the moon and give a very broad picture of what lies on the surface. The instrument called Near Infra-Red Spectrometer (SIR-2) has been fabricated in the Max Planck Institute of Germany.

Pallava Bagla: So Urs, what are you doing on Chandrayaan and what is the instrument?
Urs Mall: Well our instrument, this is the SIR 2 instrument

Pallava Bagla: And you are flying one on Chandrayaan. On this model you have some .
Urs Mall: Somewhere around here the instrument SIR2 is located. Sertu instrument is a spectrometer. The spectrum either measures the sound's light which is reflected on the moon's surface. The light which is reflected is being recorded in our instrument and we use this reflected light to be able to identify the minerals that

Pallava Bagla: Oh, so you are essentially mapping the moon for minerals?
Urs Mall: Yes, correct. We would like to know the composition of the rocks, you know, but we are only able, with this instrument, to identify them. Topmost level of the surface of

Pallava Bagla: Oh, so you can't penetrate?
Urs Mall: No, we cannot penetrate. We just, you know, get a smooth map of the

Pallava Bagla: Surface
Urs Mall: Really the very thing, surface. The clue of the instrument is

Pallava Bagla: So what minerals can you what are you hoping to find?
Urs Mall: Well, you know we have rocks of course

Pallava Bagla: Yes, several hundred kilos
Urs Mall: So people, always this thing you know, now why are you doing this thing again

Pallava Bagla: Yeah
Urs Mall: Well, the point is, imagine you are mapping these points on the moon on the earth and you are looking where you have mapped. What you could find out is you would have taken samples, you know, once from Europe, twice you would have planted in the oceans on the earth. So from these few sites you actually want to get the feel, how the earth looks like. That's really impossible. Now you can say that the moon is a much simpler structure so it is not as complicated as the earth, but of course, the best you could do is actually to bring back more samples. But this is a cost issue. So what you can do is you can remote sense the surface and nearly create those maps.

Pallava Bagla: So you are going to create maps where there is aluminum, where there is calcium, where there is iron maybe there is not so much iron..
Urs Mall: No, you are mentioning now elements. What we are doing is the minerals is, you also have instrumentation on the Chandrayaan which is just to pure elemental composition. We are really looking at the mineral .

Pallava Bagla: So what minerals are you looking for? Can you name some?
Urs Mall: Yes. We to look, for example, find the olivine.. you know, how much olivine is there, where is it

Pallava Bagla: So how does it help somebody in India, or somebody in Germany that you find that mineral?
Urs Mall: Well, what you have to keep in mind is you cannot look at the moon by itself. You have to look at the moon as part of the earth-moon system. This is a finally system. You cannot just take one away. So by looking at the moon you will learn much more about the earth. So it is not only the academic interest about you know now being able to list compositions, elements or minerals, you want to do much more. You want to hear something about the history of the earth.

Pallava Bagla: Oh so you are going to look at the evolution, infer about the evolution of the whole universe from this?
Urs Mall: Not the whole universe, but at least the sole of the solar system. And of course you can look back, what happened at some date long time ago, at the very early part of the formation, because the wonderful thing is by the active subject, the earth is such an active place. The moon is a relative, you know, let us call it quiet.

Pallava Bagla: Yes, there is no erosion there.
Urs Mall: No talking about non-tectonic, I just call it quiet. So the fascinating thing is you have a wonderful archive for the history of all our solar system. So the challenge now for all of us is actually to learn how to read what is recorded there. And this is an extremely difficult job. You remember until very recently we always said there is no water on the moon. Now our American colleagues said they have identified samples. There is a little bit water in those rocks. So it is a question also on technology, and the advancement, you know how much you are able really to decipher all what is stored there.

Pallava Bagla: So you are excited about it?
Urs Mall: Yeah, very excited, very; because you know for us in Europe this gives us the possibility to join this, you know the people who want to learn more about the earth-moon system- because in Europe, because in Germany, where I am coming from, we do not have a lunar program in place. Chandrayaan is also wonderful because you know it is ..

Pallava Bagla: So would you have been able to fly your instrument if Chandrayaan were not there?
Urs Mall: No. absolutely not. This is part of our excitement. Chandrayaan-1 has given us the opportunity to fly the instrumentation which we have developed now in a record time. You know we would have to wait a couple of years probably until we would have had this chance. On the other hand we are preparing the SMART1, the ESA mission, you know for going into lunar sites. So now this has come wonderfully together, you know, and we are able and happy to contribute this payload to your satellite.

Pallava Bagla: So have you learnt something from ISRO, has it been a two way street?
Urs Mall: Absolutely, absolutely. You know, coming from Europe we are of course used to our routine procedures; so coming now to east we have to look at completely different way. I mean you really have to admit you have done in a record time. Assembly of a full you know, spacecraft, and in a very short amount integrated all the instrumentation, all that is needed to fly to the moon. I mean this has been an amazing achievement. So I think the ..

Pallava Bagla: But I thought the Indian bureaucracy is what people worry about. Has that bothered you?
Urs Mall: No, actually we are much more used to paperwork in science, in instrumentation providing so, so this has been in many ways, you know more flexibility, less recording on paper and more dialogue. So this has been a very positive experience for us, but I am pretty sure because I also have some Indian colleagues coming to my institution, the Max Planck Institute in Germany and they are. So I think it is a very good way now to bring the best from both sides together.

Pallava Bagla: And are you hoping to collaborate with India on other missions?
Urs Mall: Absolutely. I think what I see in the response from my Indian colleagues visiting me and from us being here, I see both sides are looking for a future space exploration.

Pallava Bagla: And what next? Any missions together planned?
Urs Mall: No. there is of course you know, let us see how successful we are in achieving all these goals, but Chandrayaan 2, has been given the money by the Indian parliament to go ahead..

Pallava Bagla: Yes sir, over a hundred million dollars
Urs Mall: So we are actually, we will see you know whether we can contribute a part of ourselves or instrumentation

Pallava Bagla: What happens if Chandrayaan fails and doesn't go to the moon? What happens then?
Urs Mall: Well, let us first say that we do not expect that, and, on the other hand, one has to always be prepared. These are highly complex systems which despite all the testing you can never be completely sure.

Pallava Bagla: It's an experiment.
Urs Mall: Well, we usually try to deliver experiments which we have, where we feel fine and comfortably and we feel comfortably here that you know that we will reach the lunar orbit. Another issue is of course will it be possible to operate the instrument during the full tenure. That is another issue. We will see.

Pallava Bagla: So you've been liking your visits to India. Have you
Urs Mall: We have had , you know, first of all I must admit that in those visit we know that ISRO clean rooms better than Bangalore, so we are driving by night, going here to work, so our teams have not had a lot of off time because we had to focus very much on what we are doing here. But what has been very interesting has been the whole cultural exchange. For us it is a complete different world and these cultural discussions which we had with our colleagues, when we had time, made us think you know, reflect on how we are as human beings.

Pallava Bagla: Any challenges you faced?
Urs Mall: No, not really. I mean except that time schedule was really, you know, I mean compressed. That was what, I would say, the biggest challenge.

Pallava Bagla: ISRO was demanding of you?
Urs Mall: ISRO has been extremely demanding you know, in terms of, from start of the project to now.

Pallava Bagla: You like that or you would have liked more time?
Urs Mall: We could have used a little bit more time in terms of off testing. But this is also you know, you are having more people then we are, operating this, far fewer people, and this is of course a natural explanation why you are, you at the end, you know, speeding out amazingly.